63 replies to this topic

[JadeTimberwolf]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 February 2015 - 03:54 AM, said:

Orion IIC
Hunchback IIC
Jenner IIC
Stone Rhino
Kraken
Atlas II
Black Python
Shadow Hawk IIC
Griffin IIC
Locust IIC

Were made long before Omnis.

Fixed, Jenner IIc has only been in production for 8 years some Omnis approx 200 years.

Edited by JadeTimberwolf, 06 February 2015 - 03:58 AM.

[Chocowolf Sradac]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 05 February 2015 - 06:22 PM, said:

The Clans do need more options. Timberwolf, Stormcrow gets boring both for clan and those playing against.

It does however after the multiple nerfs that has made many of the low list of clan mechs are even remotely viable both those mechs continue to be the clan's best option at the moment. I would love to see either existing mechs becoming more viable or more options for the clans to alleviate this problem. I'm a firm believer that if they were set back towards their original state it would not require the need of quirks for some mechs to battle the outrageous clan heat and ghost heat

[Joe Mallad]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 February 2015 - 03:54 AM, said:

Orion IIC
Hunchback IIC
Jenner IIC
Stone Rhino
Kraken
Atlas II
Black Python
Shadow Hawk IIC
Griffin IIC
Locust IIC

Were made long before Omnis.

oh true and if PGI really wanted to give the Clans mechs that are not omni and could swap engines and so on, this would be them. The 3 I was referring to was the last 3 omni mech of the initial invasion push... Fire Moth, Viper and Executioner.

[Chocowolf Sradac]

Yoseful Mallad, on 06 February 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

oh true and if PGI really wanted to give the Clans mechs that are not omni and could swap engines and so on, this would be them. The 3 I was referring to was the last 3 omni mech of the initial invasion push... Fire Moth, Viper and Executioner.

Well we already know how much of an uproar there would be if the firemoth was added so we can pretty much rule that one out despite how much it would actually help the clans though a viper or executioner would be nice

[Joseph Mallan]

Yoseful Mallad, on 06 February 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

oh true and if PGI really wanted to give the Clans mechs that are not omni and could swap engines and so on, this would be them. The 3 I was referring to was the last 3 omni mech of the initial invasion push... Fire Moth, Viper and Executioner.

Ok I see where you were coming from. 3 more Omnis would help a little. Adding teh "I'm a Clan loser Mechs" would add more verity, and flexibility. And I want a Stone Rhino for "someday".

Thanks for the correction JT!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 06 February 2015 - 04:03 AM.

[JadeTimberwolf]

Sorry if I came off a-holeish, ensuring correct information is one of my pet-peeves, reason number 1 why I have edited almost every single one of my posts, I constantly double check what I have posted to make sure I didn't put in mis-information.

I too would love the Stone Rhino, because it is my favorite Clan Assault Mech and in my opinion better than any other Clan Assault Mech, granted I know if we math-hammered it we would find some that are on par or better.

[Joe Mallad]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 February 2015 - 04:02 AM, said:

Ok I see where you were coming from. 3 more Omnis would help a little. Adding teh "I'm a Clan loser Mechs" would add more verity, and flexibility. And I want a Stone Rhino for "someday".

Thanks for the correction JT!

its not the right time line yet but one clan mech I really want is the Kodiac

[Joseph Mallan]

Yoseful Mallad, on 06 February 2015 - 04:10 AM, said:

its not the right time line yet but one clan mech I really want is the Kodiac

Production year 3001!

[Johnny Z]

+1 for more Omni mechs in game. The Clans really do need more mech variety.

[Lily from animove]

JadeTimberwolf, on 06 February 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:

Of the IIc I feel that the Locust is a superior Light in comparison to most light OmniMechs (Fire Moth being the exception) in terms of mediums I feel that the Shadowhawk holds superiority over any medium OmniMech. Heavies, it is my opinion that the Rifleman matches the quality of the Timberwolf which is superior in my opinion to other heavy Mechs, and for Assaults the Warhammer and the Pheonix Hawk outclass most OmniMechs. While speaking of assaults another BattleMech (Not a IIc though) that I feel outclasses OmniMechs but this one with no equal is the Stone Rhino.

Rifleman is much liek a jeager, not even close to a thread for a timber, and ohhh god, that speed, even with an Xl. just horrible.

Warhammer, is a bit of a downgraded Warhawk (standard engine costs it a lot tonnage), yet if it does have at least 3 or 4 E hardpoints in the sidetorsi, it may be an interesting choice for a tanky energyboat. But will porbably suffer a similar issue as the gargoyle: much tonnage dedicated into the engine. But this at leats comes with the chance to Zombie and its higher survivability.

The Phoenix hawk, has the agrgoyle issue, it puts too much tonnage into an engine, yet unlike the gargoyle it does at leats have FF + ES. But the ballistic variant is still too short for punch, only the iCC-3 may be a valid working Energyboat for some wubbening with C-LPL's

Actually if you want to bring new mechs that are not DOA, you really have to judge them objective, just an optinion is not going to work the way you think.

I have my personal reasons for these beliefs and they are my personal opinions so they are not up for debate. There will be no analyzing them as I am making the point that people will have particular opinions and those opinions are what will drive them more then hypothetical math.

IIC locust has the issue of rather similar locus shaped issues, that si a fact as it is the issue the regular locus has. Further it will have many E hardpoints, basically good, but soomed with the too hot running Clanenergyweapons, so the IIC locust will never have enough valid cooling, it will still be outclassed by FS or other 6E mechs by the IS with their more heatefficient weapons.

Shadowhawk, good hardpoints, but standard engine, so looses some punch + needed coolign by lower weapon tonnage. And it has the unsuited human shape meaning the scr's hitboxes (and hardpointlocations) will trump the IIC hawk.

[JadeTimberwolf]

Lily from animove, on 06 February 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

IIC locust has the issue of rather similar locus shaped issues, that si a fact as it is the issue the regular locus has. Further it will have many E hardpoints, basically good, but soomed with the too hot running Clanenergyweapons, so the IIC locust will never have enough valid cooling, it will still be outclassed by FS or other 6E mechs by the IS with their more heatefficient weapons.

Shadowhawk, good hardpoints, but standard engine, so looses some punch + needed coolign by lower weapon tonnage. And it has the unsuited human shape meaning the scr's hitboxes (and hardpointlocations) will trump the IIC hawk.

Ok I'll humor you just for the hell of it. For starters these are all BattleMechs which means that the type of armor they have is variable (Standard or FF) same with Inner Structure (Standard or Endo) and Engines are Swap-able and that alone puts them a step above OmniMechs.

Locust IIc, it's strength does not lay in the weapons it carries just as any true light Mech it's strength is in it's top speed. Starts out with a 200 rating standard engine, now how about we swap that out for a 240 xl. The standard weapon payload is pretty much er small lasers which when used right can be highly effective. Then there are the variants such as the IIc 2 which instead of the small lasers mounts 2 streaks. Both of those variants make for good Light Hunters, Medium Hunters and Scouts and can if Masc'd match the speed of the Fire Moth which receives a Masc by default.

Shadowhawk IIc, Standard Engine means nothing as it can be swapped out for an XL if you so desire, the standard variant mounts a better Steakboat ability than the Scarecrow with 4 Missile Hardpoints and 4 energy Hardpoints to back that up should it last long enough to run out of ammo meaning once the missiles are used up the Mech is still good to fight. and since you are able to swap out Standard Engine for Clan XL you can add in extra DHS for the cooling. The current Hitboxes of the IS Shadowhawk are not bat hitboxes, not as spidery as the SCR but not so bad that the SCR gains that much of an advantage, remember those leg boxes on the SCR are it's weakness.

Rifleman IIc, Stock standard variant vs TBR-Prime stock. Rifleman Alpha with the main armament generates 40 heat (can't calculate Ghost Heat) DHS dissipates 38 TBR Prime Alpha with main armament generates 50 heat (again can't calculate Ghost Heat) DHS dissipates 34, so what were you saying about not even close? Rifleman goes over by 2, TBR goes over by 16 and while the TBR has a greater potential damage to the enemy it also has a greater potential damage to itself.

Warhammer IIc, yes it has 4 Torso E Hardpoints as well as 1 Head. He has enough DHS to fire both ERPPCs it comes with every CD and have DHS to spare plus a high mounted M location makes it considerably better than the Warhawk. Again Armor Structure and Engine are changeable if one so desires.

Pheonis Hawk IIc, seems your main issue here is the engine, I can't stress it enough the Engines on these don't suffer the OmniMech drawback of being locked in so if you want to downgrade for a better weapon loadout without sacrificing Armor Value you can.

Objectively there are many reasons these Mechs are not DOA, and objectively speaking even with their locked hardpoints they are as versatile and in some cases more versatile when compared to OmniMechs. Now as for as opinion, it seems that opinion goes along way in getting a Mech in the game otherwise the UrbanMech wouldn't be getting released as if you want to talk about a Mech that is a fodder Mech that is it.

[nehebkau]

IS needs more CW mech options.



What I gathered from the OP's post is that: Give us more mechs that we can win with and dominate the IS cause I am tired of playing the same 3 best mechs in the game over and over.

Edited by nehebkau, 06 February 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[JadeTimberwolf]

nehebkau, on 06 February 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

IS needs more CW mech options.



What I gathered from the OP's post is that: Give us more mechs that we can win with and dominate the IS cause I am tired of playing the same 3 best mechs in the game over and over.

not sure if that is OPs intent but I interpreted it as the range of Clan Mechs needs to be more diverse and balanced than what it currently is.

[CutterWolf]

JadeTimberwolf, on 06 February 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

Ok I'll humor you just for the hell of it. For starters these are all BattleMechs which means that the type of armor they have is variable (Standard or FF) same with Inner Structure (Standard or Endo) and Engines are Swap-able and that alone puts them a step above OmniMechs.

Locust IIc, it's strength does not lay in the weapons it carries just as any true light Mech it's strength is in it's top speed. Starts out with a 200 rating standard engine, now how about we swap that out for a 240 xl. The standard weapon payload is pretty much er small lasers which when used right can be highly effective. Then there are the variants such as the IIc 2 which instead of the small lasers mounts 2 streaks. Both of those variants make for good Light Hunters, Medium Hunters and Scouts and can if Masc'd match the speed of the Fire Moth which receives a Masc by default.

Shadowhawk IIc, Standard Engine means nothing as it can be swapped out for an XL if you so desire, the standard variant mounts a better Steakboat ability than the Scarecrow with 4 Missile Hardpoints and 4 energy Hardpoints to back that up should it last long enough to run out of ammo meaning once the missiles are used up the Mech is still good to fight. and since you are able to swap out Standard Engine for Clan XL you can add in extra DHS for the cooling. The current Hitboxes of the IS Shadowhawk are not bat hitboxes, not as spidery as the SCR but not so bad that the SCR gains that much of an advantage, remember those leg boxes on the SCR are it's weakness.

Rifleman IIc, Stock standard variant vs TBR-Prime stock. Rifleman Alpha with the main armament generates 40 heat (can't calculate Ghost Heat) DHS dissipates 38 TBR Prime Alpha with main armament generates 50 heat (again can't calculate Ghost Heat) DHS dissipates 34, so what were you saying about not even close? Rifleman goes over by 2, TBR goes over by 16 and while the TBR has a greater potential damage to the enemy it also has a greater potential damage to itself.

Warhammer IIc, yes it has 4 Torso E Hardpoints as well as 1 Head. He has enough DHS to fire both ERPPCs it comes with every CD and have DHS to spare plus a high mounted M location makes it considerably better than the Warhawk. Again Armor Structure and Engine are changeable if one so desires.

Pheonis Hawk IIc, seems your main issue here is the engine, I can't stress it enough the Engines on these don't suffer the OmniMech drawback of being locked in so if you want to downgrade for a better weapon loadout without sacrificing Armor Value you can.

Objectively there are many reasons these Mechs are not DOA, and objectively speaking even with their locked hardpoints they are as versatile and in some cases more versatile when compared to OmniMechs. Now as for as opinion, it seems that opinion goes along way in getting a Mech in the game otherwise the UrbanMech wouldn't be getting released as if you want to talk about a Mech that is a fodder Mech that is it.

IIC Mech could not have swappable standard or XL PGI is not going to go down the "mix-tech" road, its Clan XL engines or nothing. Now if you want to suggest that those be swappable as in larger or smaller Clan XL engines that mite be something PGI could live with. Remember, this is about making it possible to get them into the game so please, lets keep the comments and suggestions to something PGI would be willing to do. And "yes" you are correct that my intent is to create more diversity and balance into the Clans to improve the game for everyone Clan & IS players alike.

[JadeTimberwolf]

What do you mean "Mix-Tech"? the swappable engine feature is not an Inner Sphere feature it is a BattleMech feature, something that is given up by OmniMechs in order to have Swappable Hardpoints. Some Clan BattleMechs have Standard Engines in one variant and Clan XL in another, an example of this is the Shadowhawk IIC, the standard variant has a Standard engine, however the IIc6 has an XL engine. I propose this to you here and now, any true warrior of Clan BattleMechs would never buy one if they were just OmniMechs without swappable hardpoints making your desire a wasted effort. If you want Clan BattleMechs then ask for Clan BattleMechs don't give an inch on their Lore abilities just don't ask for quirks.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

OK here is a simple but dramatic suggestion for improving mech balance in the Clan lineup:

Add even more and better Omnipods for the weaker mechs!
In particular, Ice Ferret, Nova, Summoner, Gargoyle.

The recent new Clan variants seemed to benefit the already good chassis but did not really lift the status of the weaker chassis enough.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 06 February 2015 - 09:52 PM.

[Ace Selin]

Even with new Clan mechs well see the Stormcrow, Madcat & Hellbringer dominate just as they do now.

[Coolant]

disagree with OP, how bout Clans just play some of the other clan mechs instead of Timberwolves and Scarecrows....

[Lily from animove]

JadeTimberwolf, on 06 February 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

Ok I'll humor you just for the hell of it. For starters these are all BattleMechs which means that the type of armor they have is variable (Standard or FF) same with Inner Structure (Standard or Endo) and Engines are Swap-able and that alone puts them a step above OmniMechs.

Locust IIc, it's strength does not lay in the weapons it carries just as any true light Mech it's strength is in it's top speed. Starts out with a 200 rating standard engine, now how about we swap that out for a 240 xl. The standard weapon payload is pretty much er small lasers which when used right can be highly effective. Then there are the variants such as the IIc 2 which instead of the small lasers mounts 2 streaks. Both of those variants make for good Light Hunters, Medium Hunters and Scouts and can if Masc'd match the speed of the Fire Moth which receives a Masc by default.

Shadowhawk IIc, Standard Engine means nothing as it can be swapped out for an XL if you so desire, the standard variant mounts a better Steakboat ability than the Scarecrow with 4 Missile Hardpoints and 4 energy Hardpoints to back that up should it last long enough to run out of ammo meaning once the missiles are used up the Mech is still good to fight. and since you are able to swap out Standard Engine for Clan XL you can add in extra DHS for the cooling. The current Hitboxes of the IS Shadowhawk are not bat hitboxes, not as spidery as the SCR but not so bad that the SCR gains that much of an advantage, remember those leg boxes on the SCR are it's weakness.

Rifleman IIc, Stock standard variant vs TBR-Prime stock. Rifleman Alpha with the main armament generates 40 heat (can't calculate Ghost Heat) DHS dissipates 38 TBR Prime Alpha with main armament generates 50 heat (again can't calculate Ghost Heat) DHS dissipates 34, so what were you saying about not even close? Rifleman goes over by 2, TBR goes over by 16 and while the TBR has a greater potential damage to the enemy it also has a greater potential damage to itself.

Warhammer IIc, yes it has 4 Torso E Hardpoints as well as 1 Head. He has enough DHS to fire both ERPPCs it comes with every CD and have DHS to spare plus a high mounted M location makes it considerably better than the Warhawk. Again Armor Structure and Engine are changeable if one so desires.

Pheonis Hawk IIc, seems your main issue here is the engine, I can't stress it enough the Engines on these don't suffer the OmniMech drawback of being locked in so if you want to downgrade for a better weapon loadout without sacrificing Armor Value you can.

Objectively there are many reasons these Mechs are not DOA, and objectively speaking even with their locked hardpoints they are as versatile and in some cases more versatile when compared to OmniMechs. Now as for as opinion, it seems that opinion goes along way in getting a Mech in the game otherwise the UrbanMech wouldn't be getting released as if you want to talk about a Mech that is a fodder Mech that is it.

you compare stock variants? wtf this is not even comparable. and you 2 steraks 2 small laser lolcust iic wants to chanllange a customised shortwub firestarter? good luck with that.

Opinions have nothign to do with that, facts are facts and by facts most of these mechs are inferio to the holy trinity.
The Urbanmech will be bad, thats not a question at all. But the urbanmech will be used because peple like it. but the love for a mech will not make it a better mech. As much as an opinion can not override general facts of importance by the shooter elements of MWO, which naturally already decide what is going to make a mech good o bad.

Edited by Lily from animove, 07 February 2015 - 08:18 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Simply buff the existing 'Mechs that are not the Timberwolf, Stormcrow and Direwolf (and while we are at it, fix the hitboxes of the first two). Otherwise there will be no variation on the Clanfront in CW.