9 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

so thinking about Omni-Mech Quirks,
and how they could work and differ from Battle-Mechs,
(not just Clan Omni's but the Eventual IS Omni's too),

in this Topic ill discuss,
1) Omni/Battle Mechs and Quriks,
2) the 2 Community Purposed Solutions,
3) the Combined Third Solution,
4) Examples(Nova Quriks)


1) =Omni-Mechs, Battle-Mechs & Quirks in MWO=
MWO Omni-Mechs are mechs that can swop out Omni-Pods, 1 for each location,
what ever hardpoints are within that location are stored in that Variants Omni-Pods,
this allows Omni-Mechs to customize their hardpoints, between different Variants,
however Omni-mechs cant change their engines or Upgrades,
-
Battle-mechs on the other hand can change their Engine, Upgrades, and Equipment,
everything but their hardpoints, they also usually have a variant for each style of play,
the catch is you need to buy each variant to have all bases covered,
-
now onto Quirks, for Battle-mechs their Quirks are to the variant,
each variant having a place and purpose to the mech and its chassis line,
but for an Omni-mech i dont think this would work, Why?
-
because as an Omni Mech you can swop out hardpoints for others,
so if one variant gets -20% heat gen Quirk with MPL but can only hold 6E,
a player could always swop the hard points out to be able to mount 10E,
so quirking by variant could be hard to balance and to control,


2a) =The First Solution, Omni-Mech Chassis Locked Quirks=
now a possible solution is Omni-pod Chassis locked Quirks,
this means you have to have all 8 Omni-pods of the set equipped to gain the full bonus,
so if the chassis quirk says your mech will get -30% heat gen for the Chassis,
not having all 8 Omni-pods of the set equipped will only net you -15% or -30,
-
the problem with this solution is i feel it would limit an Omni's customization,
and if they are planing to make a mixed build(the best part of an Omni-mech),
players would be penalized with getting only half of the benefits of the mech by mixing it,
most players would likely only keep the variant they feel will give the most benefit,
and sell the rest as they have little need for those Omni-mechs,


2b) =The Second Solution, Omni-Mech Pod Locked Quirks=
now onto another possible solution having Omni-pod linked Quirks,
Quirks attached to Omni-pods, this gives flexibility and benefit to the Omni-mech,
but again their is always the problem of Mini/Maxing using pods to stack bonuses,
this is abit of the problem and leads to another possible solution,
-
this solution is Omni-pod Location locked Quirks,
this means that if an arm has 3E at -30% heat gen, only those 3E will get -30%,
now i dont agree with this as i feel its abit too limiting but it could work,
personally i would rather keep quirks global and thats my bias,
even though i disagree, i do feel its a good idea non the less,


3) =The Third Combined Solution, A Balanced Both=
after looking over the First two Purposed Solutions i thought,
i may not agree with both, but both are good ideas, so why not use both?
so have Omni-pods attached to both the Variant and the Omni-pods,
-
i feel that Omni-mechs should get CT Variant Quirks,
and having all 8 Omni-pods of the Omni-Set gives the full Quirk bonus,
having less that all 8 of the Omni-set would only give half the Quirk bonuses,
-
but individual Omni-pods should have Quirks as well,
but all locations with Hardpoints have Weapon Quirk Bonuses,
and all Weapon Quirk Bonuses are locked to the Omni-Pod location,
EX. Arm Weapon Quirks will only affect weapons in that Arm,
-
i feel this will lesson Mini/Maxing and some Stacking Problems,
here are examples of how i see both working together,


4) =Examples=
NVA-P= -10% Heat Gen Quirk(Global)(8/8)
-CT- +10% Heat Thresh-hold(Stacks) Quirk
-HD- +5% Heat Thresh-hold(Stacks) Quirk
-LT- +10% Turn Angle(Stacks) Quirk
-RT- +10% Turn Angle(Stacks) Quirk
-LA- 6E) -10% LA Heat Gen Quirk
-RA- 6E) -10% RA Heat Gen Quirk
-LL- +5% Heat Thresh-hold(Stacks) Quirk
-RL- +5% Heat Thresh-hold(Stacks) Quirk
(Heat Thresh-hold and Turn angle for Skirmishing)
(with Main&Arm Quirks ER-ML gens 4.8 heat per ER-ML)

NVA-B= 20% Torso Turn-Angle Quirk(Global)(8/8)
-CT- +10% Torso Turn-Angle(Stacks) Quirk
-HD- +10% Turn-Speed(Stacks) Quirk
-LT- 2B) +5% Acceleration/Deceleration(Stacks) Quirk
-RT- 1E) +5% Acceleration/Deceleration(Stacks) Quirk
-LA- 1E) +50% LA Energy Range Quirk
-RA- 1B) +50% RA Ballistic Velocity Quirk
-LL- +5% Acceleration/Deceleration(Stacks) Quirk
-RL- +5% Acceleration/Deceleration(Stacks) Quirk
(Acceleration/Deceleration and Turn angle for maneuverability)
(with Arm Quirks for aiding Distance Builds and Hitting fast)

NVA-S= +20% Armor(Hp) Quirk(Global)(8/8)
-CT- 1AMS) +10% AMS Range/CT Structure(Hp) Quirk
-HD- +15% Structure(Hp) Quirk
-LT- 2B) +15% LT Structure(Hp) Quirk
-RT- 2B) +15% RT Structure(Hp) Quirk
-LA- 3E) +50% LA Energy Range Quirk
-RA- 3E) +50% RA Energy Range Quirk
-LL- +15% LLeg Structure(Hp) Quirk
-RL- +15% RLeg Structure(Hp) Quirk
(Structure and Armor for Brawling)
(Energy Range for MPL= 495m)

NVA-A= 20% Heat Thresh-hold Quirk(Global)(8/8)
-CT- 10% Heat Displacement(Stacks) Quirk
-HD- 5% Heat Displacement(Stacks) Quirk
-LT- 1E, 1AMS) +10% AMS Range Quirk
-RT- 1AMS) +10% AMS Range Quirk
-LA- 1E) +50% LA ER-PPC Velocity Quirk
-RA- 1E) +50% RA ER-PPC Velocity Quirk
-LL- +5% JumpJet Capacity(Stacks) Quirk
-RL- +5% JumpJet Capacity(Stacks) Quirk
(JumpJet and AMS Quirks for getting around safely)
(with Arm Quirks for aiding sniping Builds & Hitting fast)

i believe this system would help with Clan Balance,
as well as give Hard-point-less Omni-pods Purpose,


All the Quirk Values are meant as place holders,
and dont represent the values or Views of PGI,

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Edit- Added Sections understanding,
Edit2- cut unneeded sections out,
Edit3- reworked and reworded,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 11 February 2015 - 10:38 AM.

[FupDup]

Your post was kinda long and not super-well formatted, so I kinda skipped most of it. So instead, I'll just post what my own ideas for Omnimech quirks are:


1. Instead of +X% WhateverGun and +X% AllGuns split quirks like the IS has, I'd rather have something like "+X% WeaponsSameFamily." For example, this might be "+X% SRM Cooldown," which would affect all SRM tube sizes. Or perhaps "-Y% Large Class Energy Weapon Durations," which would reduce the burn time on the ERLL and LPL (also future guns like HLL and ERLPL). Or "+Z% Class 5 Autocannon Velocity," which would affect the LB 5-X and UAC/5. Etc.

2. Instead of tying quirks to an entire chassis, I think that Omnimechs should tie most of their quirks to individual pods. The quirks of each pod would take into account their role in relation to the stock loadout. For example, an Adder A's energy side torsos might have faster Small Class Energy Weapon Cooldowns, because they were intended to provide self-defense for the arm-mounted LRMs. Etc.

3. To throw a bone to people who want to try to use "pure" Omnipod sets, I think that the most powerful quirks should only activate when you have a full 8/8 set. You'd still get quirks for playing Mister Potatohead, but not as drastic as attempting to use the often gimped stock hardpoints.

Edited by FupDup, 10 February 2015 - 07:39 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

Quirks on omnipods that only affect the weapons/equipment on the omnipods would be my idea. While quirks on the CT would also cover the entire mech, with possible specific CT only quirks like the other omnipods for weapons only on the CT (if any).

So you'd have quirks on the CT that applied to the variant and all omnipods equipped to it, and then quirks on each individual omnipod that only affected weapons/equipment on that omnipods.

Lets say the Nova's 6E arm, Energy on it get -10% energy heatgen(Omnipod). ONLY those SIX hardpoints on that arm will get that -10% heatgen bonus. Meanwhile, the CT might give -5% energy heatgen(Mech) for the WHOLE mech. So the Hardpoints on the arm would get -15% energy heatgen total. Now lets say the left arm has the 3E arm, and give it only -5% heatgen(Omnipod). Thus the left arm would get a total of -10% heatgen on the weapons on the left arm.

Let use the Ice Ferret's CT energy. Say you want heatgen to apply to the mech as a whole -10% energy heatgen(Mech), however you want to increase the laser's range or cooldown just for that CT. You could also give the CT -7.5% cooldown(Omnipod) on that omnipod, and if you want it to affect the other omnipods, but not an omnipod from another variant, you can also add -7.5% cooldown(Omnipod) to something like the arm as well.

It may be harder to code, but I think it would make the omnimech quirks much more dynamic and useful while not worrying about having 2 large, stacking quirks that would overpower any specific omnipod combination.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 10 February 2015 - 07:51 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

@FupDup
ya sorry about the flow, but you know how my topics go,
1) i post it writing down topic adding in all my brain storming,
2) wake next morning look at topic, spit up my coffee wondering what i was thinking,
3) rewrite it once or twice or trice or more till everyone can understand it,
?) somewhere in between get yelled at by FupDup, Bishop, Ect,...

anyway,
ya your idea is allot like what i above, just um summarized,
and not as over complicated,... well,... now i just feel silly,....
thanks for making me feel silly FupDup,

[kapusta11]

http://remlab.source...mlab30/mech.lab

You see any limitations? I don't.

If you, as a developer, failed to keep one of the key features of the game (customization) then you should shoot yourself, really.

Edited by kapusta11, 11 February 2015 - 11:00 AM.

[RedDevil]

I think only some clan mechs could use quirks, not all. Nova would be a great energy quirk mech, as its arms are so low that it can't really take advantage of poptarting or peaking as well as high mount mechs can. Plus its hitboxes almost seem larger than the actual model, lol.

Summoner could probably use even more help. The rest of the clan mechs are pretty good though aren't they?

[Metus regem]

I'd be happy, if they made the quirks locked to pod sets, like to get all the quirks, then you need to have everything but the CT be of the same set.

For example, to use the 50% heat reduction to ERPPC on the TRD-9S as example:

(7/7) 50% cERPPC heat reduction
(6/7) 42%
(5/7) 35%
(4/7) 28%
(3/7) 21%
(2/7) 14%
(1/7) 7%

A setup like this, I think would still let other pod sets be viable, and not lock us into one "accepted" build, like we have now, that makes me sick to see almost everyone using the same cookie-cutter builds.

[Lily from animove]

sry but i don't think you have really thought those values through,

+15% structure thts pitiful 3.6 hp, won't help, compare what other mechs gotten on the IS and how they are shaped. below 8Strucure you don't even need to start.

50% range for energy? SERIOUSLY? CERLL or CLPL with 50% range? this is bordelrine between crazy and mad and would on many maps not even work. ir was ok for IS to get similar extreme buffs because clanners have by nature longer rangs.

think about it, you give both 3 E arms 50% range, +50% rang on cerml, CMPL or even if someone now uses 4xCERLL is truly not how it should be.

and the PPC, well dunno i doubt 50% ppc velocity will make someone say: woah epic, gonna us it. If any with the ne Nova variant, poeple will use th 22 PPC varianst with PPC's in the sidetorsi.

Andi Nagasia, on 11 February 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

@FupDup
ya sorry about the flow, but you know how my topics go,
1) i post it writing down topic adding in all my brain storming,
2) wake next morning look at topic, spit up my coffee wondering what i was thinking,
3) rewrite it once or twice or trice or more till everyone can understand it,
?) somewhere in between get yelled at by FupDup, Bishop, Ect,...

anyway,
ya your idea is allot like what i above, just um summarized,
and not as over complicated,... well,... now i just feel silly,....
thanks for making me feel silly FupDup,

sry in that case, better write it in any editor file and reread it the next day before making a brainstorm thread

[Andi Nagasia]

Metus regem, on 11 February 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

I'd be happy, if they made the quirks locked to pod sets, like to get all the quirks, then you need to have everything but the CT be of the same set.

For example, to use the 50% heat reduction to ERPPC on the TRD-9S as example:

(7/7) 50% cERPPC heat reduction
(6/7) 42%
(5/7) 35%
(4/7) 28%
(3/7) 21%
(2/7) 14%
(1/7) 7%

A setup like this, I think would still let other pod sets be viable, and not lock us into one "accepted" build, like we have now, that makes me sick to see almost everyone using the same cookie-cutter builds.

i like this idea but im not sure how it would work for lesser avrages, would you mind me adding this to the topic?

Lily from animove, on 11 February 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

sry in that case, better write it in any editor file and reread it the next day before making a brainstorm thread

hind sight is 20/20, lols,

[Metus regem]

Andi Nagasia, on 11 February 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

i like this idea but im not sure how it would work for lesser avrages, would you mind me adding this to the topic?

Sure.

Lets say, we take a Warhawk prime, so if it has 7/7 (Head, L/R Arms, L/R Torso, L/R Legs), then it sees the full % of the pod set for what ever quirks it gets for cERPPC's. Now let's say we give it the B side torso, A pod head and A pod legs, well then the percentages would be downgraded to reflect that dispursion of pods, so it would be okay with a weapon mix that that load out supports, but it wouldn't be as good in that role as a unit with all of the 'correct' pods.

The percentages would be based off of what ever the number is divided by 7, the number of omni-pods that can be swapped on an omni-mech.