18 replies to this topic

[PaintedWolf]

http://blogs.scienti...s-and-villains/

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X-Altruists and Sociopaths: A Genetic Link?

A few years ago, I wrote an article titled, "Addicted to Being Good? The Psychopathology of Heroism", in which I first discussed the potential genetic link between Sociopaths and Heroes, or X-Altruists. In theory, their genetic make-up is very similar—same basic group of extreme traits in each personality—with a few important exceptions, one being expressed empathy. This notion was hinted at in 1995 by Behavior Geneticist David Thoreson Lykken [1] in his book, The Antisocial Personalities, when he said, "the hero and the psychopath may be twigs on the same genetic branch." It is very possible that two members of the same family—even brothers in a shared home environment—could end up as seemingly polar opposites; one doing extreme good: the X-Altruist, the other doing extreme bad: the Sociopath.

The difference between the sibling with X-Altruism and the one with Sociopathy could come down to the presence or absence of a few crucial regulatory mechanisms that affect expressed empathy.

Lykken claimed that the ability to feel and express empathy was the main feature that defined psychopaths from heroes. He defines a psychopath as different from a sociopath, in the sense that psychopaths are born with a "defect" that disallows them to feel empathy, and sociopaths are a product of ill-rearing or a result of extreme negative trauma. The environmental misfortune then triggers impulsive hostility and the closing off from emotions, thus experiencing zero guilt or remorse for one’s actions. Essentially, Lykken claims one is genetic (psychopathy) and one is primarily the result of environmental experience (sociopathy), but they are both under the umbrella of Antisocial Personality Disorder. This point regarding etiology is debatable, and I won’t be getting into that here, but it is relevant to mention.

The point is this: there is more than one path to the dark side of morality, resulting in the manifestation of an Antisocial Personality Disorder. However, the more we learn about the brain and neuroplasticity, or the brain’s ability to change in response to behaviors or conditions we expose ourselves to, the less "inevitable" psychopathy or sociopathy seems as an unchangeable condition. Meaning, empathy can be taught to some degree. The amount of change that can be made to the empathy circuit is more individually determined and based on specific circumstances, but movement in the proper direction is possible.

But there’s more to it than just "empathy or no empathy" that describes the difference between these two personalities—the X-Altruist has a few other handy traits up his sleeve as well, which allows him to have the bold, intense traits of the Sociopath, but with a very different, very beneficial outcome.

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Ego, Empathy, Emotion—Why do they matter?

First, let’s be clear on what I mean by "ego", and why it’s relevant in discussions of personality and emotional stability. The ego is basically your sense of self. It is your identity, your self-concept, your reality check. Ego strength is "a person’s capacity to maintain his/her own identity despite psychological pain, distress, turmoil and conflict between internal forces as well as the demands of reality." [2] So the ego is pretty much the glue that holds you together, and ego strength is what you need in order to maintain emotional stability.

Strong ego = good; this means you can roll with things as they come—you handle stress well, you are confident in your abilities, and even major disappointments don’t fracture your self-identity or make you question your value as a person, at least not permanently. Fragile ego = not so good; experiencing stressful situations, disappointments, or even mild criticism causes your whole world to fall apart, destroying your self esteem.

While the expression (or lack) of empathy is seen as the defining feature that separates the X-Altruist from the Sociopath, there are other underlying traits that majorly affect the ability, willingness, or tendency to express empathy, and these are markedly different in X-Altruists as compared to Sociopaths. These are: the ability to engage in Flexible Detachment from emotion or stress, and possessing high Ego Resilience. Flexible Detachment enables the X-Altruist to buffer their ego from intense emotional damage during times of crisis, and high Ego Resilience helps them repair and rebound quickly in the event damage does occur.

The Sociopath lacks these two superpowers, which makes all the difference in the world when you are making a distinction between those who strive for the promotion of good or evil, or their ability to do so effectively.

In other words, people who are against "People having egos" may unwittingly be promoting sociopathic tendencies, or at least, I hope unwittingly. Why would someone want to do that? I have no idea, I've never really felt threatened by someone with a big ego. I get irritated by behavior I consider obnoxious, but as long as it is not malicious I usually shrug it off. Anyone else have an opinion?

[Lily from animove]

much spychobabble, as usual, quite meaningless stuff at all. Its an employment creation measurement for too many psychologists, which otherwise would not have a job.

I say psychology is fortunetelling of the current cenrtury where they try to look more scientific than mystical. But the outcome is the same.

[Lily from animove]

Marack Drock, on 07 February 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

I ain't saying its wrong.... but its wrong. Heroism is also manifested from: Self Sacrifice, Love, Protective nature, and a lot more. This article is Bull Shuvick.

but deeply hidden in this heroism serves some self serving. Actually being a villain or tryign a hero si more based on true intelligence and the fact of thinking more rational on the entire picture. Many rather "stupid" people get manipulated easilier by a lie. this has not do with the ego itself its just the suage of a lesser capable mind makign false assumptions often trying to act good with doing the wrong. It's not like for example the christian chruch in the medieval did all the mad things by being bad, they believed what they did was good or neede dfor the good, yet many was just based on foolishness.
How many people do bad things to the poeple they love because they think what they gonna do will help them?

[PaintedWolf]

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Looking at mythology, Prometheus is the ultimate X-Altruist—stealing fire from the all-powerful Zeus to give to mankind—a true act of rebellious heroism that earned him a lifetime of torture: chained to a rock as an eagle repeatedly ate his liver over and over, for all of eternity. It takes a certain kind of fearlessness, driven sense of purpose, and unnaturally high empathy for the plight of others to live your life this way—and do it without hesitation.

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The X-Altruist shows no immediate fear. Fear, along with other intense emotions, are of no use in a crisis—emotion disrupts the cognitive pathway, and renders the hero useless. Extreme emotional sensitivity is necessary to get a person to want to act in the first place, but once you are in-progress of your heroic act, fear and emotion is a hindrance. So how does he experience intense emotion, then instantaneously turn it off in order to function at his heroic best, calm and focused? That’s where Flexible Detachment comes in.

Flexible Detachment is the X-Altruist’s shield that protects the ego from harm when entering battle. Detaching emotionally from a situation allows you to focus clearly on goal-directed behavior, without suffering the negative consequences to your ego. In situations of major trauma, it is common for victims to emotionally shut down—it is out of ego preservation. This is why we often find that the Sociopath has been a victim of some sort of abuse and neglect, resulting in emotional detachment. Because of this detachment, they have no ability to feel empathy.

This is where the Ego-Strength comes in. The X-Altruist sacrifices himself or risks doing so because he or she feels for his or her people. They feel them so strongly they in a sense lose themselves or are willing to do so to save others.

But they do not lose themselves completely, they have to at the same time retain a sense of their identity, who they are, why they are doing this, their courage, and their commitment.

These are two contradictory impulses- losing one's-self enough to feel and sacrifice for others, while at the same time retaining one's-self to keep one's sense of morals and right and wrong.

This is where the Ego comes in, balancing it out. A weak ego will break- this is what leads to sociopathic behavior. The strong ego will hold. There are of course in betweens, which is myself and most of the rest of us.

The Hero has to run into a fire, not caring about himself, to save a child, because of who he is. He is not caring about himself because he has a strong sense of who he is. It doesn't make monological sense.

[Lily from animove]

Marack Drock, on 07 February 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

On that note how many take bullets and die for their country? How many are loving and great people? Easily more than the hate and scum. The reason everyone thinks differently is because the bad people are always the ones getting attention from the Media and such. Good people never get seen. How many soldiers died for our country and continue to do so? There are so many good people that die and protect and save lives that are NEVER seen or heard of despite what they do. Yeah there are tons of people who do this for attention and gain, but there are millions and millions that sacrifice their lives and are never seen and many just ignored by our world.

Also Psychology is VERY useful and not fantasy fortune telling. Get your facts straight. Take it from someone who's Aunt IS a Psychologist as well as myself seeing a psychologist because I can't sleep at night without seeing a car about to hit me. Its useful and helps millions of people. Its not hocuspocus fortune telling. It is a science for a reason. It is very medically based and specializes in the BRAIN and its different lobes, and sections that control specific body functions and emotions. Please do some research on the subject.

strange in th past we had no psychologists yet people had less psychological issues? And why? they simply had people without science behind this claming them on with soem words. or true education, how many kids get attention deficit disorder. I tell you why? because many people have been declred "sick" by not fitting in the eanted scheme of the society while all the years before they were no Problem. Half the issues are caused by educating people wrong ideals they can not furfill, starting to stressing themselves out for stupid stuff. Only a few rare cases of psychological disorders is truly of medical reasons.

[Alienized]

i try to be a *hero* in this game. sadly there are much more *villains* in my own team that keep hiding and let the *hero* die a sacrificial death so the *villains* win the battle and mock the *hero* for having a bad score..



thats what i do out of this topic.

[PaintedWolf]

Lily from animove, on 07 February 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

strange in th past we had no psychologists yet people had less psychological issues? And why? they simply had people without science behind this claming them on with soem words. or true education, how many kids get attention deficit disorder. I tell you why? because many people have been declred "sick" by not fitting in the eanted scheme of the society while all the years before they were no Problem. Half the issues are caused by educating people wrong ideals they can not furfill, starting to stressing themselves out for stupid stuff. Only a few rare cases of psychological disorders is truly of medical reasons.

My niece one time asked me why we have to go to school, she was in elementary. I asked her, what would happen if nobody went to school.

Many could not read. Or write. Or do basic math. They would go McDonald's, not be able to read the menu, or add prices. They would not even be fit enough to be consumers or even hold a Mcjob,

It was the British Empire that established standard education we largely follow today. That is because it made running a world wide empire much easier. When everyone has the same language, same math, can read the same, can write the same, agrees on the same basic facts of history and science, running an empire from Europe to India is much easier.

Now should education mean that? I think, to an extent. We do need people to have basic reading, writing and math skills to at least hold the most basic jobs. We do need people to know the most basics of science and history, or else some politicians could rise up saying "I wrote the Constitution and Invented Gravity!" and an undereducated enough populace might believe them.

Yet I do agree with you in essence. Education now is in many ways stiffing. It is based on the British Empire standards too much. Yes, we need standards because we have to communicate and function as a society. But we also need critical thinking, literature, independent thought, new ideas and inventions- things education is about in theory but lacks now at days in practice.

Edited by PaintedWolf, 07 February 2015 - 04:47 PM.

[Alienized]

Marack Drock, on 07 February 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

I also agree education is slipping. Especially here in the USA where I go to Mcdonalds resturaunts and practically have to do the Cashier's job for him/her because half of them can't add a 1.98 French Fry to my 4 Southern Style Chicken Sandwiches (yes I eat that many and I am still only 140 pounds at 5' 10''). America's standards have slipped largely. I have been seeing a significant drop from the 80's (because I spend all my spare time researching randomness) in education. I have also seen a HUGE lack of motivation with kids these current decades as well. There are so many kids with potential that don't want to do anything but sit in front of a computer (I would love to do that too but I do have a motivation to do work..... so I can buy more computers and screens to sit in front of though lol). I have witnessed first hand kids who are PROUD of ACT scores of 10...... 10! The average College requires a 16-18 just for admittance. I got a 21 my first time and I am less than proud.... less than happy. I have gotten a 25 and I STILL am not happy (although I have a lot to work up to as my Sis got a 28 and my mom and dad both had 30). Anyways the fact that they are proud of a 10! means they are less than educated or just less than motivated.... or just plain stupid.

Either way though Psychology is not a sham.

the us aint the only place where its happening.
its starting in germany as well. like on many other countries.
kids get spoiled by too many things.

[PaintedWolf]

Aliisa White, on 08 February 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

the us aint the only place where its happening.
its starting in germany as well. like on many other countries.
kids get spoiled by too many things.

The Soviets would call it Western Decadence. For them life was all about discipline, hard work, obedience, outlawing corrupting influences like rock music, keeping thinking in a proper direction, and living a by the book. Probably it was values like that while the US was drowning in the Counter-Culture which allowed them to win the Cold War. The more disciplined, militarized, obedient side did win the Cold War right?

To quote Neil Degrasse Tyson:

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Find, you know, talk show hosts and comedians and novelists and attorneys and go get the politicians. Put them in a room, say, how many here got straight As throughout school? None of them are going to raise their hands. By the way, throw in inventors, throw in all these people, none of them are going to raise their hand, okay? Bill Gates dropped out of college. Michael Dell dropped out of college.

Those people are not– the success of those people is not measured by how they performed on the exam that you wrote as professor. Because they’re thinking in ways that you have yet to think, because they’re inventing tomorrow. And the only way you can invent tomorrow is if you break out of the enclosure that the school system has provided for you by the exams written by people who are trained in another generation.

I think the problem is the obsessive emphasis with conformity over critical thinking, hard work over inventiveness, discipline over individualism.

Look at societies that have placed conformity and collectivism over individualism, creativity and innovation. Third Reich Germany, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Iran.

Would you say any of those societies are great examples of what we should follow?

Yes the Soviet Union excelled at academics. They had free schooling and lots and lots of nice obedient little students. Yet if you look at their list of inventions and cultural achievements you will find them quite lacking.

Edited by PaintedWolf, 08 February 2015 - 04:25 PM.

[PaintedWolf]

Well yeah, you do need a certain level of balance. As Jared Diamond notes:

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You've seen that effect even in modern times. Twenty years ago, a few idiots in control of the world's most populous nation were able to shut down the educational system for one billion people at the time of the Great Cultural Revolution, whereas it's impossible for a few idiots to shut down the educational system of all of Europe. This suggests, then, that Europe's fragmentation was a great advantage to Europe as far as technological and scientific innovation is concerned. Does this mean that a high degree of fragmentation is even better? Probably not. India was geographically even more fragmented than Europe, but India was not technologically as innovative as Europe. And this suggests that there is an optimal intermediate degree of fragmentation, that a too-unified society is a disadvantage, and a too-fragmented society is also a disadvantage. Instead, innovation proceeds most rapidly in a society with some intermediate degree of fragmentation.

Chaos and anarchy do not spur innovation. Obviously, if people are free-riding, stealing and adding or not even trying to add anything productive to the system, then it will weaken the system in the long term. Fair and free competition spurs innovation, but when competition is lawless and people get by not by making better products at cheaper prices, but by vandalizing another's property, cheating, stealing ideas all the time instead of improving them (the USSR did this a lot with spies, they believed they had no reason to invent, because they could just steal inventions from the West. )

At the same time, there is a natural tendency to become over-reliant on authority and group think, and that can be extremely costly:

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We can get insight by seeing why China lost its lead in ocean-going ships. As of the year 1400, China had by far the best, the biggest, and the largest number of, ocean-going ships in the world. Between 1405 and 1432 the Chinese sent 7 ocean-going fleets, the so-called treasure fleets, out from China. Those fleets comprised hundreds of ships; they had total crews of 20,000 men; each of those ships dwarfed the tiny ships of Columbus; and those gigantic fleets sailed from China to Indonesia, to India, to Arabia, to the east coast of Africa, and down the east coast of Africa. It looked as if the Chinese were on the verge of rounding the Cape of Good Hope, coming up the west side of Africa, and colonizing Europe.
Well, China's tremendous fleets came to an end through a typical episode of isolationism, such as one finds in the histories of many countries. There was a new emperor in China in 1432. In China there had been a Navy faction and an anti-Navy faction. In 1432, with the new emperor, the anti-Navy faction gained ascendancy. The new emperor decided that spending all this money on ships is a waste of money. Okay, there's nothing unusual about that in China; there was also isolationism in the United States in the 1930's, and Britain did not want anything to do with electric lighting until the 1920s. The difference, though, is that this abandoning of fleets in China was final, because China was unified under one emperor. When that one emperor gave the order to dismantle the shipyards and stop sending out the ships, that order applied to all of China, and China's tradition of building ocean-going ships was lost because of the decision by one person. China was a virtual gigantic island, like Tasmania.

Now contrast that with what happened with ocean-going fleets in Europe. Columbus was an Italian, and he wanted an ocean-going fleet to sail across the Atlantic. Everybody in Italy considered this a stupid idea and wouldn't support it. So Columbus went to the next country, France, where everybody considered it a stupid idea and wouldn't support it. So Columbus went to Portugal, where the king of Portugal considered it a stupid idea and wouldn't support it. So Columbus went across the border to a duke of Spain who considered this stupid. And Columbus then went to another duke of Spain who also considered it a waste of money. On his sixth try Columbus went to the king and queen of Spain, who said this is stupid. Finally, on the seventh try, Columbus went back to the king and queen of Spain, who said, all right, you can have three ships, but they were small ships. Columbus sailed across the Atlantic and, as we all know, discovered the New World, came back, and brought the news to Europe. Cortez and Pizarro followed him and brought back huge quantities of wealth. Within a short time, as a result of Columbus having shown the way, 11 European countries jumped into the colonial game and got into fierce competition with each other. The essence of these events is that Europe was fragmented, so Columbus had many different chances.

Essentially the same thing happened in China with clocks: one emperor's decision abolished clocks over China. China was also on the verge of building powerful water-powered machinery before the Industrial Revolution in Britain, but the emperor said "Stop," and so that was the end of the water-powered machinery in China. In contrast, in Europe there were princes who said no to electric lighting, or to printing, or to guns. And, yes, in certain principalities for a while printing was suppressed. But because Europe in the Renaissance was divided among 2,000 principalities, it was never the case that there was one idiot in command of all Europe who could abolish a whole technology. Inventors had lots of chances, there was always competition between different states, and when one state tried something out that proved valuable, the other states saw the opportunity and adopted it. So the real question is, why was China chronically unified, and why was Europe chronically disunified? Why is Europe disunified to this day?

http://edge.org/conv...how-to-get-rich

Now as for the criticism:

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I am tired of going to a McDonalds and then having to do the Cashier's work because the person can't add without a Calculator.

Now I do see a certain level of basic math as being necessary, but if you have a tool that can do a job better, what are you teaching kids when you tell them intentionally not to use the tool? In the end, you are putting them at a competitive disadvantage,

If Side A is willing to use tools to free up labor, and thereby allow itself more free time to focus on other tasks, while side B purposely does things the harder, more old fashioned way, side B will lose in the long-term.

[Lily from animove]

PaintedWolf, on 08 February 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

The Soviets would call it Western Decadence. For them life was all about discipline, hard work, obedience, outlawing corrupting influences like rock music, keeping thinking in a proper direction, and living a by the book. Probably it was values like that while the US was drowning in the Counter-Culture which allowed them to win the Cold War. The more disciplined, militarized, obedient side did win the Cold War right?

To quote Neil Degrasse Tyson:



I think the problem is the obsessive emphasis with conformity over critical thinking, hard work over inventiveness, discipline over individualism.

Look at societies that have placed conformity and collectivism over individualism, creativity and innovation. Third Reich Germany, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Iran.

Would you say any of those societies are great examples of what we should follow?

Yes the Soviet Union excelled at academics. They had free schooling and lots and lots of nice obedient little students. Yet if you look at their list of inventions and cultural achievements you will find them quite lacking.

None of them is right none of them is wrong. it is as always a matter of balance, but it currently gets out of balance, discipline and repsect are literally lost values of our new generation. Guess why so many wealthy and rich people still educate their children in those values and let this cost a lto money? Because its vital for success to pull yourself together to get somewhere. Hanging around and doing nothing will do nothing. Hard work is a vital part of education to show someone what is behind the stuff they have.

anyone heard the story of that man who collected my little pony and did nothing else in his life, until his mother threw him out? Suddenly he had to sell his my little pony collection to have shelter and food. and What is he doing? hes trying to sue his mom. Thats the genration we currently breed and this is elading nowhere when people do not have any sense for self responsibility anymore.

[Alienized]

PaintedWolf, on 08 February 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

The Soviets would call it Western Decadence. For them life was all about discipline, hard work, obedience, outlawing corrupting influences like rock music, keeping thinking in a proper direction, and living a by the book. Probably it was values like that while the US was drowning in the Counter-Culture which allowed them to win the Cold War. The more disciplined, militarized, obedient side did win the Cold War right?

To quote Neil Degrasse Tyson:



I think the problem is the obsessive emphasis with conformity over critical thinking, hard work over inventiveness, discipline over individualism.

Look at societies that have placed conformity and collectivism over individualism, creativity and innovation. Third Reich Germany, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Iran.

Would you say any of those societies are great examples of what we should follow?

Yes the Soviet Union excelled at academics. They had free schooling and lots and lots of nice obedient little students. Yet if you look at their list of inventions and cultural achievements you will find them quite lacking.

we should not follow anything but our own minds. what we see with our own eyes. what we know by ourselves.


if we learned something that doesnt fit into our reality then why should we believe it? just because it fits into others perspectives or even worse, someone's beliefs?


current systems are all about manipulations. no matter if its in the western or eastern world.
the space for individiualism is getting smaller and smaller.

[Alienized]

Marack Drock, on 09 February 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

Right. That is why the current generation has pretty much decided to be Good for nothing lazy bums. Yeah society really wanted to manipulate the world to be stupid idiots who can't do anything but play video games and work at Fast Food chains. Seriously when you consider that 75% of the current work force is retiring within the next 15 years and that a maximum at the current rate, only 43% will be replaced we have to consider what is happening. Its not the education, it is not society. It is a bunch of lazy kids that got a new Xbox One and PlayStation 4 for Christmas and decided they would rather play video games then get off their butts and do something to contribute to society. Society wants to manipulate these people because if they don't what the hell will be left to even try and replace the work force? We are looking at an economic depression happening in the Western World because we decided to let the kids be "individuals" and then wouldn't enforce anything on them, and then bought them all their games, and cars, payed for their dates with their 50th GF/BF and then when they got into the world they were a bunch of good for nothing bums cause the Molly Coddled them until they 18. Seriously what good is freaking Individualism when you can't even afford a home? Tell Aliisa? I respect being an individual. I love being separate and independent, but if I have NO motivation, and fail school what good will it do me? Answer NO GOOD! I would end up a failure because I suck at doing everything but being an individual. That won't get the Bills payed and it won't get food on the table.

How about you go out and follow NOTHING but your "own mind" and see how far you make it.

The reason Individualism is getting smaller is because it grew to large and now we are going to have a huge span of nothing but useless ser-plus population that can't do anything but serve cheeseburgers and french fries to the few people with jobs. Individualism Extreme is what got us in this mess. We had a bunch of people who all wanted to be Free to be you and me, hippies and now look at this. Have 75% of the Work Force retiring in the next decade, and less that 50% will be replaced because everyone decided to be nice individualistic homeless people content to sit around and play Grand Theft Auto V. Yeah Individualism is important but what good is it when you decide to do nothing but "Follow your own mind" which in this generation entails nothing but Sex and video games? Tell me I would love to know. Cause I don't see Individualism paying the bills.

i dropped out from my home as i was early 17. had to live from 500 euro in germany. it worked. i didnt have internet, i didnt have a mobile. my door was always open. my buds came each day. we drank beer at the near river. we did open fires at the riverside (there been some fireplaces for that).
i worked my ass off. i lived how I wanted to be, not how the society lives.
its a hard tough road.
but it makes you alot more damn stronger.
you give less crap what others say. you are more focused. you throw away all the stuff you dont need.
just basics:

home
food
electricity
friends.

and work.

in all the time before that i was not as happy as i was back then.
you just have to stay focus and work on your own terms.


btw, i still follow my own mind. but i respect the rules and laws of my country. and im not breaking them.

Edited by Aliisa White, 09 February 2015 - 10:32 AM.

[Alienized]

i am currently 27. so not quite of this generation but i got a little daughter which gets into school.
so i am worried about the future alot more than most other people out there.
btw its alot more expensive to live in germany as you think. 500euro is literally nothing.
when all costs are off there are 20 euro per week for food, some partying etc.

it wasnt a risk. i was sick of my own family apart from my dad which had to move house 700km away as i was 14.
i could tell you alot of stuff that lead to my decision but it would be too much to write and this is literally not the place to do it either.

it was the only reasonable decision to take my life into my own hands.
the thing is that i never stopped believing in myself.
ye i also lost my job once besides the fact that my body couldnt do it anymore anyway, i could have ended up homeless.
but i refused to give up, took a job i didnt like at all and worked my way up.
with the way i am. that was one of the reasons why i actually got a better job where i am.
look around, see the work, do it without getting told to do it.
thats how i ensure my own future. i stick to myself knowing exactly how to work with the people around me.
there been days i worked 230 hours a month.
there is no luck as you describe it. just hard work. because the people around you acknowledge hard work.


well at least thats how it should be.


i cant tell you how happy i am to NOT live in the US tbh
also, there are major differences between US and germany on the social side, its not only the complete ensurance system.
if you are jobless you get help from the jobcenters etc.
its not making stuff any better at all. its just completely different.

[Vanguard319]

Marack Drock, on 07 February 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

I also agree education is slipping. Especially here in the USA where I go to Mcdonalds resturaunts and practically have to do the Cashier's job for him/her because half of them can't add a 1.98 French Fry to my 4 Southern Style Chicken Sandwiches (yes I eat that many and I am still only 140 pounds at 5' 10''). America's standards have slipped largely. I have been seeing a significant drop from the 80's (because I spend all my spare time researching randomness) in education. I have also seen a HUGE lack of motivation with kids these current decades as well. There are so many kids with potential that don't want to do anything but sit in front of a computer (I would love to do that too but I do have a motivation to do work..... so I can buy more computers and screens to sit in front of though lol). I have witnessed first hand kids who are PROUD of ACT scores of 10...... 10! The average College requires a 16-18 just for admittance. I got a 21 my first time and I am less than proud.... less than happy. I have gotten a 25 and I STILL am not happy (although I have a lot to work up to as my Sis got a 28 and my mom and dad both had 30). Anyways the fact that they are proud of a 10! means they are less than educated or just less than motivated.... or just plain stupid.

Either way though Psychology is not a sham.

I think part of the problem is what our educators are being allowed to teach rather than what they should be teaching. For example, I once got into a heated argument with my World History Professor in college over the Taliban bombing several of Afghanistan's ancient Buddhist temples. My argument was that by destroying the temples, they were destroying Afghanistan's cultural heritage and erasing it's identity, while his argument was they were justified because they were an offense to Islam. Not only did he actually give such an unthinking argument, but he wouldn't allow it to be brought up for debate, and let the class decide for themselves whether it was right or not.

My point is that education cannot and should not be biased in any way. Teachers shouldn't be teaching intelligent design and refusing to even cover evolution, or denying the Holocaust because they're pro-Palestine. If you pick and choose what you're going to teach based on your personal agenda, you're no longer educating, but rather indoctrinating.

[Alienized]

no one wants to do the hard DIRTY jobs anymore.
thats definetly a fact. everywhere in the world.
there are still people that dont care how *ugly* a work is they do it.
hell i had a engine-oil shower not only once.
it happens.


btw: america makes me sad and architects put it into a song.



even if you dont like the music, watching the vid and reading the lyrics is enough

[Alienized]

given, the better the graduation the easier it will be.
BUT something that slowly changes here in germany is that its not automatically a bonus.
if the companies see that he has good notes but is only good at theory then he will get nothing.

to me it seems that your complete school system is just bollocks. from scratch.
we have 3 chances to move on after elementary school but going to the highest and longest forms of them wont make you automatically smarter or gets you a higher % of getting a good job.

companies here gonna test you anyway. thats where you have to shine.
after i lost my job i was in a company that hires people to work somewhere. and they can send you anywhere they want or just kick you out again.
thats how i got into the company where i still work. full employed.
at start, as i wasnt full employed, it was a boring production job, 3 shifts. bad payment.
my daughter was just born, girlfriend couldnt work because of that.
each month was a battle. almost not enough money to feed us 3.

i took my chance and in the breaks when the machine stood still because it broke down (it was a testing machine) and out of pure boredom and because i was interested in that whole thing i helped getting it back to work or cleaned some stuff up somewhere. thats how it all started. out of nothing.
i got asked if i want to do different things too. and it all began to roll forward to what it is now.

its all about taking opportunities even tho you have to do stuff you dont like because it could be your last chance.
and you NEED to show motivation no matter how bad you feel, how much you dislike the situation or the work you have to do.
THAT IS massively lacking.

another thing that seem to happen is that people have no mental stability anymore.
they just give up when something doesnt work.
and when they give up the world crashes around them. its a bloody downward spiral.




i really feel sorry for you and what happened to your family. sucks that this happens in a country that can fight wars allover the earth.
i cant even tell you what my sister and older brother are doing.
nothing to do with them anymore. and i cant care less.
my family was always twisted and broken. i just wanted to get out of it and away. the only part of my family i have the most contact will always be my father and as i said, he lives far away.
when he had to move (because of my mother) i felt like alone. i was alone.
i still lived together with my mother and sisters but all the time no one cared.
thats when i started to care more about my friends and the other people around me because
living with heavy depressions is a complete nightmare. for 12 years now.
they still catch me and i have to write things like i just do so. i dont want this happening to anyone.

in the modern world there is no place for weakness. yet everyone has them. and dares to speak about it.

[Alienized]

Marack Drock, on 09 February 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

That's right. And there are just so many that are weak now.

the true weakness is that they never talk/write about it. it took me fkin ages to get there but it was a relief.

[Lily from animove]

and another issue of lost values, dirty jobs are considered to be less worthy and so it transformed to people doing it beeing seen as this too, often also paid poorly. And in reality most of those jobs actually are important for more basic stuff of our living than many "well paid glorious" jobs.

Aliisa White, on 09 February 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

in the modern world there is no place for weakness. yet everyone has them. and dares to speak about it.

well the modern world does care about weaknesses, but oly at a specific horrible degree, think about disabled charity stuff. but a big part of people between are just forgotten.


The modern sytsel is a system of lonlyness, bakc in the days when entire families over serveral generations lived together and all had a simple life (even if people worked form morning till evening) everyone as closer to eahc other and everyone had less stress.

No look out all the singles and people not even able to keep up a simple relation. And why? everyone cheats the hell out of himself onto others, reality is lost in a giant masquerade and when people finally get closer to each other the masquerade falls and all expectations fail. And with no family around as a fallback solution, lonlyness and depression and all the modern world **** kicks in. A thousends of generation proofes system thrown over baord by what? maybe 2 generations of modern world (because 2 generations ago, family was still "the thing") But mankind is not evolved to that live. And so all the naturally given habits are failing and education too, because no one educated those generations for this world in such a state. I wonder if society in this case really advanced, since it changed but doesn't looks like an imporvement.

your sentence about mental stability is what it is about, with a family in the back, fails were allowed, you had a fallback concept and security. But with modern education: "you are the best" "you can do everything", fail is not a educated concept. And so people do not lern to deal with failing. Then it's "always the others fault" because "I am great" and "I am the best." Stability in situations comes from experience, thats why you train emergency routines in case of an fire or accident, otherwise panick and helplesness would start to take place. But when it comes to failing, many people do not know how to deal with it, result, panick, helplessness, even worse. But then we invented all the psychologists now telling those people what our parents teached us back then.