17 replies to this topic

[Corbenik]

Radar Deprivation module, AMS seem to be best counter measures Radar Deprivation is a must and stay near cover.

[Chiasson Brinker]

The two best counters to missiles are movement and AMS in my opinion. If you have access to ECM, it helps too.

[Brizna]

You are neither the first nor the last new player to complain about missiles, sad truth is that inexperience is making you step on the wrong place at the wrong time. I know you'll find this hard to believe, but close range weapon rule this game in the upper echelons, missiles are just inefficient at getting mechs killed unless they make a mistake. Please do stick with the game and try to learn, this game has step learning curve, it might frustrate some people, but it is exactly why this game is worth your time.

Some tips:
Cover is great.
High cover is better.
Radar Deprivation module makes any cover that gets you out of sight of the enemy team even for a glimpse a great cover.
Try to stay close to a friendly ECM.
AMS will help alleviating positioning mistakes (yours or of nearby allies) but won't keep you alive if you stay in the open.
The enemy can't fire missiles at you if none of them can see you.
If you read (your name) NARCED! run to solid cover!! they can fire missile even if they don't see you while you got hit fby a NARC. Friendly ECM also does the trick.
Learn the maps.
If you see someone throwing you a ton missiles at you try to get as close as possible to him, just don't get killed in the process but know that IS missiles do 0 damage at less that 210 meters and clan missiles' damage greatly diminishes as you get closer than 210 m.

And finally because I know all of this is easier said than learnt get an LRM trial mech and play it a few rounds, you'll quickly realize how weak it is.

Edited by Brizna, 06 February 2015 - 07:07 PM.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Source Mystic, on 06 February 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

Radar dep though a great idea is not workable I am new and can not get that yet. and did i hear you right run toward the person shooting the missiles ? Seems counter intuitive to run at a missile ?

Missiles have a min range (well Clan missiles do less damage within 180 meters), so if you can spot locate an LRM mech you can either use cover to move closer or flank around and once you are within min range they are pretty much neutered.

That being said crossing open ground against LRM heavy mechs is a bad idea.

You have to learn how to use the cover on the maps to negate LRMs (i.e. tall buildings, arches, canyon ridges, etc.). It takes some time and experience but once you get it down you can really reduce the effect of LRMs.

Source Mystic, on 06 February 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

all in all i think lights especially jenner and spiders should be able to out right out run a missile volleys. especially with the 300xl installed as is light mechs are complete garbage except for scouts and to tag and narc.
enemy's.

.... and i repeat do not buy a light for you first mech .....you will hate it mediums and heavy's seem to be the way to go from what I have seen.

The Space Pope is going to have to disagree here, lights are very useful, but they do have a very low time to kill (TTK), so you have to play them in a very particular fashion.

Personally, the Space Pope doesn't focus on scouting, narcing or tagging as it is better for his team if he instead focuses on skirmishing and hit and run type of attacks (it may seem counter-intuitive, but light mechs need to damage and kill, scouting or marking for LRMs doesn't get you a win nearly as often as many people believe).

Lights do however have a high investment cost because you usually need all the upgrades and the fastest (and most expensive) engine you can mount.

On a side note, the trial light mechs are very sub-par, so if you are using those to gauge the light mech class then it is going to cause some skewed results. For instance, the Trial Jenner F, has 3 x small lasers and 3 medium lasers but only Single Heat Sinks, which is a truly atrocious build and is quite challenging even for the Space Pope to use as a veteran light mech pilot.

It is true however that light mechs require some solid piloting, experience, tactics and situational awareness to do well.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 06 February 2015 - 08:55 PM.

[Insects]

Stay close to cover at all times.
"But the team are all walking across that open space so its ok to join them?" Nope, they are going to get rained on like noobs, stay near cover. Though, stay with the team, so unfortunately you may be doomed to be a lemming in low Elo if there is no alternate route to keep up with them...

Dont be an assault as a beginner, too slow and you cant escape from bad situations and run behind cover.
People make the mistake of thinking an assault will be the all powerful mech in the game so a good easymode start. But thats wrong, they are mobile turrets, good armor and weapons but heavily penalized by slow speed. They are not the battlefied royalty, the game aims to balance all classes in a paper-scissors-rock type way.

LRM can only shoot you if being targeted.
Who/what is targeting you for the enemy? If they can see you then you can see them. Games concealment cover is poor except for the swamp map so even with ECM enemy mechs are pretty easy to spot for the keen eyed. Shoot in their direction even if out of range and the rest of the team will focus on that spot like cats on a laser pointer.
UAV, blue dot in the sky (which does not have a blue triangle above, thats your own teams) like a clan missile which has got stuck up there or a star. Destroy it asap. Lasers can shoot it at any range, when the target distance is non infinite you have it bulls-eyed.

The games matchmaker does have different groups. Doesnt always work, but mostly it should and you will notice a difference as you change brackets.
LRMagedon mostly only exists at lower Elo, the funny thing is that when you do learn how to avoid LRM you will end up ranked into matches with less LRM making them a total non issue most games (there are exceptions, many enemy LRM, no ECM and good enemy spotters and the LRM rain will hurt).

[ShinVector]

Think one of the LRMs on at the newbie level is... Advance Target Decay.
Thing you are behind cover ?? Nope... The missiles still has a lock since since most people won't have radar Derp at this stage.

[Valkran]

Source Mystic, on 07 February 2015 - 02:32 AM, said:

[redacted]

Just wanted to say that as a new player, I love this game.
But there is somewhat of a learning curve. Missiles used to be my nr1 cause of dead but after a while and once you know how to deal with them, they almost feel underpowered.

I don't own any modules at all and only have 1 mech at elite so far and I'm experiencing no balancinging issues at all (clan does seem better than IS but that's probably personal preference).

It's a fun game that rewards tactics and smart play but punishes running in without a plan.. and that's exactly what I love about Mechwarrior.

So while older players may have better mechs, more skill or better modules than me, at my level and against the people matchmaking puts me, I can easily do the highest damage of my entire team without feeling underpowered or at a disadvantage (and I don't use missiles at all).
So from one new player to another: stop going in thinking that you're at a disadvantage, tactics and skill beat modules/quirks/expensive mechs from what I've experienced.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 08 February 2015 - 08:32 AM.
Unconstructive material in quote

[Tim East]

Light mechs are hard, bro. I should know; they're my favorites. With that said though, I somehow doubt you played enough games in the Stalker trial for the matchmaker to find you your place in the sun. You're super-new, and it takes a little while in any given mech class to get a valid Elo stat for the MM to use to field you against appropriate opponents. Trust me, cheap out in the Stalker long enough, and you'll eventually get pitted against a halfway skilled light or medium skirmisher, and get your legs melted off. Hell, I'll dance with you myself if you want someone to prove that LRM-boat loses to light mech almost invariably.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Tim East, on 07 February 2015 - 03:18 AM, said:

Light mechs are hard, bro. I should know; they're my favorites. With that said though, I somehow doubt you played enough games in the Stalker trial for the matchmaker to find you your place in the sun. You're super-new, and it takes a little while in any given mech class to get a valid Elo stat for the MM to use to field you against appropriate opponents. Trust me, cheap out in the Stalker long enough, and you'll eventually get pitted against a halfway skilled light or medium skirmisher, and get your legs melted off. Hell, I'll dance with you myself if you want someone to prove that LRM-boat loses to light mech almost invariably.

and the trial stalker is not exactly optimal in any way,it just explodes if someone even scratches the paint

Edited by Cookiemonter669, 07 February 2015 - 04:17 AM.

[Koniving]

(Last edit: I had forgotten some links to certain references.)

Welcome to MWO!
Missile spam is one of the things I hate most, too. When against it, I close the distance and slay them (when possible). When using it, I read a book and hold a button while occasionally glancing up at the screen. Great way to catch up on the gossip.

Source Mystic, on 06 February 2015 - 06:45 PM, said:

I am a new player and the thing that pisses me of the most is the missiles, missile spam every where nothing like being bombarded by a enemy you can not see and dead in 2 or three volleys no matter what.
i know there are missiles counter measures could someone explain to me best ones in general and then what would be good in a nova think that will be my mech of choice because of the Lazar array ..... i know people hate them cause they think they run hot but if you just program the sequences they are manageable on heat.

Back in the day when dinosaurs roamed the earth, the game had the best graphics it ever will have, and you could drop kick another mech then turn around and AC/20 it while it was getting up.... dodging missiles was as simple as shutting down, starting up, and moving off to the left or right.

And before that, it was as simple as shifting immediately in reverse and watching the missiles hit the ground.
3 second gif of dodging closed beta super LRMs. They came straight down (no cover ever worked) and were lightning fast.

Spoiler

....Today, today you need multi-million dollar modules that take a lot of experience to be able to escape enemy fire when you leave their sight -- that is of course when you're as far into the game as myself.

----

But for you, there's a simple set of things you can do to increase your chances against missiles.

1) Avoid the open.
2) Use buildings and obstacles taller than you to stop the missiles.
3) Stand beside another enemy, and put that enemy between you and the missiles. Laugh hysterically.
4) Utilize an ally's ECM field by staying close by. You'll see a (.) symbol.
5) Commander's voice: "Activate AMS!" Lancemate's voice: "It was too much weight to put a half ton defense on." (Dies by explosions) (Source video.)
6) Counting. (Disappear from stationary missile boats, shut off, count to 6, power up, continue about your business).
7) Running in circles (if agile enough) -- preferably near cover but while detected. Let them spend their missiles.
8) Come back later. Return after they blew through tons and tons of ammo and then let them know how helpless they are.
9) Close the distance. Within 180 meters, this is the LRM boat's melancholy. It lasts through the ages. Even Clan mechs, whose LRMs do some damage, are basically hitting you with less than MG bullets at ranges of 45 meters or less. Close in tight.

This was 810 missiles (4.5 tons) on someone who absolutely would not get out of my face.

Clearly, closing the distance works even against Clan LRM boats (twin 15s, quad 10s). I did a whopping 5 damage on that guy. Ultimately running into him was what awarded me the kill.

9-2) If you have a speed of 97.2 kph or greater, run Toward the missiles regardless of the distance (while looking out for high cover to glue yourself to). The shorter you are, the more useful this technique is. Missiles tend to aim for your chest. Specifically they aim directly on the line between your arms. So for mechs such as the Jenner, running towards the missiles will cause almost ALL missiles to miss, provided you are moving fast enough (from 750 [yes, seven hundred and fifty] to 500 or less meters).

10) If you are beyond 850 (yes eight hundred fifty) meters, you are better off running away from the missiles.
And if you are less than 500 meters, run perpendicular to the missiles and maintain a circle.

Finally if you are confident and possess jump jets at a range of 710 meters to 1,000 meters, simply hit the brakes, stare into the missiles and count the number of 'adjustments' they make (only do this if you could see them launch from one enemy and it is launched in a large simultaneous volley; so this method is a bit archaic now with Clan mechs and small launcher spam). On the 7th course adjustment hit numpad 9, and on the 8th course adjustment hit numpad 1 and then space. You'll jump right over the missiles and land with the explosion right behind you. Great for screenshots or looking awesome!

----

Some exceptions to the above suggestion on getting near ally ECM:
Exception 1) If you're hit with a PPC, even though you're near the ECM rather than the ECM user -- you will be detected and targeted by missiles! This won't mean much "now" as a new player, but as you evolve... enemies will have target decay and they will have 7 seconds to lock on and hit you. And if they keep hitting you with PPCs, you're done for.

(Griffin's default PPC + LRM combination works really well btw).

Exception 2) If you are hit by a single missile that does not have an explosion or screen shake, it did not miss!!!
You've been NARC'd and for 30 seconds you are a missile magnet.
The cure? You'd be surprised: Get near an ally with ECM. It will instantly destroy the NARC beacon.
Your own ECM does not count, as it shuts off when the NARC is attached.
------
If there is absolutely no possible way anyone is spotting you, look for something glowing blue in the sky. Shoot it down. (It's an enemy UAV).

Edited by Koniving, 07 February 2015 - 05:03 AM.

[Koniving]

Oh -- how silly of me.

I forgot the greatest one of all:
Put something above your head. Tunnels, bridges, other mechs. Any of these will work.

[Insects]

Valkran, on 07 February 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

So while older players may have better mechs,

They dont really, people in PUG queue are usually leveling something up constantly.
So they are running unleveled mechs with a single module much of the time.

Started on a new mech two days ago, 4 hours 2 minutes of game time and it is fully elited and 12000xp from unlocking mastery. Thats with premium time, but still its hardly a long grind to unlock top level mechs.

This match had only 4 of the basics unlocked. Derp module, but not for any LRM purpose on swamp map there is so much cover they are ineffective there, helps greatly for circling behind lobsters and surprising people on that map though because they cant keep watching your direction on radar for 3 seconds.

Spoiler

Edited by joelmuzz, 07 February 2015 - 05:36 AM.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Also the trial firestarter is good for learning positioning,its fast and has 2 ams

[Aiden Skye]

Here OP, I brought over this guide from my unit forums:

http://mwomercs.com/...-the-lrm-storm/

[Bloodweaver]

Koniving, on 07 February 2015 - 04:54 AM, said:

Exception 1) If you're hit with a PPC, even though you're near the ECM rather than the ECM user -- you will be detected and targeted by missiles! This won't mean much "now" as a new player, but as you evolve... enemies will have target decay and they will have 7 seconds to lock on and hit you. And if they keep hitting you with PPCs, you're done for.

PPCs will only disable ECM directly - on the ECM-carrying 'mech. Hitting a 'mech that is under another 'mech's ECM umbrella will not open it up to targeting. Only TAG will do this.

Koniving, on 07 February 2015 - 04:54 AM, said:

You've been NARC'd... The cure? You'd be surprised: Get near an ally with ECM. It will instantly destroy the NARC beacon.
Your own ECM does not count, as it shuts off when the NARC is attached.

ECM does not destroy the Narc beacon, it silences it, and only for so long as the Narc'd 'mech stays under ECM protection. It simply keeps it from being able to broadcast. If a Narc'd 'mech runs under a friendly's ECM umbrella, he stops being targetable. But, if he leaves that umbrella, Narc will resume broadcasting his position.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 07 February 2015 - 10:33 AM.

[Koniving]

Bloodweaver, on 07 February 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

PPCs will only disable ECM directly - on the ECM-carrying 'mech. Hitting a 'mech that is under another 'mech's ECM umbrella will not open it up to targeting. Only TAG will do this.


ECM does not destroy the Narc beacon, it silences it, and only for so long as the Narc'd 'mech stays under ECM protection. It simply keeps it from being able to broadcast. If a Narc'd 'mech runs under a friendly's ECM umbrella, he stops being targetable. But, if he leaves that umbrella, Narc will resume broadcasting his position.

Changes are getting ahead of me. However, in 2013 shooting anyone with PPCs (around when the mechanic was first introduced) under a bubble would reveal them. Of course this also says how long it's been since I've used PPCs.

Far as NARC, this change probably came with the NARC revamp.
There used to be a problem where even friendly ECM would prevent your NARC from working on a target (making it worthless to have a NARC launcher on the Raven 3L without first switching to counter mode). Then even if you had NARC'd someone, either 30 damage or x seconds or going near an ECM field would destroy the NARC beacon.

Seems to be reduced to just the time ticker with a mute function provided by friendly ECM.

[Bloodweaver]

I remember that about a Narc would stop working on a target if it went into one of your buddies' ECM. Dumb! Incidentally, one neat little trick you can do with Narc - disable friendly ECM! Shoot an ECM-active ally with a Narc and, although it won't do any damage (in fact, it may not register anything at all - when I tested it, nobody ever reacted) it will shut off their ECM for the Narc's duration. I have yet to come up with a way this could be useful, though. Probably an oversight by PGI when they designed it, I doubt they even know it occurs.

[Furry Fox]

Although I started playing this game back in August, I remember vividly what it was like being a new player. I use to HATE missile spammers with a passion, and it took me a few months to learn how to avoid putting myself in vulnerable positions; now it's just second nature. Here is a major tip that might help you if you like to fight in light 'Mechs or in 'Mechs built for short-range brawling.



Do not be the first one on your team to push the enemy. If one player on the enemy team sees you advancing towards him, he's going to target you (which will allow his LRM-boat buddies sitting behind a hill to shoot you). Even if your teammates follow you into battle, it's unlikely that he will stop targeting you until either one of you dies or retreats. So, just don't put yourself in that position! Let somebody else on your team lead the charge and get spammed by missiles.

If you're playing in a light 'Mech, or in a 'Mech that utilizes short-range weaponry, then you might have to wait five minutes before one of your teammates gets impatient and decides to lead a charge (or before the enemy decides to charge you). That's okay! There's nothing wrong with that, it's just how this game seems to work. Knowing this puts you at a personal advantage, because once your fight DOES start you'll be fighting half-dead 'Mechs in your fresh 'Mech.



You might sometimes find yourself 8+ minutes into a match where both teams are still taking pot-shots at each other. That's okay - don't get impatient. Unless your 'Mech is built for sniping, don't start peaking over ledges to try and shoot the enemy. Doing this will just result in you taking much more damage than you put out. If you know the maps well enough, you can try flank to the enemy... but put some thought into it before moving out. It is definitely better to take the 1-2 minute route that puts you out of harms way than it is to take the 10 second route that results in you taking damage.

Once you do reach the enemy, don't plan on brawling with them. Get some damage in, and then retreat to see if they come after you. If they don't chase you, then keep on picking at them until they decide to attack your team. At this point, fall back and fight with your teammates. That being said, this isn't something you will have to do every match. Only do it when you realize that neither team is going to commit to an attack.

If you don't know how to put yourself in a position where you can poke the enemy and then fall back without risking your life, then don't do it. You might just have to wait a few more minutes until one team runs out of ammo and has to charge. That's okay, it's just how this game seems to work. Eventually you will get the hang of how matches "flow" and how to exploit your enemies.

Edited by Furry Fox, 07 February 2015 - 12:34 PM.