26 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

so there is a question the Community has been asking,
how will IS OmniMechs and Clan BattleMechs stack up,

most feel IS OmniMechs will be crap with Omni-Restrictions,
most feel Clan BattleMechs will be OP with BattleMech-Freedom,


=So I Have a Question?=
To keep both sides feeling Different and Unique,
how about changing up some Mechs Types,

First, Make all Clan BattleMechs as OmniMechs,
this would keep Clan BattleMechs from being OverPowered,
as they would follow Omni-Rules, and help Maintain balance,

Then, Make all IS OmniMechs as BattleMechs,
this would keep IS OmniMechs from being UnderPowered,
giving them BattleMech hardpoint inflation to Maintain balance,

I feel doing this would Help With and Aid Balance,
Wail also helping Maintain Diversity between Forces,
keeping both sides Unique and keeping tech separate,

=Your Thoughts=
But what does the Community think about this?
Would you like to keep BattleMechs as IS Exclusives?
Wail also Keeping Omni-Mechs as Clan Exclusives?
=Discuss=


=Clan IIC Mechs=
this also means that Clan IIC mechs would be implemented as OmniMechs
but with out their hardpoint inflation, making them more balanced as Omni's,

=Locust IIC=
and because all Clan IIC mechs look Unique,
appearing different than their IS counter parts,

Spoiler

Make the Flea Concept the Locust IIC instead?

a Locust IIC(25Ton) as an Omni with a C-200XL Endo & Ferro=
8Free Tons, 10DHS(8Engine), and go 129.6kph,(no JumpJets),
And no it wouldnt have MASC so it wouldnt have a Problem,
also LCT-IIC 1-2-3 all come out at or before 2853,

Now just in case,

(Thanks FupDup)

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Edit- added Spoiler,
Edit2- Locust IIC notes,
Edit3- New LCT IIC Pic,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 12 February 2015 - 01:58 PM.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

Do we need them?

[Johnny Z]

Honestly I hope they get the current balance right and then let the character of the Omni mechs and Battlemechs be. Adding select mechs as the game goes and adding alot more mech customization, example being like, new betty voice options, new gun sound effects like muzzles and what not(OMG THE AC 2 IS ANNOYING AND THE AC 5 WOULD PAY NEARLY ANY MC PRICE TO DAMPEN THE OBSCENE SOUND EFFECTS, GOT VOLUME OFF ITS SO LOUD AND CANT HEAR ANYTHING ELSE IN GAME), unique geometry etc.

[Andi Nagasia]

Personally i feel OmniMechs should be Clan Exclusive and BattleMechs should be IS Exclusive,
i feel it would give the Game more of a Us vs Them / Human vs Alien mentality, for both sides,

for IS your not just Fighting a Human but an Alien, with Odd vehicles the likes you've never seen,
for Clan your not just fighting a Rival but a Primitive, with Primitive machines, testing your Pride,

[MauttyKoray]

Hm, I think I would keep the Omni and Battlemech design choices we currently have.

Ideas:

IS Omni
-Use Omnipods system (locked internals/equipment too, like JJs!)
-Allow Endo/FF? (IS stuff is heavier remember)
-Restrict to stock engine (would go along with the locked internals/equipment)
What else?

Clan Battlemechs
-Get rid of Locked Internals
-Restrict Endo/Ferro (Clan stuff is lighter and engine swap will allow for more/less tonnage)
-Allow Engine Swap
What elsE?

Andi Nagasia, on 11 February 2015 - 10:23 PM, said:

Personally i feel OmniMechs should be Clan Exclusive and BattleMechs should be IS Exclusive,
i feel it would give the Game more of a Us vs Them / Human vs Alien mentality, for both sides,

for IS your not just Fighting a Human but an Alien, with Odd vehicles the likes you've never seen,
for Clan your not just fighting a Rival but a Primitive, with Primitive machines, testing your Pride,

Clan Battlemechs existed long before Clan Omnis and will eventually make it ingame...

IS Omnis were part of the reason they were able to repel the clans along with Lostech weaponry being developed.

Deal with it...they're coming eventually.

[Brody319]

I think they should add Clan battle mechs, but have them with more restricted engine options, some but not to the level of their counterparts. And should have less inflated hardpoints, not taking a mech with 3 energy hardpoints total, and giving it 8, maybe 5-6.

IS omnimechs should just be the same as their Clan counterparts. The restriction of a hardlocked XL engine, will keep them in balance.

[STEF_]

A lot of these 2 kind of mechs are iconic and cool.

MauttyKoray's options seem reasonable to me.

Also, it's time for PGI to do a mind storm about MASC.
"We don't know how to make it work" is unacceptable: it's your work to find a solution.
MASC is been implemented in a lot of previous MW... quite ridicolus we still cannot have it, with all those mechs.

[Brody319]

Stefka Kerensky, on 11 February 2015 - 11:01 PM, said:

A lot of these 2 kind of mechs are iconic and cool.

MauttyKoray's options seem reasonable to me.

Also, it's time for PGI to do a mind storm about MASC.
"We don't know how to make it work" is unacceptable: it's your work to find a solution.
MASC is been implemented in a lot of previous MW... quite ridicolus we still cannot have it, with all those mechs.

thats not very accurate. the problem isn't so much them being unable too, but the game's engine being restrictive and starting to glitch out at higher speeds. mechs going above 180kph start breaking down the engine. many MASC mechs break that speed limit, or would have high enough engine caps that would allow them to break the speed limit. So they can either make a substitute solution or restrict MASC to only mechs that cannot break the speed limit. neither of which is a really optimal solution.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just want to add. I think if PGI is unwilling to allow battlemechs in clans, or omnimechs in IS, they could always make some mechs fit those roles. Such as taking 3 variants, giving them hardpoints, then cutting them up into omnipods for Clans, and making the IS omnimechs into regular battlemechs.

[STEF_]

Brody319, on 11 February 2015 - 11:10 PM, said:

thats not very accurate. the problem isn't so much them being unable too, but the game's engine being restrictive and starting to glitch out at higher speeds. mechs going above 180kph start breaking down the engine. many MASC mechs break that speed limit, or would have high enough engine caps that would allow them to break the speed limit. So they can either make a substitute solution or restrict MASC to only mechs that cannot break the speed limit. neither of which is a really optimal solution.

Yes, I know that about the game engine limit.
For that reason, ANY solution about MASC is ok for me, so to have those mechs equipped with masc.
It's not optimal, of course, but what else? It's better to see those mech having a low end solution masc than not seeing at all.
We are risking that PGI could say the same answer about clan battlemech and IS omnimech: "We don't know how to balance them"....


edit: and, imo, "we don't know how to do masc" it's only a PGI fake apology. Because mwo is already largely away from TT.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 11 February 2015 - 11:21 PM.

[Brody319]

Stefka Kerensky, on 11 February 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:

Yes, I know that about the game engine limit.
For that reason, ANY solution about MASC is ok for me, so to have those mechs equipped with masc.
It's not optimal, of course, but what else? It's better to see those mech having a low end solution masc than not seeing at all.
We are risking that PGI could say the same answer about clan battlemech and IS omnimech: "We don't know how to balance them"....


edit: and, imo, "we don't know how to do masc" it's only a PGI fake apology. Because mwo is already largely away from TT.

yea and how many times do we have Lore-zis come in and tell everyone why the game is wrong despite how far we are from the lore its pretty much pointless at this point.

They have to please as many people as they can. and I think we can all agree this is a rather grumpy community, not as bad as a large majority of others, but it is grumpy, then you have the reddit side...which can only be described as the reddit side.

point is, the issue of MASC has been discussed a lot, and its unlikely people will come together for one solution or PGI would have already put some of these mechs in. So if you want MASC, I suggest trying to convince people of a solution where it doesn't break the 180 speed limit, then telling russ on twitter.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Well, MASC can be made into a Sprint type action. Since this is the CryEngine,I do not see why, if the sprint code is still there, to simply make use of it, to incorporate MASC.

So (if we keep Speed Tweak and for example get the Flea), it would likely have an engine cap at 140, which is a max speed of ~113 KPH and a MASC Sprint of ~151 KPH without Speed Tweak. With the tweak that would go up to 124 KPH max and around ~171 KPH MASC Sprinting.

From here, we'd just need a MASC Meter on the HUD so that you can sprint for a predictable period of time, and the devs could simply leave it at that, once the bar depletes, it needs to refill to get the MASC speed back.

If there can be more added, then it could be if the meter fully depletes then the mech decelerates to a stop until the bar starts to refills again.

So like using Jump Jets we'd just need a separate key that we'd hold to make use of MASC for short bursts, to keep it dynamic.

Keeping the system simply and predictable, we can add in MASC mechs and ideally not stress the problems that necessitated that speed cap in the first place.

And with the few cases like the Firemoth, I'd be fine with capping its speed to whatever is the limit (like the current 171) and then simply add quirks to compensate any speed loss as a result, if that would even be necessary to do since that high speed already is a fine benefit to the tiny light mechs.

[Andi Nagasia]

MauttyKoray, on 11 February 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

Hm, I think I would keep the Omni and Battlemech design choices we currently have.

Ideas:
IS Omni
-Use Omnipods system (locked internals/equipment too, like JJs!)
-Allow Endo/FF? (IS stuff is heavier remember)
-Restrict to stock engine (would go along with the locked internals/equipment)
What else?

Clan Battlemechs
-Get rid of Locked Internals
-Restrict Endo/Ferro (Clan stuff is lighter and engine swap will allow for more/less tonnage)
-Allow Engine Swap
What elsE?

sorry i dont agree, though i do think such restrictions right now would be warranted,
But by 3060, IS has allot of weapon options that make them very competitive vs the Clans,
so at that time having such restrictions implemented could make the Clan less than desirable,
also assuming we jump to 3060, such restrictions would likely cause unfair force imbalance,

also i dont think having 4 different sets of construction rules would be very new player friendly,
and i feel it would cause allot of players to QQ over Clans being over restricted compared to IS,
even after the new tech coming out to balance the sides, causing the system to be reworked,

MauttyKoray, on 11 February 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

Clan Battlemechs existed long before Clan Omnis and will eventually make it ingame...

IS Omnis were part of the reason they were able to repel the clans along with Lostech weaponry being developed.

Deal with it...they're coming eventually.

around 3060 Newly Developed IS Equipment&Weapons where the main reason IS was able to push back Clans,
things like LFE(IS Version of ClanXL), ER-Lasers(ER-ML&ER-SL), X-PulseLasers(ER-Pulse), all IS-AC-Ultras/LBXs,
PPC Capacitor(+5PPC damage), Light/Heavy Gauss as well as MRM launchers,
Check my Topic (HERE) for Links to all the Above,
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 12 February 2015 - 04:44 AM.

[kapusta11]

According to BT lore Omnis and BattleMechs are indeed different, the former can swap omnipods fast while the latter have ALL their equipment (including weapons) hard wired.

According to TT construction rules, according to which PGI is trying to build their game, there is little to no difference. When you buy say Banshee 3M in MWO, strip it, change internal structure type, put different engine, different weapons that's essentially is no longer 3M varian, you've created your own, which according to lore would take years if not decades to build. Customization is half of the fun in both TT and computer games set in BT universe.

Thus all mechs, including Omnis should be fully customizable, ideally there shouldn't even be such thing like hardpoints, and, according to PGI intention to balance Clans and IS 1:1, Clan TECH should be rebalanced, mainly Lasers, Gauss, maybe SRMs, CACs could use a projectile speed buff in fact, LRMs - not an expert on them, but I'd buff projectile speed for them as well.

All your ideas akin to lock this but keep that are crap, XL and standart are not the only types of engines, Endo-steel and standart are not the oly types of internal structure, ferro fibrous and standart are not the only types of armor. There are light fusion and and XXL engines, composite and reinforced structure, reflective, reactive, hardened, stealth, light and heavy ferro-fibrous armors, Compact and XL Gyro, a lot of stuff. How are you going to use them if you have certain type of equipment hard wired?

Edited by kapusta11, 12 February 2015 - 05:50 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Brody319, on 11 February 2015 - 11:10 PM, said:

thats not very accurate. the problem isn't so much them being unable too, but the game's engine being restrictive and starting to glitch out at higher speeds. mechs going above 180kph start breaking down the engine. many MASC mechs break that speed limit, or would have high enough engine caps that would allow them to break the speed limit. So they can either make a substitute solution or restrict MASC to only mechs that cannot break the speed limit. neither of which is a really optimal solution.

flying at 380kph works alright in CE at least. Just not with PGIs network code)

[Thorn Hallis]

The main problem with IS Omnis, especially the heavier ones aren't the omnipods, but the XL engines.

[LordKnightFandragon]

IS Omnis would magically and suddenly not be restricted by half the rules the Clans are and still get amazing IS quirks.....they would be the clans that never were....but still not OP cuz they are not tagged "clan".

Meanwhile, just because a "battlemech" is dubbed a "Clan" battlemech, its OP and would just break the game entirely. .......

Stone Rhino, 3E, 2B....even with the ability to customize, not OP at all lol.....

Kodiak, it would be vicious, but not OP...

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 12 February 2015 - 06:32 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Thorn Hallis, on 12 February 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

The main problem with IS Omnis, especially the heavier ones aren't the omnipods, but the XL engines.

even though i feel OmniMechs should be Clan Exclusive and BattleMechs should be IS Exclusive,
if IS is to get OmniMechs i feel to be fair they should get the same restrictions as Clan Omnimechs,
however its likely IS Omnimechs would have to be upgraded from LX to LFEs to be become viable,
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 12 February 2015 - 06:46 AM.

[Peiper]

IS Omnimechs don't frighten me. Really, how different would they be from the current frankemechs that the IS already has? They're just different hardpoint configurations than the current mechs is all. Also, if the IS Omnimechs have the same restrictions as Clan omnimechs - fixed engines, internal structure and armor type - they really won't be too scary. Not being able to change engine size is probably the number one limiting factor in the clan omnimechs (and fixed internals/armor are also quit limiting).

I think what people are really fearing is clan tech on regular mechs where you CAN change out engine, internals and armor. I can understand the call for limited hardpoints in such models. I think that with limited hard points and stuff, many of the IIC variants will find their optimal builds will be very similar to their initial builds, as many of the IIC mechs really are masterfully designed machines. (Then again, with frankenmech technology, nothing really is what it is... grrr....)

One thing that bugs me about the IIC variants is how few are available at this time, because so many that ARE are unseen. I wish they would just bring out those unseen mechs, using phoenix or otherwise altered art, and they can even change the names a little bit. The Warmaster instead of Warhammer, the Sharpshooter instead of Rifleman, Mad Raider instead of the Marauder - or something like that.

Regarding quirks, we haven't seen the truly beneficial quirks that Clan mechs will get, and I am going to presume some will. I believe Russ said that as the game develops, clan quirks will happen.

Gosh, do I wish we had a stock mech mode....

[Andi Nagasia]

Peiper, on 12 February 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

One thing that bugs me about the IIC variants is how few are available at this time, because so many that ARE are unseen. I wish they would just bring out those unseen mechs, using phoenix or otherwise altered art, and they can even change the names a little bit. The Warmaster instead of Warhammer, the Sharpshooter instead of Rifleman, Mad Raider instead of the Marauder - or something like that.

My LCT-IIC has 3 variants available at this time(totally want my LCT-IIC)(you Listening PGI?)

most of the Unseen problems arnt the name but the Art that was used,
PGI doesnt want to push HG, as HG would likely threaten to Sue, as they have in the past,
though its not likely, they would win if they did Sue, the legal costs could put a strain on PGI,
causing allot of trouble for PGI, as it would be pulling resources being away from MWO,

their are problems with having Clan BattleMechs and IS OmniMechs,
which is why i propose to have, OmniMechs = Clan Exclusives & BattleMechs = IS Exclusives,
just bending Lore and TT just a bit, PGI has already done that so its not likely to be a problem,
Edit- spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 12 February 2015 - 07:06 AM.

[Peiper]

Andi Nagasia, on 12 February 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

My LCT-IIC has 3 variants available at this time(totally want my LCT-IIC)(you Listening PGI?)

I meant chassis. Argh!

Andi Nagasia, on 12 February 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

My LCT-IIC has 3 variants available at this time(totally want my LCT-IIC)(you Listening PGI?)

most of the Unseen problems arnt the name but the Art that was used,
PGI doesnt want to push HG, as HG would likely threaten to Sue, as they have in the past,
though its not likely, they would win if they did Sue, the legal costs could put a strain on PGI,
causing allot of trouble for PGI, as it would be pulling resources being away from MWO,

That's why I suggested even change the names. WE would know what the mechs were representing, and while they may not be mirror images of what oldsters would want, HG would be hard pressed to try to sue PGI simply for creating mechs with hand held weapons, or long barreled arms. But this conversation is for another thread and has been beat to death anyway.

But if the DO create a Highlander IIC, then Wolfs Dragoons should have them, and if so, the clan/inner sphere tech invisible barrier can finally be knocked down. I am getting sick of hopping clan to IS and back to clan again every week in my contracts. Bring in salvage and isorla for all factions and this whole IS omnimech vs. Clan battlemech argument goes much lower on the worry stick.