31 replies to this topic

[MauttyKoray]

Anakha, on 09 February 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

So I think we need to improve the Clan UAC either through reducing the number of rounds or increasing the velocity significantly. The IS AC get single shot but the clan AC get burst and even with this burst the same velocity which makes them a significantly sup par weapon to use. I think if we reduced them to 2 rounds for the uac2, uac5, and uac10, and maybe 4 for the uac10 that would help significantly. I also think that since their burst they need to have a much higher velocity than the IS single shot AC.

Thoughts?

Last I heard they were going to make IS ACs multi-shot bursts too... Something about 1 bullet per 5 damage, so 5 would be 1, 10 would be 2, and 20 would be 4. AC/2 was a different story, haven't heard yet.

My opinion is that they should do 2 round bursts, and half their damage per round. So 2 would do 1 damage, 5 would do 2.5, 10 does 5, and 20 does 10. That way each AC is stronger than the last in a scaling way but they still have the potential to spread damage. I think part of the problem with Clan ACs is that we have so many shots in a single volley that the hit detection goes whacky and doesn't count it all sometimes. Plus the duration of the bursts are huge which makes them extremely inaccurate.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 09 February 2015 - 08:12 PM.

[Navid A1]

Mister D, on 09 February 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:

Shortening the burst would be the better option IMO.
Same ROF, same DPS, same shell count, just that each shell in the burst should be closer together.

Especially on the UAC-20.

Oh, and the Jam rate on the UAC-2 is ******* ********.

MWO already has issues with number of hits per server tick which results in lost projectiles... So.. no faster bursts.. its not an option.

Its quite the opposite actually. If clan UACs use one less shell with 20% faster projectile speed, you will hit 3 birds with one stone: 1- less spread for UACs / 2- less blinding effects / 3 - less hits per server tick (more reliable hitreg)

Edited by Navid A1, 09 February 2015 - 08:15 PM.

[Destructicus]

I don't know
I do fine with my c-uacs
What they make up for direct damage they make up for in suppression and dps
I think they're fine at this point

you ever get slammed with a dakkawolf?
you can't see shiznit

[MauttyKoray]

Destructicus, on 09 February 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

I don't know
I do fine with my c-uacs
What they make up for direct damage they make up for in suppression and dps
I think they're fine at this point

you ever get slammed with a dakkawolf?
you can't see shiznit

That's the major issue with them though. They cause terrible FPS drop to the person getting hit (lets face it, not everyone has a great computer and not everyone can run it on max settings), constant impulse, and their suppression isn't due to damage output, its due to the degradation of a player's ingame experience when they die because their game dropped to unresponsive levels.

Dropping the ACs to 2 round bursts I think would solve this issue, keep their damage spread, while still being more practical than the many shot ACs we have now, and not as overpowered in comparison to the IS ACs PPFLD. Impulse can then be adjusted as needed, as the impulse they have now seem to be tested for having 1-2 of the weapon, not 4+ like the Dakkawolf.

[Destructicus]

MauttyKoray, on 09 February 2015 - 08:44 PM, said:

That's the major issue with them though. They cause terrible FPS drop to the person getting hit (lets face it, not everyone has a great computer and not everyone can run it on max settings), constant impulse, and their suppression isn't due to damage output, its due to the degradation of a player's ingame experience when they die because their game dropped to unresponsive levels.

Dropping the ACs to 2 round bursts I think would solve this issue, keep their damage spread, while still being more practical than the many shot ACs we have now, and not as overpowered in comparison to the IS ACs PPFLD. Impulse can then be adjusted as needed, as the impulse they have now seem to be tested for having 1-2 of the weapon, not 4+ like the Dakkawolf.

so if you got shot in the chest with a .357 would you not shake and jolt a bit?
Suppression is a part of the game
I'm not debating it's disruptive, that's kind of the point
if your computer can't handle it, it's not the issue
this game isn't fully optimized yet and a lot of us suffer from that even with beefier machines, hell this is the only game I've ever had issue with and I know what my machine can take
I believe as much as anyone this game needs to run smoother on shrimper machines, but wanting to remove this mechanic from the game is just silly

Edited by Destructicus, 09 February 2015 - 09:25 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

Destructicus, on 09 February 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

so if you got shot in the chest with a .357 would you not shake and jolt a bit?
Suppression is a part of the game
I'm not debating it's disruptive, that's kind of the point
if your computer can't handle it, it's not the issue
this game isn't fully optimized yet and a lot of us suffer from that even with beefier machines, hell this is the only game I've ever had issue with and I know what my machine can take
I believe as much as anyone this game needs to run smoother on shrimper machines, but wanting to remove this mechanic from the game is just silly

The difference is the number of bullets creating that Impulse. I'm not saying remove the mechanic. The Dakkawolf for instance, 5UAC5s fire 3 rounds per volley, the IS only fires 1. You get hit with 3 x .033 Impulse with clan UAC5, while only 1 x .040 with the IS UAC5. While the IS UAC 5 rocks you ONCE, the Clan UAC5 rocks you THREE times. Meaning the Dakkawolf is rocking you a ridiculous 15 times and creating 15 times the particles and effects that an IS UAC5 does.

If the Clan (U)ACs were uniformed at 2 shots per volley, damage would scale reasonably making the ACs scale in power vs range (not just worse with more spread), and would both reduce the effects/particles (in the case of the Dakkawolf, 10 instance versus 15 which is a significant reduction for people who have the issues) and reduce the CONSTANT impulse effect from their use. I'm not saying make getting hit with a shell LESS forceful, I'm saying it will reduce the number of instances it occurs within a span of time. IS (U)ACs will cause impulse one per volley, while Clan will cause 2 impulse reactions per volley, versus the 3-5 they do now. In fact, with the reduced number of Impulse caused, you may actually be able to INCREASE the impulse for Clan (U)ACs then. The CUAC5 may actually be viable at something like .035 or .036 impulse.

[Destructicus]

MauttyKoray, on 09 February 2015 - 09:40 PM, said:

The difference is the number of bullets creating that Impulse. I'm not saying remove the mechanic. The Dakkawolf for instance, 5UAC5s fire 3 rounds per volley, the IS only fires 1. You get hit with 3 x .033 Impulse with clan UAC5, while only 1 x .040 with the IS UAC5. While the IS UAC 5 rocks you ONCE, the Clan UAC5 rocks you THREE times. Meaning the Dakkawolf is rocking you a ridiculous 15 times and creating 15 times the particles and effects that an IS UAC5 does.

If the Clan (U)ACs were uniformed at 2 shots per volley, damage would scale reasonably making the ACs scale in power vs range (not just worse with more spread), and would both reduce the effects/particles (in the case of the Dakkawolf, 10 instance versus 15 which is a significant reduction for people who have the issues) and reduce the CONSTANT impulse effect from their use. I'm not saying make getting hit with a shell LESS forceful, I'm saying it will reduce the number of instances it occurs within a span of time. IS (U)ACs will cause impulse one per volley, while Clan will cause 2 impulse reactions per volley, versus the 3-5 they do now. In fact, with the reduced number of Impulse caused, you may actually be able to INCREASE the impulse for Clan (U)ACs then. The CUAC5 may actually be viable at something like .035 or .036 impulse.

doing that would almost be too much for the IS though
Part of the trade off for CUACs is that the damage is spread around.
damage being spread between 2 hits is too close to PP dmg
2 CUAC10+PPC hits to the ct is still 10 points of damage plus ppc damage to the ct in addition to the spread ppc damage+ the other 50% of UAC damage to other components in addition to the additional ppc damage.
lowering the impulse would be reasonable, but it's always going to be there and people are always going to complain about it.

Edited by Destructicus, 09 February 2015 - 11:11 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

Destructicus, on 09 February 2015 - 11:10 PM, said:

doing that would almost be too much for the IS though
Part of the trade off for CUACs is that the damage is spread around.
damage being spread between 2 hits is too close to PP dmg
2 CUAC10+PPC hits to the ct is still 10 points of damage plus ppc damage to the ct in addition to the spread ppc damage+ the other 50% of UAC damage to other components in addition to the additional ppc damage.
lowering the impulse would be reasonable, but it's always going to be there and people are always going to complain about it.

Compared to the IS doing 20 points of AC10 damage+PPC hits to the CT? Um...?

Its not just CUACs, as CACs also follow the number of rounds per burst. The trade of for CUACs is that you can fire them faster (before full cooldown) but with a chance to jam them.

I still feel the reduction to 2 round bursts on all C(U)ACs would benefit the impulse/effect overload, the server's hitreg, the damage spread and weapon to a useful state, and still keep the PPFLD from being guaranteed.

I also however feel the IS should be included in this mechanic, or given this mechanic (2 round bursts on all but the AC2 at least) if the Clan's is kept as-is. Currently in a straight up IS vs Clan fight between each weapon the IS has a pure advantage because they do more DPS (the cooldown on C(U)ACs doesn't start until the burst ends) and have the PPFLD.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 09 February 2015 - 11:46 PM.

[Blue Shadow]

I agree with MauttyKoray, a 2 round burst on all C-ACs would be best and the smaller the AC the shorter the burst is. The CUAC-20 in particular needs this fix!

[Destructicus]

I guess I just don't the recent influx of clan players thinking everything is so hard.
Silly me wanting a difference between factions.
I understand not all computers can handle the stream of impulse but wanting to alter game mechanics to better suit lower end specs is a bit silly.
I guess the difference here is that I like impulse and suppression and you feel it's ruining certain aspects of the game.

[Roadkill]

Fate 6, on 09 February 2015 - 07:43 PM, said:

Meanwhile, clan AC2 is actually more crits. AC5 is not significantly different in crits either. Yes, clan ACs are lighter, but we don't want them to work exactly like IS ACs and that's not what we're saying here. We want them to be more functional though, because right now the only mech worth taking clan ACs on is the Dire Whale because you put so many rounds down range that the spread hardly matters. Right now clan ACs are "working as intended". That is to say, smart clanners take Gauss.

The point:   .

You:        \o/

Straight up Clan ACs don't exist in TT. The ones in MWO are abominations created to fill a gap because PGI can't figure out how to allow LBX ACs to toggle between pellet and slug ammo. If you're using ACs as the basis of your comparison, you're doing it wrong. I was using the term "AC" in a generic sense, not a specific sense, which for the Clans means the Ultra Autocannon.

AC/2s are bad enough for both factions as to be irrelevant to the discussion.

So back to the point... Clan ACs (sorry, UACs) in MWO cannot be as good as IS ACs because they are lighter and take up fewer crits. If they were as good they'd be OP. You're supposed to add a laser to compensate. The Clans are about combined arms. The IS is about boating. Furthermore, the Clans are supposed to be high skill high reward. If you're actually a good shot, Clan UACs are clearly superior to IS ACs, again because they are lighter and use fewer crits. But you have to be good enough to land all of the shells in the same location. High skill, high reward.

[MauttyKoray]

Destructicus, on 10 February 2015 - 08:27 AM, said:

I guess I just don't the recent influx of clan players thinking everything is so hard.
Silly me wanting a difference between factions.
I understand not all computers can handle the stream of impulse but wanting to alter game mechanics to better suit lower end specs is a bit silly.
I guess the difference here is that I like impulse and suppression and you feel it's ruining certain aspects of the game.

Don't get me wrong, I want Impulse, but the constant stunlock duration of it needs to be toned down a bit. The 3-5 hits versus 2 hits per (U)AC would keep Impulse under control and possibly even allow the impulse to be turned UP per round, making it feel more like you're getting hit with big metal slugs and less like you're getting plinked away by BBs that are somehow doing massive damage..

The performance problem doesn't come from the impulse, it comes from the Effects and Particles created when the round hits the mech. Having 2 instances of this versus 3-5 instances currently would improve performance for those having the issues.