401 replies to this topic

[TopRay]

@ Rip Snorgan
As I said i'm not a business man so I wont argue with your knowledge.
I will however ask a question and this is probably closer to what I was trying to say and that is, Surely good business relies on trust? and in my humble opinion this has the potential to damage that trust not just immediately but also with peoples future purchases.
I do feel that this may effect future promotions in a negative way(even with people who are currently happy) in that potential buyers of future "Exclusive" content will hold off in the hope that a few months down the line that same "Exclusive" content will be half price.

Edited by TopRay, 04 February 2015 - 06:31 PM.

[Ken Harkin]

Dear PGI, thank you.

[Havyek]

Rip Snorgan, on 04 February 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

Here's the thing. Some of us are Founders in spirit, but through the whims of fortune, had to miss the deadlines for Founders packs. If you look at my registration date, you'll see I've been here since virtually the beginning, but as it happened, had just quit my job of 16 years, to move my wife and 3 kids to California, to care for my Grandmother, right BEFORE Founders packs became available.

By the time I found a new job, Founders packs were no longer available.

Since then, I have purchased the top tier of every available pack (except the Gold Khan, no way I was getting that one past my wife ), and early enough to get every single early bird bonus except for the month one reward on the Phoenix Overlord pack. And you bet your last banana I'd buy a top tier Founders pack if they made them available again, since the ONLY reason I didn't when they were available was that I just didn't have that kind of money.

My point is, how do we know that many of these folks who missed the "Loyalty" rewards aren't in a similar position? Is "not being broke" the only measure of "Loyalty" PGI should consider?

I know if they made Phoenix packs available to newcomers, I'd care not a single iota, since I fail to see how it affects my enjoyment of my own content.

Just some food for thought.

It's a terrible situation to be in, and I completely understand. I don't begrudge anyone for not spending money that they can't afford to. It's the smart decision and one I would have made.

That being said, it still doesn't change the fact that some of us paid a lot of money at a time that we didn't even have concept art of what the game was going to be, let alone in-game footage, trailers and players telling of their experiences.

You would have supported the game in its infancy had you been able to, and that's great.

Some of us did.

Edited by Havyek, 04 February 2015 - 06:36 PM.

[Bruce13F4O]

Thank you PGI

[Neutron IX]

TopRay, on 04 February 2015 - 06:26 PM, said:

@ Rip Snorgan
As I said i'm not a business man so I wont argue with your knowledge.
I will however ask a question and this is probably closer to what I was trying to say and that is, Surely good business relies on trust? and in my humble opinion this has the potential to damage that trust not just immediately but also with peoples future purchases.
I do feel that this may effect future promotions in a negative way(even with people who are currently happy) in that potential buyers of future "Exclusive" content will hold off in the hope that a few months down the line that same "Exclusive" content will be half price.

TopRay, I appreciate your style of communication, even if we may not see completely eye to eye on the issue at hand.

You mention trust, and yes, trust can be important. But there's something I say at work all the time, and that is, "Numbers don't lie".

"Trust" is an elusive concept, that will mean different things to different people. There may be many who don't "trust" McDonalds to have their best health interests in mind, but do "trust" McDonalds to provide a quick, cheap lunch on the road, and still spend their money there. There may be people who don't "trust" Comcast to have their best interests as a consumer in mind on things like Net Neutrality, but "trust" Comcast to provide a better and more stable service than AT&T, and so continue to spend their money with them. And so on and so on.

In this case, you might not "trust" PGI to do what you consider best on a promotion like this, but you "trust" that they make a game you enjoy playing. Trust is an abstract, and can be complex, even within the mind of one consumer for one company.

But at the end of the day, numbers don't lie. The REAL best metrics of "trust", are, "how many people spend money with you?", or "how many people access your service on a repeat basis?". Even on this issue, the response seems mixed. And I feel like for every "WTF?" post I see about this, I also see a heartfelt "Thanks PGI!", so it's really difficult to get a real handle on what the "playerbase" REALLY thinks here, but I suspect, at the end of the day, the metrics I mentioned, will come out dramatically in favor of the idea that in this case, PGI made a sound business decision, and, as I said, numbers don't lie.

[Neutron IX]

Havyek, on 04 February 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

It's a terrible situation to be in, and I completely understand. I don't begrudge anyone for not spending money that they can't afford to. It's the smart decision and one I would have made.

That being said, it still doesn't change the fact that some of us paid a lot of money at a time that we didn't even have concept art of what the game was going to be, let alone in-game footage, trailers and players telling of their experiences.

You would have supported the game in its infancy had you been able to, and that's great.

Some of us did.

I am glad you were in a position to support the game financially in it's infancy, I am, since it is definitely part of the success of the game.

But again, we're not strictly talking about "support" of the game in that case, since I was definitely supporting the game in every way I had at my disposal at that time. I was talking it up to my friends who aren't lifetime Battletech junkies like myself, I was lurking the forums like a madman, and even posting occasionally (I had a heartfelt discussion with Garth way back in the day that I strongly believe led to cockpit view being as smooth as it is, since I suffer from motion sickness).

So again, does it mean that simply because I was not financially able to support at that time, that I wasn't a "Loyal" supporter of the game?

If the only "support" that counts is financial, as far as "Loyalty" rewards go, then why wouldn't it be fair, for example, to offer a "best reward ever" to a brand new player who has never heard of Battletech at all, but shows up with a $25,000 check to PGI because he's dating a players mother? What does that mean to all the people like yourself who've been around for far longer, and been far more devoted to the game, but who may not be able to write a $25,000 check (I'm not saying you couldn't, since I don't know, but if you could, would you be interested in a business opportunity? ).

I'm simply saying, if financial support is the only "loyalty" worthy of "reward" in the game, then how is that not "Pay To Win"?

To be clear, I'm not saying that financial support shouldn't be acknowledged, or even rewarded, since from a business perspective, it's invaluable. Simply that, as players, we sometimes put it up on this pedestal that I don't find particularly appropriate in the larger context, as though somehow it is the ONLY thing that matters, and in a crowded, market that just isn't true.

[Kalamity27]

AdamBaines, on 04 February 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

[FirstWorldProblems]

OMG!!!! DUPLICATES!!! HOW DARE THEY GIVE ME FREE STUFF THAT CLUTTERS UP MY MECH BAY!!!

[/FirstWorldProblems]

Thanks for the free stuff PGI.

Thank you PGI for the love.

[Havyek]

Rip Snorgan, on 04 February 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

I am glad you were in a position to support the game financially in it's infancy, I am, since it is definitely part of the success of the game.

But again, we're not strictly talking about "support" of the game in that case, since I was definitely supporting the game in every way I had at my disposal at that time. I was talking it up to my friends who aren't lifetime Battletech junkies like myself, I was lurking the forums like a madman, and even posting occasionally (I had a heartfelt discussion with Garth way back in the day that I strongly believe led to cockpit view being as smooth as it is, since I suffer from motion sickness).

So again, does it mean that simply because I was not financially able to support at that time, that I wasn't a "Loyal" supporter of the game?

If the only "support" that counts is financial, as far as "Loyalty" rewards go, then why wouldn't it be fair, for example, to offer a "best reward ever" to a brand new player who has never heard of Battletech at all, but shows up with a $25,000 check to PGI because he's dating a players mother? What does that mean to all the people like yourself who've been around for far longer, and been far more devoted to the game, but who may not be able to write a $25,000 check (I'm not saying you couldn't, since I don't know, but if you could, would you be interested in a business opportunity? ).

I'm simply saying, if financial support is the only "loyalty" worthy of "reward" in the game, then how is that not "Pay To Win"?

To be clear, I'm not saying that financial support shouldn't be acknowledged, or even rewarded, since from a business perspective, it's invaluable. Simply that, as players, we sometimes put it up on this pedestal that I don't find particularly appropriate in the larger context, as though somehow it is the ONLY thing that matters, and in a crowded, market that just isn't true.

Oh you're absolutely right, there's no reason that the highest contribution should, or shouldn't be rewarded.

But that's really the only way for a business to determine who has and hasn't supported them (outside of special and extraordinary cases). If someone came in and saw the game and was blown away by it and wanted to dump 25k on it, then expected a Platinum Dire Wolf with a 75% c-bill and XP bonus, would they "deserve" it because they have a bigger wallet than the rest of the community? Certainly not. Would he get one because that's what he was promised if he spent 25k? Absolutely.

Maybe I'm still a little jaded from the time when Founders were promised "special" 'Mechs, which ended up being replaced by Hero 'Mechs that had better bonuses. Now it seems like every package out there is being rewarded in some form or another.

Maybe I'm just reminded of a line from the Incredibles: "When everyone is super, no one is"

Maybe this is the case of too much of a good thing? Maybe I'm a little irked that everyone is getting free stuff after they bought what they were advertised, while Founders paid for a promise that may or may not have been kept, I don't know really.

Edited by Havyek, 05 February 2015 - 09:39 PM.

[Alex Morgaine]

Ok so, founder top set guaranteed the first bonus set (minus the 100 matches= free ah but even the little I play was enough), I got the top resistance pack, and just got urbana™. Does that mean I get 1 extra set, 2(lol cw spam?), or no extra sets since i got em before the announcement?

I like the designs, don't get me wrong...but um... that's a lot of the same mech. Well if I do, I need to look into stock mech Mondays :3

Edited by Frosty Brand, 04 February 2015 - 07:31 PM.

[Alex Morgaine]

Eh either way incoming more non mattered mechs XD

[Domenoth]

Frosty Brand, on 04 February 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

Does that mean I get 1 extra set, 2(lol cw spam?), or no extra sets since i got em before the announcement?

I believe you get an extra set because you bought Urbies. Urbies weren't on sale before the start date so if you purchased them at all, it had to be within the required time.

That's how I read it at least.

[Neutron IX]

Havyek, on 04 February 2015 - 07:26 PM, said:

Oh you're absolutely right, there's no reason that the highest contribution should, or shouldn't be rewarded.

But that's really the only way for a business to determine who has and hasn't supported them (outside of special and extraordinary cases). If someone came in and saw the game and was blown away by it and wanted to dump 25k on it, then expected a Platinum Dire Wolf with a 75% c-bill and XP bonus, would they "deserve" it because they have a bigger wallet than the rest of the community? Certainly not. Would he get one because that's what he was promised if he spent 25k? Absolutely.

Maybe I'm still a little jaded from the time when Founders were promised "special" 'Mechs, which ended up being replaced by Hero 'Mechs that had better bonuses. Now it seems like every package out there is being rewarded in some form or another.

Maybe I'm just reminded of a line from the Incredibles: "When everyone is super, no one is"

Maybe this is the case of too much of a good thing? Maybe I'm a little irked that everyone is getting free stuff after they bought what there were advertised, while Founders paid for a promise that may or may not have been kept, I don't know really.

Fair enough. And well put.

Even though I don't agree conceptually, I've appreciated the well thought out, and respectful nature of your posts.

Reasoned discourse sometimes feels like a lost art on the internet.

[Sagamore]

Still kicking myself for getting the top tier pack of Resistance when the sale first launched (bought in November). I guess from now on I should always buy the lowest tier to lock in monthly rewards and then upgrade at the end in case there are ever promos like this again.

I already had the (L) mechs from my top tier Overlord but kind of feel left out now with the top-tier Resistance when that shouldn't really be the case. I've spent $60+$100+$80+$100+$80 = $420 on this game so I feel a bit entitled to get my 2nd loyalty mechs

[PheonixStorm]

Bront, on 04 February 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

GOliath and Scorpion are HG/Macross.

PGI has also said it would be a major coding feat to make a quad work in the game.

Goliath and Scorpion are NOT Macross/Robotech, they are from the same anime as the (unseen) Shadow Hawk/Griffin/Wolverine if memory serves. So, as the originally quoted poster said... no issue with HG

[Neutron IX]

Sagamore, on 04 February 2015 - 08:03 PM, said:

Still kicking myself for getting the top tier pack of Resistance when the sale first launched (bought in November). I guess from now on I should always buy the lowest tier to lock in monthly rewards and then upgrade at the end in case there are ever promos like this again.

I already had the (L) mechs from my top tier Overlord but kind of feel left out now with the top-tier Resistance when that shouldn't really be the case. I've spent $60+$100+$80+$100+$80 = $420 on this game so I feel a bit entitled to get my 2nd loyalty mechs

That's how I do it. I buy them all one tier at a time (mostly because it's easier to justify spending the money on a video game to my wife that way, instead of in the big lump sum allotments ), paying for the first tier in the first month, and the last tier just before the first package content goes live. Wasn't precisely to stay on top of tier rewards, but it has so far worked out that way.

Plus, the domestic peace is preserved, so...High-5 PGI!

[Ripper X]

I qualified to get all 3 Anniversary Mechs months ago. Missed out getting duplicate Anniversary Mechs since I purchased Man O War package on December 11th. If I had waited till December 17th I would have gotten all 3 Anniversary Mechs again. I coulda used another King Crab. I am sure that there are people in the same boat as I am. We kind of gotten overlooked.

[Wildstreak]

I have decided not to go top tier on anything until March earliest.
I just do not see the point of having a second Centurion-AH sitting in my bay area.

[focuspark]

um wow... lot of duplicate mechs that I cannot sell for c-bills. that's cool. thanks

[focuspark]

TopRay, on 04 February 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

I have made several post to this topic already regarding this matter and i have even read all of the other posts too.
Now i'm not going to discuss the rights and wrongs of the anniversary reward or discuss whether or not the people who feel (insert appropriate) are also right or wrong to feel the way they do.
However i do feel that there is an Elephant in the room and that Elephant is that the decision to do this HAS pissed off a lot of people and a lot of people ARE pissed off by this decision (rightly or wrongly is irrelevant).
As many people have already pointed out this game is "free to play", but it relies on people willing to spend money,
This decision has annoyed many of the very people it relies on (again rightly or wrongly is irrelevant) and for this reason alone i fail to see how that can be good for ANYONE.
I am not a business man but i cant imagine that making a decision that upsets your paying customers for whatever reason is at any time a good idea.

yeah ... god forbid they reward their best customers. shame on them?

[Soul Tribunal]

So if I qualified , but Didn't get the mechs, do I talk to support about that? Or just wait it out for a bit..

-ST