14 replies to this topic

[Bitey]

This was an idea I wrote up in a buried faction thread which I believe holds merit for having a new planet selecting system which rewards both loyalists and mercenary groups. After reading over the big heat of the "New star-league" there was a strong divide on how people want to play. At the head of everything was a basic conflict of interest between people who want to play fighting, tagging, and battling fun vs personal who want to play with the influence of space diplomancy, cease-fires, and player controlled fronts/aggression. This system allows for partial player control of planet attacks, while also still leaving freedom and new benefits for both loyalists and mercenaries.

Enjoy the read and leave any feedback:

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While I just started 3 weeks ago I think that these solutions are the wrong way for rewarding loyalists and mercs. A good solution would be a combination of next planet attacks choices which are partially decided by loyalist personal. This wouldn't necessarily apply to all attack options and I believe leaving room for the algorithm is still needed

The solution is to allow half of the planets in the next attack phase to be decided by loyalist votes. There must always be X amount of planets that need to be attacked, but loyalist can assist where the fighting can center. This setup forces people to fight, but also partially allows for the choice of who or where they want to put the most pressure. Loyalists can be given control over who is attacked the LEAST, but they cannot stop people from attacking or fighting for the given contracts.

Easy safe guards can be implemented to ensure that only two planets from any nearby factions can be attack per front. Since only half the planets are chosen by Loyalist players there will still be unique attack options for non-loyalist players.

Here is an example for further breakdown:

Faction Marik- Attack round

• During the attack Loyalist players are given the option to vote on two planets who they would like to attack next round.(Or could vote on what faction they want the planets to be chosen from)
  
• A player majority selects two Kurita planets(those planets must be on a boarder with Marik faction)
  
• The next attack round those planets with the majority have attack lanes opened.
  
• The algorithm also selects an additional two planets from other factions which will be opened on the next phase.

This solution forces attacking, if no votes are made the algorithm proceeds normally. Ontop of all this you could even layer that the Algorithm planets gain more loyalty points, cbills, and favor with the house NPCs leaders for merc factions. Which means that there is still reasons to listen to the 'computer choice' but players can still have a sizeable impact. The voting process for loyalists can also gain cbill and LP towards your given faction. If the planet you vote for wins and you attack it you gain a slight bonus to cbill-LP payout.

Because I could ramble forever on the fine points of it flushing out additional detail I'll stop here. The whole point is that this encourages fighting, RP, and general player freedoms. Nobody has full control over a factions actions, but they have a sizable influence on where attacks can be made.

Source: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4186071

[Necromantion]

I think that this is a fantastic idea, that way the loyalists to a faction would decide the direction a factions attack would head and the mercs would have to follow along with those.

However something to think on regarding the nSL is that what if a faction has no borders with a clan? I guess they would just have to deal with whatever defences are given by chosen Clan attack lanes.

But as a Merc I think this would in ways ease the tension that factions have towards merc groups and it also would throw loyalists a bone!

Thumbs up.

[Roadbeer]

10/10 Would read again.

I saw another idea posted somewhere about Loyalists getting paid in LP, where mercs get CBills.

LP can be used to purchase anything that Cbills can, and can also be used to contract mercs. Since all units are technically "merc" units, just with varying levels of contract length to a faction, those "permanently" on contract are considered loyalists and generate LP when fighting for their faction.

One unit can use it's LP to contract another merc unit, even those "loyalists" to come fight on a border (that gets past the whole southern houses not being able to attack the Clans, just defend) as an expeditionary unit.

At the end of the contract, the LP gets paid and the "merc" unit goes on it's merry, or is reupped.

This would give the "loyalists" some agency over their "mercs" as well.
"I hired you to fight Clan Ghost Bear and you spent the whole contract attacking Steiner, you don't get paid"
Yes, there is some potential for shenanigans in that, but it wouldn't take long for agents on both sides to figure out who is honest and the problem corrects it self.

"mercs" can then exchange the LP they are paid for Cbills or use them to sub-contract other mercs when hired to do a job.

[Necromantion]

An interesting concept Road, I see a few small problems depending on how that would be implemented.

I know that PGI wants all players to have the same control over where they want to play and whatnot. Allowing a faction or a unit in a faction the ability to have control of what/who they contract on as mercs could be problematic in the sense of the fact that they would be determining who can play where. For example what if a merc unit was interested in a Steiner contract but no steiner unit or the faction as a whole didnt want them for any number of reasons whether it is because they are tiny, dont like them, etc.

Also who determines how much the mercs get paid? PGI or the faction/unit contracting the mercs? Is it a flat amount of pay or per player in the unit that is active in that contract window per match?

Also how LP functions being earned towards mechbays etc could pose a problem, do mercs get anything towards those unlocks or are they at the whim of the faction/unit who hires them out in regards to working towards those non-lore related unlocks?

There are a lot of facets that I see that are problematic with the LP/CBill idea but perhaps if someone put together a more structured schematic I could be convinced otherwise.


I do undoubtedly think that loyalists should have perks that other contracts don't have access to, and the option to choose some/all attack lanes for their faction would alleviate some if not all of the issues of "unruly mercs" attacking against agreements and ceasefires. This would however call into the intelligence of the people doing the choosing, having to avoid people trolling and choosing fronts with a ceasefire or where there would be only turret drops to cause drama etc.

Also how is it determined who gets to vote on planet selection? Maybe units with over a certain amount of drops in the last active window the day before for their location (oceanic, europe, americas)?

[Bitey]

The core of the idea is that Loyalist personal are allowed to vote for 2 out of 4 of the attack planets. If a loyalist votes on a planet that wins for the attack phase, they get an additional LP/CBill reward. This encourages people to discuss and vote on where/what they should vote on as a Loyal units to a faction and then coordinate attacks against those worlds.


Conversely, the mercenaries can get additional LP-Cbill benefits from taking the computer selected worlds. This does two things by essentially making them a true merc unit of "We got the work done for the right price." You could even take these benefit a step further with stating the longer a computer planet stays unclaimed the more LP-cbill bonuses start to add-up. This allows for full freedom of mercenary groups going after the right price, on top of allowing PGI to manipulate the allure of different mercenary contract rewards based on faction populations and other game variables.

The entire point is that players don't control other players decisions unless it's via consent. Loyalists have no control over mercenary factions, just as mercenaries cannot influence the planet voting phases. Each party has different benefits depending on how players want to participate in the community warfare gameplay.

[Necromantion]

Thanks for clarifying, this makes a LOT more sense and wouldnt require as much scheming and potential drama causing that other ideas would.

Sign me up, gosh toss up a rewrite on the suggestion forums man, you may be onto solving one huge issue that community warfare is facing!

[Roadbeer]

Yeah, the LP pay isn't something I've spent a lot of time processing beyond reading the original post on the topic and I expanded my thoughts into it a little.

Just spitballing here. Let's say that PGI sets a fixed conversion rate of 1 LP = 10,000 CBills. or whatever. When I drop in a match, as a loyalist, I earn 25 LP, but a merc would earn 250,000 Cbills (call it profits from salvage for the RPers) then the LP your paid at the end of the contract is your "bonus"

Now lets say my unit contracts yours. for 300 LP for the week. On top of all the Cbills you earn in the matches, at the end of the contract, I pay you, that's 3,000,000 worth of Cbills if you convert it to put in your unit coffers or disburse among your members as you see fit. You also have access to the "faction store" where you get to buy Marik exclusive items at Marik prices (say you wanted to add some -M mechs into your dropdecks, it would be a good time to go find a Marik contract to get the best price on them).

I know the situation would come up where a merc unit wants to fight for a faction, but can't get a contract. I would say, they still get the CBills per drop, they just don't earn LP.

And I know this next bit is going to be unpopular with some people, but it will also break the back of the "Mega Mercs" because nobody would be able to pay enough LP to make it worth their while to take a contract, thus they wouldn't earn LP and get the perks for it. And even if they did, disbursing the LP to 300 members would become such a pain in the ass, people would grow tired of doing it. Ultimately removing the ability for the Mega Mercs to influence the board to a larger extent than faction loyalists.

Like I said, just some ideas that would obviously need some fleshing out.

In regards to attack lanes, I would be a fan of during each CF, the loyalists have an option to vote on one of 3 planets per border for the next cycle to work on, and maybe prioritize them so the Call to Arms will put those planets on the top and you don't have the shotgun effect on the PUGs and they're spread out all over the place, sitting in empty queues without anyone else from their faction.

I can tell you that having some control over the algorithm would be VERY desirable to Marik. For the first 2 months of CW, we took like 20+ planets from Steiner, but the IS map doesn't really reflect that because of what we've come to call "Typewritering". The algorithm moves us along the whole border from west to east, then starts over again. so while we've made all these advances, it's really only 2 planets deep.

[Necromantion]

Indeed, I think even with just the planet vote part being implemented it would be a good start to alleviate some issues with community warfare and the community right now even if the LP idea came along later in its inception.

We should pass this around and get some more attention thrown at this thread

Edited by Necromantion, 11 February 2015 - 11:46 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Alternate thought on the LP contract.

Say we agree to 300 LP for the week. 1/2 of that is used to give LP during the drops, the remainder (and anything left over) is paid at the end of the contract. That way only the members of your unit who were actively dropping during the contract are automatically given LP and you can use the rest to store in your unit coffers to give to people who weren't active, or bonus your members as you see fit.

[RF Greywolf]

+1

I think this would be a great idea and it has a ton of other aspects that could be added later within the basic framework. Necro is right, get something written up and put into the suggestion part of the forums.

The only major question is do you get demoted if you spend enough LP to drop a rank within the Loyalty system and would this hinder people hiring mercs due to not wanting to set them back inside the Loyalty system?

[Roadbeer]

RF Greywolf, on 11 February 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

The only major question is do you get demoted if you spend enough LP to drop a rank within the Loyalty system and would this hinder people hiring mercs due to not wanting to set them back inside the Loyalty system?

I wouldn't think so.
They'd still be achievements like the other ones. IIRC, there is an achievement for earning X number of Cbills, you keep that regardless if you spend them all.

[Necromantion]

How about if the mercs assist in the attacking or capturing of the chosen planets by the faction vote they get some kind of modest reward but if they dont then they dont get said bonus?

Edit: Perhaps there would be some way to work the LP bonus that road has suggested into this in some way

Edited by Necromantion, 11 February 2015 - 12:22 PM.

[RF Greywolf]

Necromantion, on 11 February 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

How about if the mercs assist in the attacking or capturing of the chosen planets by the faction vote they get some kind of modest reward but if they dont then they dont get said bonus?

Edit: Perhaps there would be some way to work the LP bonus that road has suggested into this in some way

That might help keep the mercs attacking the right places. I could see something about the contract only paying out IF they attack the indicated planets. They can attack other targets, but they're not getting paid unless they follow the directive. Unfortunately I don't see an easy way to break down the contract to accomplish this, as some of the units would make more drops than others could. So there would be no cut and dry way of choosing how much LP they get out of the contract per drop.

[Necromantion]

RF Greywolf, on 11 February 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

That might help keep the mercs attacking the right places. I could see something about the contract only paying out IF they attack the indicated planets. They can attack other targets, but they're not getting paid unless they follow the directive. Unfortunately I don't see an easy way to break down the contract to accomplish this, as some of the units would make more drops than others could. So there would be no cut and dry way of choosing how much LP they get out of the contract per drop.

Im not sure how this would fly with PGI, as this really would put a bind on merc units and ultimately im sure somewhere in the lore some merc units did reach outside of their contracts not that I am against merc units having to adhere to something like that.

Yeah thats true, it would just have to be an additional bonus on top of some standard earnings always accrued. As long as you help out on one or all of the planets you get some goodies as a merc unit but once again it would have to be balanced in a way to be enough incentive to promote cohesion but it shouldnt be a bonus to easily overshadow loyalist earnings.

[bobF]

Just adding my support, and agree that Loyalists need lots of love from PGI. I drink the MS koolaid heavily these days, but would not have left my home town of GB if there were equivalent mechanics in place that benefit Loyalists with both Good Fights™ and appropriate rewards. My 2 KE.