86 replies to this topic

[EvilCow]

Gameplay affecting correctly stats, huge issue.

[xhrit]

Triordinant, on 08 February 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

The main objective of strategy and tactics in War is make a battle as unfair as possible so your side wins by dealing maximum casualties to the enemy while not taking any casualties yourself if at all possible.

The main objective of a free to play online game (or a mode in that game) is to have as many people playing it as possible by making it fun. For most PUGs, it isn't fun if it isn't a fair fight so they stop playing.

This is the difference between simulationists and gamists.
Gamists want fair and balanced [arena style] PvP, simulationists want realistic strategy and tactics in [open world style] PvP.

There is an entire game mode dedicated to fair and balanced gameist style play.
CW is for the simulationists.

[Basilisk222]

OP, As a PUG, and exclusively solo player in CW,


Really? Really?

You dishonor your clan.

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 09 February 2015 - 06:42 AM.

[HARDKOR]

If the solo cue is fair, then how come I can consistently get the top score in 3/4 of my games while grinding basic mechs? Seems very seal clubby to me. Most pub games are rolls and they hand damage out for minimal effort.

Been dropping a lot with MS lately and most of the games are very close. They almost always win, but it's no cakewalk. The pugs are almost as good as the units now IMHO.

OP is just mad that he can't find enough noobs to farm in CW.

Also, what is this "practice" you speak of? AFAIK people are just dropping into CW and calling targets. You can totally do same thing without being on coms, it's just not as easy.

[Ghogiel]

Well if CW is affecting stats, it should affect stats on wins not just loses, it's not affecting mine for wins that is for sure. I am not sure it is affecting mine for losses either, I only lost a few this week, and I deserved that as I was either solo or in a 2-3 man.

so the question is: Is CW really only affecting stats for losses and not for wins?

[Triordinant]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 February 2015 - 04:12 AM, said:

As a PUG I have to ask, Who's fault is it that You did not practice with the same players, hone your teamwork and then EXPECT to be an equal to a group who practices everyday? Cause as a PUG, I go into CW knowing full well that I will face steep odds and likely be hammered. I have not been disappointed.

It's nobody's "fault" but in online gaming you never match the untrained against the highly trained. It's also the same reason why little leaguers are never forced to fight against major league baseball teams. This isn't War where the objective is to stack the odds in your favor to get as lopsided a victory as possible; it's a Game and few will play it if it's not fair, just like in baseball.

[Triordinant]

xhrit, on 09 February 2015 - 06:08 AM, said:

This is the difference between simulationists and gamists.
Gamists want fair and balanced [arena style] PvP, simulationists want realistic strategy and tactics in [open world style] PvP.

There is an entire game mode dedicated to fair and balanced gameist style play.
CW is for the simulationists.

Based on how CW is designed, I agree -but I get the feeling that PGI does not. Details here.

[Ax2Grind]

Triordinant, on 09 February 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

It's nobody's "fault" but in online gaming you never match the untrained against the highly trained. It's also the same reason why little leaguers are never forced to fight against major league baseball teams. This isn't War where the objective is to stack the odds in your favor to get as lopsided a victory as possible; it's a Game and few will play it if it's not fair, just like in baseball.

So when you get beat in baseball you go write an article about how the other team was far more practiced than you and it's not fair? Scary. MWO is fair. Everyone has the same options and the games come down to how you use those options or the word most people call this - Skill. Your really going to have to find a better word than fair, because you are most certainly not using it correctly and you seem to not be in favor of facing enemies that may be of a higher skill level than you. MWO is not big enough for multiple leagues, nor is the skill difference great enough to warrant it. This is more like a bunch of little league players complaining about the top teams in their league. Because that's great sportsmanship.

[Triordinant]

Ax2Grind, on 09 February 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

So when you get beat in baseball you go write an article about how the other team was far more practiced than you and it's not fair? Scary. MWO is fair. Everyone has the same options and the games come down to how you use those options or the word most people call this - Skill. Your really going to have to find a better word than fair, because you are most certainly not using it correctly and you seem to not be in favor of facing enemies that may be of a higher skill level than you. MWO is not big enough for multiple leagues, nor is the skill difference great enough to warrant it. This is more like a bunch of little league players complaining about the top teams in their league. Because that's great sportsmanship.

Wrong. As I pointed out (read it again) this is like little league vs. major league. They don't go up against each other in the real world because it's not fair. Since you brought it up, the reason we have a small playerbase in the first place is because 18 months ago solo players started leaving in droves after being continuously curbstomped by major league premade teams. It only stopped after PGI belatedly created a solo-only queue, but by then it was too late and many who left never returned.

Edited by Triordinant, 09 February 2015 - 06:17 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

Triordinant, on 09 February 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

...little league vs. major league. They don't go up against each other in the real world because it's not fair.

This is incorrect. Minor leagues are created to support Major leagues by developing players. Not because "it is fair" to have a minor league.

[dervishx5]

If people cared about fairness in this game, we wouldn't have meta builds. Truism.

The downside to having the ability to yourself use those meta mechs means it drags everyone into using the same thing to MAXIMIZE VICTORY POTENTIAL. Not because challenges are fun, but because winning is. Doing the same thing over and over is boring, but that doesn't matter to some people

We have a word to describe those people, but even though I Try Hard to remember it, I can't seem to right now. This argument has been repeated over 228 times though, and Lords above, I can't see it ever stopping until we get some sort of Star of Mercs to help us against it.

Edited by dervishx5, 09 February 2015 - 10:28 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

dervishx5, on 09 February 2015 - 10:25 PM, said:

If people cared about fairness in this game, we wouldn't have meta builds. Truism.

The downside to having the ability to yourself use those meta mechs means it drags everyone into using the same thing to MAXIMIZE VICTORY POTENTIAL. Not because challenges are fun, but because winning is. Doing the same thing over and over is boring, but that doesn't matter to some people

We have a word to describe those people, but even though I Try Hard to remember it, I can't seem to right now. This argument has been repeated over 228 times though, and Lords above, I can't see it ever stopping until we get some sort of Star of Mercs to help us against it.

I see what you did there.

[Wingbreaker]

I can hear the goddamn suit now...

MAXIMUM VICTORY POTENTIAL.

[Caleb Brightmore]

Triordinant, on 09 February 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

It's nobody's "fault" but in online gaming you never match the untrained against the highly trained. It's also the same reason why little leaguers are never forced to fight against major league baseball teams. This isn't War where the objective is to stack the odds in your favor to get as lopsided a victory as possible; it's a Game and few will play it if it's not fair, just like in baseball.

But, But, But, "There's no crying in baseball!"

lol Sorry not trolling I just couldn't resist.

Now as to the OP's original post...Could someone please explain it because and again not being trollish and not trying to be funny this time I have no clue what he is talking about.

Affecting WHAT stats? Mech K/D? um I fail to see a reason for this thread, but enough people replied that I wish to know what I am clearly missing.

Edited by Caleb Brightmore, 09 February 2015 - 11:23 PM.

[Ghogiel]

Caleb Brightmore, on 09 February 2015 - 11:20 PM, said:

But, But, But, "There's no crying in baseball!"

lol Sorry not trolling I just couldn't resist.

Now as to the OP's original post...Could someone please explain it because and again not being trollish and not trying to be funny this time I have no clue what he is talking about.

Affecting WHAT stats? Mech K/D? um I fail to see a reason for this thread, but enough people replied that I wish to know what I am clearly missing.

CW is not affecting stats. At least not for the majority of players. There might be some bug though but at the moment no one has confirmed this is happening. Most people probably takes anything the op says with a large pinch of salt.

[Caleb Brightmore]

Ghogiel, on 10 February 2015 - 12:31 AM, said:

CW is not affecting stats. At least not for the majority of players. There might be some bug though but at the moment no one has confirmed this is happening. Most people probably takes anything the op says with a large pinch of salt.

Thank you Sir,

Heeds advice and returns to in game mode, as it is more satisfying.

[Gyrok]

Triordinant, on 08 February 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

I do not complain about losing a match in the solo-only queue because I know it's a fair fight. Don't put words in my mouth. We beat PUG teams with members of competitive Units in them as often as we lose to them because it's a fair fight. Best of all, most matches I play in the solo-only queue are close, winning or losing 12-9 or thereabouts.

No, it is not fair because ELO does not match by individual, it matches by average.

Also, most of my solo queue games are stomps so epically short it makes a 12-4 in the group queue look like a battle royale.

Either way...there will never be ELO in CW. It is first come, first served, and it is catered mostly to groups that can field teams.

Sort of like how in Solaris you run around and pew pew by yourself against many.

In actual war, you need buddies for that, and militia is terribad compared to an organized army unit.

[Gyrok]

Triordinant, on 09 February 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

Wrong. As I pointed out (read it again) this is like little league vs. major league. They don't go up against each other in the real world because it's not fair. Since you brought it up, the reason we have a small playerbase in the first place is because 18 months ago solo players started leaving in droves after being continuously curbstomped by major league premade teams. It only stopped after PGI belatedly created a solo-only queue, but by then it was too late and many who left never returned.

No it is not major and minor league.

It is like the American militias against the Army of the British Empire circa 1775.

The difference is, this is war. If you were the organized army, you would roll over militia when you could and expect to do so. It is what it is.

War is not fair, Solaris is fair.

If you want to solo pug, fine...Solaris/Solo queue is the kiddie pool. If you want to win in war, you join an army.

[JadeTimberwolf]

I recommend reading Sun Tsu's The Art Of War before playing another combat based game.

That out of the way I solo drop alot and in a pure pug group I have seen a full 12 man fall, using the same tech even (clan v clan in one case). Here is how this happens before the drop starts someone says ts info and the PuGs actually hop on and work together giving the allusion of an organized team.

Now as far as affecting stats, we don't have actual character stats here like we would in tabletop and our losses aren't affecting that, ELO isn't counted as far as I can tell with teambuilding because of the limited number of players dropping in CW, adding in ELO would just make Ghost Drops a more common occurrence.

[Triordinant]

Gyrok, on 10 February 2015 - 07:16 AM, said:

No it is not major and minor league.

It is like the American militias against the Army of the British Empire circa 1775.

The difference is, this is war. If you were the organized army, you would roll over militia when you could and expect to do so. It is what it is.

War is not fair, Solaris is fair.

If you want to solo pug, fine...Solaris/Solo queue is the kiddie pool. If you want to win in war, you join an army.

Now that I think about it, even a little league team is still a team, with training schedules, coaches, etc. No, this situation is more like random people who've met for the first time in the sandlot and have never practiced together (one or two might not have even played baseball before) vs. professional baseball teams. As for the War analogy, remember this post you Liked?