24 replies to this topic

[Anachronda]

As the title indicates I am a complete newb. I'm so green it's embarrassing and just starting to learn how to drive and stuff here. So you might imagine how overwhelmed I might be in trying to figure out what my first mech should be and how to build it. I'm starting to see what I might want, so that is a good start.

I haven't played a real Battletech game since the original Mechwarrior I think. But when I did I did like the light mechs, and in that game taking a Locust to people's legs was a pretty viable strategy. It's obviously a bit harder here, but based on what I have done in playing, even though I am new and all, I think a light mech is for me if nothing else but for the ability to run when I get into trouble. Ditto for Jump Jets.

I read a bunch of stuff about the Kit Fox and I thought it would be a fun mech to do. I also thought it would be a good idea to have ECM and be a sniper since that would remind me to duck and cover more and focus my damage on that first shot/volley/alpha strike before running. I haven't learned how to use lasers lasers effectively and I kind of like the ballistics, so I was thinking a build around the UAC. LRMs seemed a logical choice as well for sniping. They both seem to produce less heat and allow a quicker bang.

This is what I have so far for my build

Two things I am not figuring out for sure:
1) how to factor heat dissipation into builds. Like figuring out the heat and ghost heat generated by weapons and how much is dissipated by heat sinks, etc.
2) quirks in the case of a mech like the Kit Fox where you can mix and match pieces and obtain therefore some of the quirks/advantages (yaw speed/angle, etc). That's one of the things this guy (beware his salty language!) was trying to work on - putting in different arm/torso/leg pieces to get the benefits. I have seen places that tell the quirks of various mechs, but not what parts give what benefits other than hardpoints. I'd like, obviously, to do what I can there. I think that I could swap the torso and legs on this build but I don't know to what. He also uses two jump jets instead of four, and taking the non-jumpjet legs gave me extra tonnage for things like ECM, AMS, and ammo.

I am sure there will be plenty of people who will disagree with the very premise of this mech, and I am certain there are tweaks that need to be done to make it more effective even if I go this route. Any advice is appreciated but I would like to try and keep to my goals here if I can.

Being new and not very good yet, I do have enough money to do this build according to smurfy's site, but it will be awhile before I can build anything else. I'm somewhat concerned about repair costs, since I have read elsewhere you should budget 150% of the cost of a mech so you have that 50% for repairs. Since I am not making a lot in matches now that I am done with the newbie rewards, I don't want to dig myself too deep in a hole. I have been practicing with the training mechs, obviously, so that is an option, but the fact remains that a properly built mech will probably lead to more success and therefore greater gains.

Thank you for your time and patience. I know this post is pretty long but skimming you should get the gist. It's also my first post here.

[Aceramic]

I'm sure others will be along shortly to reply in more detail, but here's a couple quick points.

Repair (and rearm) does not currently exist, so you don't need to worry about that. It may eventually return, but no sign of that being soon. You will need cash for weapons and (to a lesser extent with Clan 'mechs like the Kit Fox) upgrades, but those are a one-time purchase (per 'mech).

Personally, I would hesitate to recommend starting with not only a light, but a Clan light. Clan 'mechs are pretty much universally more expensive to buy and upgrade. Clan lights are slower (easier to kill) than IS lights. Finally, lights typically aren't the best place to start period. That said, you seem to have previous experience with MW, so you may be fine there. My only real recommendation would be an IS light before Clan.

[Thor Sten]

I think your build is OK, but you have awfully little ammo. Your 2 AMS will be empty in no time, could as well pack just one, as will be your LRMs. UltraAC can go through their amunition fast as well. I'd either try to get at least one ER-M-Laser with me, to have something to do after your ammo runs out, or pack more ammo.

Also: The armor of all mechs in this game has been doubled compared to the TableTop and IIRC Mechwarrior 1-3, so your ammo might not be worth as much, as you might think.

[Aiden Skye]

A clan light. Thats a tough road to start out on. Took a look at your build and I don't think it has nearly enough ammo to be effective. Armor is also pretty low given the speed of clan lights.

I'd recommend you go with some energy weapons instead of that UAC5.
But first, what role are you trying to perfrom in this mech / how do you plan on using it?

[Zen Idiot]

you are ammo dependent and that's not good. throw on a back up laser.
i know you said you don't like lasers, but they are a light's main weapon because of weight.
if you wanna snipe try throwing a erll on that rt arm, maybe get the 2 energy left arm and put 2 erml there...

Edited by ZenIdiot, 07 February 2015 - 07:06 AM.

[John1352]

Clan light mechs aren't really fast enough to play the way you describe in your post. If you want to play clan mechs, I would suggest the stormcrow as your first one. It is the same speed as the kitfox but weighs nearly twice as much, and is considered to be among the best mechs in the game. Play a few games in the Stormcrow Prime trial mech to see how you like it. The stock loadouts aren't great, but you can mix and match parts and make something very powerful.

[Anachronda]

Everything you guys are saying seems spot on. I also got some advice elsewhere. I think I will try out the Stormcrow as you suggest, but let's tweak on the Kit Fox.
The one problem I do see is that it is slow like you guys said. That does make it hard to run and snipe. I was thinking of "poptarting," but I do wonder if two JJs really is sufficient. Then again adding more would seem to require taking the lesser legs. I don't know how much JJ the trial mechs I have done had - the Kit Fox trial has none - but I do want to be able to fly high enough to do what I am trying to do, pop up from behind cover.

As far as lasers go the two problems I had were not being good enough at holding them in place yet, and heat. Pulse lasers at least are more of a burst damage kind of thing. With that in mind, I fiddled and built something that has a pulse and a medium. I wanted to do two pulses, but the smaller pulse laser has too short a range.
I took down an AMS, upped the ammo, and upped the armor. It may be more viable now. I am not sure about my ammo placement though. It's a tradeoff between the danger of ammo exploding and destroying something and the fact that arms and legs blow off easier.

This is what I have now

I need to figure out how to embed smurfy stuff in the forum so you don't have to follow the link to see it. But this should be a productive dialogue. Thanks for the help.

[Anachronda]

While we're messing around, I thought it might be funny, for giggles, to see what happens if you try and go PPC. So I started by telling smurfy max armor, then managed TWO PPCs!
First and most obvious problem is that it doesn't have ECM or AMS which was kind of the point anyway. Second problem is heat. I shaved some armor and came up with this.
It would also be a one hit wonder in that it would, by my rudimentary calculations, close to max heat in one shot and would have a long time before it could fire anything again. Still no AMS, too. But it does have heat sinks in the legs, which are supposed to cool faster if you walk in the water.

Not to derail from the original poppin' fresh ballistic sniper, though. Just a funny thought.

Incidentally this was kind of one of the reasons I was thinking Kit Fox for this. Well ok one of the top three - that you can cram so much into a little mech like this. The other two, obviously, were the jump jets and ECM.

In the end, it probably turns out that all these builds lack enough armor or something. So I will probably need to sacrifice something else.

[Lord Reinhold]

I think the Kit Fox works best with energy builds. I've tried UACs quite a bit, but its hard to get enough ammo in to last the entire match.

My favorite loudout uses 1 ERPPC, 2MLAS, 2MGs and ECM. I prefer the PPC over the LLAS or LPLAS since it allows for shorter exposure and thus less time beeing shot at. The Clan medium lasers are just to good to pass up; good range, damage and tonnage, well worth the time! MGs are nice when presented with targets of oppurtunity and the weight is minimal.

Like previous writers has said, I would definately try and up the armor, as much as possible.

Link to build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...48d6b9b1b266664

General tactics I use with Kit Fox is stay with the main group, provide ECM and firesupport, engage targets of oppurtunity, but don't stray to far since you lack the speed of other lights.

Edited by Lord Reinhold, 07 February 2015 - 09:23 AM.

[Anachronda]

Okay, so, back to the UAC/5 build, there were some suggested tweaks. This one sacrifices the Pulse for more armor. Besides, I missed the fact I had screwed up the legs and they were lopsided.

Here she is.

Are we getting somewhere now?

[Kahadras]

I would agree that your design isn't really packing enough ammo. I can easily chew through 6 plus tons of ammo in a game (especialy with autocannon). I would advise that if you are going to go for a support Kit Fox then take 3 AMS and at least 3 tons of ammo for them plus an ECM suite. My current build is....

3 AMS with 3 tons of ammo
3 ER medium lasers
ECM

It's not that 'killy' but it can perform a vital role in the team. I've maxed the armour to improve survivability and gone for some double heat sinks to keep up a decent rate of fire with the lasers.

[Anachronda]

Lord Reinhold, on 07 February 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

I think the Kit Fox works best with energy builds. I've tried UACs quite a bit, but its hard to get enough ammo in to last the entire match.

My favorite loudout uses 1 ERPPC, 2MLAS, 2MGs and ECM. I prefer the PPC over the LLAS or LPLAS since it allows for shorter exposure and thus less time beeing shot at. The Clan medium lasers are just to good to pass up; good range, damage and tonnage, well worth the time! MGs are nice when presented with targets of oppurtunity and the weight is minimal.

Like previous writers has said, I would definately try and up the armor, as much as possible.

Link to build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...48d6b9b1b266664

General tactics I use with Kit Fox is stay with the main group, provide ECM and firesupport, engage targets of oppurtunity, but don't stray to far since you lack the speed of other lights.

All of that sounds like sound advice as well. I'll probably consider that build, too, for an energy loadout. Incidentally, how tough is it to swap things out once you've bought something? How much of this would be easy enough to change by just buying the stuff I'm missing and put it in? What can be upgraded (armor, torso, etc)?

[Anachronda]

Okay, I realize we are in danger of getting seriously into the weeds here, but I got another suggestion from that PPC build. And the interesting bit with that one is that it does have more jump jets, which would get me higher. That said, it relies on those legs that have the nerf on them (which I forget - something like turning I think?) Still, here she is.

[Lord Reinhold]

Sure, bring extra jumpjets if you want, I like having the machineguns around, but the extra mobility from the JJs should help you get around the maps easier

Swapping stuff around is easy, you dont need to upgrade anything on the clans, everythings there from the start.

If you still want to go for a UAC build, try it with a UAC2. I ran a build with it a while back but ultimately left it because it lacked the punch.. Still, it was okay for supression and harassment, plus UACs are fun

[Ovion]

I love the Kit Fox.
An amazing piece of kit.

To help you in your build choices
My 'Standard' Builds are:
Pulse-ECM
KFX-PRIME
My default build.
The Large Pulse Laser has the range to reach out and poke people from 1200M out if you need to.
The Medium Pulse Lasers are fine out to 600M, which is the optimal range of the LPL meaning at a reasonable distance you can happily plink with both.
Then in close, you can use the MPLs and Machine Guns for brawling, occasionally hitting the LPL for some extra kick when your heat is ok.
The ECM provides cover for you and your team, and the Targetting Computer gives you that little extra effective range and output.

SRM Knife Fighter:
KFX-PRIME
This thing is comedy gold.
You have the option of an alpha, but really you want to be chainfiring to keep the heat down, and the DPS up.
Just walk up to something and end it.
Risks involve that you're a 30T light going 100kph that pratically needs to get within 200M to do the deed.
But once you make it enjoy it.

I cycle between a few other builds, LRMs, ACs, LBX's.
I miss my 2xCUAC2 build. That was just fun.
Never found success with AMS on it myself, but I know others have.

Might try another TripAMS Kitfox soon with overload for a giggle.

[Ovion]

As to your existing ideas:
KFX-S
3T ammo is more than enough for most large ballistics.
You get an extra Medium Laser too.
All at the low, low cost of armour you don't need and AMS.

Alt version with an LBX5 instead: KFX-S

Alt AMS build: KFX-S

Alt PPC build: KFX-S
(Dunno what to do with PPCs, I suck with them, prefer LPLs)


Also, I'm looking forward to these builds once the C becomes public:
KFX-PRIME
4MGs hahahaha.

KFX-PRIME
TwinUAC2 back.

KFX-PRIME
Twin LBX2!

[Havyek]

I'm loving the Kit Fox, but it's a special kind of 'Mech to run.

The Clan lights are very slow and easy to hit, so hit and run tactics are advised.
I've been successful with a mix of SRM and energy builds.

KFX-S
Stick close to the heavies and use the SSRMs and MGs to scare lights away. ERLLAS gives you some range to reach out and touch someone before they enter SSRM range.

KFX-D
Another anti-light 'Mech. No ECM which also means that should you run into an ECM light you only have MGs to attack with. You can also replace the SSRM4s with SRM4/6 with Artemis and be a mini splat kitty.

KFX-PRIME
A mix of the above 2. ERLLAS for some ranged damage, ECM, 2 SRM6As for additional damage. Stick with the heavies and sneak behind their targets.

Edited by Havyek, 24 February 2015 - 11:09 AM.

[Kyynele]

You should keep in mind that in order to get elite efficiencies for any mech, you have to buy 3 different variants of the same chassis and level them all up.

Without full elites, your mech will be slower, clumsier, hotter and generally greatly inferior to everyone else's mechs, even if they use the same exact build. Thus, you will need about 20 million C-Bills (not counting any modifications) to get 3 Kit Foxes, and only after that you can start playing them without extra handicaps giving everyone else an edge over you.

Kit Fox also honestly is a pretty bad mech, current clan lights play pretty much like medium mechs do, except that they have barely any armor and have very restricted loadout options. It's also very expensive mech to start with, especially since after 25 matches your cadet bonus is over, and your income will plummet to a fraction of what you got from the first matches, even if you have premium time purchased. Kit fox being an omnimech also means that the other variants aren't going to bring anything new to the table, you have to basically buy the same mech 3 times, and level them up using loadouts you could've had on the first mech you bought.

I honestly think that you would've had a much better time if you would've bought 3 Hunchbacks for a little over 4,5 mil each (including the mandatory DHS upgrade), have 3 truly different mechs to play, get them leveled up, play on an even playing field against other players and earn money much quicker to buy additional mechs, than you will likely do with the KF.

You can always just make a new account to get a fresh cadet bonus (about 10 million extra during the first 25 matches) and not lose much, if and when you think that the grind on your KF is getting impossible. Selling mechs isn't worth it, you lose most of your money spent in that deal.

The only thing Kit Fox truly excels in is being an ultra-long range harrasser, which requires pretty good knowledge of the maps and typical routes that enemies will take, and plain doesn't work on all maps. I took this build from metamechs, but the build I used to level mine was something very similiar, and had easily the most success: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2228fec7c790970 Even for that role, I'd personally prefer an IS ECM light, because they can get out of sticky situations with their speed, if you position yourself poorly. With the KF, if you make the stupid, you just die.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad about the mech of your choice, but choosing a good mech for your first one will make your game much more enjoyable, and you'll be more likely to stick with the game. Playing with friends will work too, even in subpar mechs.

GL and HF.

[Ovion]

Selling Clan mechs isn't always so bad though.
You get to keep the omnipods, and get a reasonable amount back if you do choose to sell 1-2 CTs off.

I actually have a list of what's worth keeping Clan wise.

I should really add it, and how leveling works to my handy guides thread...

[NUJRSYDEVIL]

I would recommend the following Kit Foxes

1) Triple AMS & ECM - Support for CW matches

2) 24 SRM & 2 CMG - Incredibly fun on Pug drops. It catches everyone off guard when they are getting slapped by constant SRM6 fire.

I tried a sniper kit fox...not my cup of tea