11 replies to this topic

[Xoco]

I have not played the Urbanmech yet, so I'm curious--how does it feel compared to Blackjack?

I think that these two occupies a similar space--tiny mech with big, high mounted guns. Except Urbanmech seems to be somewhat more agile, has better torso twist (360FTW!), while BJ has more tonnage and armor.

But as anyone who have tried their hands on the barely-moving coffin AKA the Blackjack could tell you, having slightly more armor isn't going to help much when you can't actually outrun a Heavy. It's great when you can follow your teammate (Not until you have enough money for a new engine). But without a good team to rely on, your Blackjack is as good as dead.


Should I just abandon the BJ and startover on the Urby?

[Skarlock]

No mech can simply walk out and solo 12 other enemy mechs without the help of their team (unless those 12 enemy mechs are disconnects ). If it were possible with anything resembling consistency, then any team that had 3 of those mechs would automatically win against any other team that did not have 3 of those mechs. A dire wolf dies miserably with no team to support it. Same with the king crab, the atlas, the firestarter, the timber wolf, the storm crow, etc etc.

That being said, urbie is probably tougher but significantly less shooty than a blackjack. Black Jacks have some variants with really powerful offensive quirks, but urby lacks those quirks and doesn't have the stamina (either low ammo reserves for ballistics, or not enough heat reduction for energy weapons). Urbie is extremely small and defensively is quite strong for such a slow light mech. If you want a tougher light that can left peek and hill hump like a champ, but is a challenge to play well and get good damage out of, the urbanmech might be your thing.

[Xoco]

So basically, they're roughly the same, except Blackjacks have more weapons, but is a bit easier target. Well, shucks, I'll stick with my Jacksies for now then. Thanks



-----

It's been a bit of time since, and I got some more time with the Blackjack. The Little Menace can put out respectable damage (right now, my damage is usually capped by my ability to get to fights moreso than anything else). Funny enough, the most important skill for Blackjack pilots is how to not be in your friend's way. Other than that, provided you can actually make it to the party in time, it is pretty cool.

With that said, I have a couple of advices--
1) How do you deal with missiles? I'm so damn slow, I can't ever dodge 'em.
2) When focus firing down other mechs, which parts are priorities? When I'm on my high alpha Lights, I always go for legs (without a leg, you can't take down a Light). But my BJ is still rocking a pretty pair of AC2 right now, and that's not likely to bring down a part any time soon. Any advice?

Edited by Xoco, 13 April 2015 - 06:44 PM.

[Bigshep]

My suggestion with AC2's is that you shoot at what everyone else is shooting at (solid triangle). If you can see a damaged torso or arm shoot that, Hopefully your RoF will give you component crits. If not then just spam the centre torso as all the flashing in the opponents cockpit can disorientate them for your team mates to get a few more shots on them. It could also force a mech to retire rather than push as well.

[Tahribator]

The Blackjack has excellent durability, mobility, an abundance of hardpoints and the quirks to make it one of the best damage pumpers in this game. Especially the 1X (with MLs and MPLs), the 1DC (ERLL/LL snipeage) and the Arrow (hunting down wounded 'Mechs) are gods amongst the mediums for those who can use them. Blackjacks are also ignored during big fights over bigger 'Mechs which makes them an even better threat.

The Urbanmech definitely has the mobility part when you use it with the max engine, it's also surprisingly durable due to its good scale. What it lacks is good amount of energy hardpoints and quirks. Yes a good player can get a few kills and maybe break a couple of hundreds of damage with them, but the same player would solo an entire team in a BJ with the same effort.

It's not even a comparison, despite attempts to imply that BJ sucks. I'm sorry.

Edited by Tahribator, 17 April 2015 - 03:45 AM.

[jss78]

I was a little surprised to see these two compared as occupying the same space. I haven't tried the UM though, but I mainly drive BJs and they basically tower over the Urbanmech (in a purely physical sense). I guess BJs are basically mini-Jaegers, and exist to haul that pair of heavy guns into hopefully useful fire-support positions.

(This excludes the BJ-A which is so different that it hardly feels like a Blackjack at all -- although it's a lot of fun for non-meta machine-gun madness, and can IMHO be pretty well-rounded depending on what you put in those energy hardpoints.)

I agree that Blackjacks really suck in one-on-one ... or maybe I'm just doing it wrong? Lights and most mediums just run circles around you, and heavies and assaults blow you to smithereens. It's the loneliest feeling in the world to be stranded alone in a BJ.

[Shadey99]

jss78, on 17 April 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

I was a little surprised to see these two compared as occupying the same space. I haven't tried the UM though, but I mainly drive BJs and they basically tower over the Urbanmech (in a purely physical sense). I guess BJs are basically mini-Jaegers, and exist to haul that pair of heavy guns into hopefully useful fire-support positions.

They are compared because both tend to bring ballistics loads onto the field, though the Urbies is smaller. The Urbie seems to absorb a lot more punishment then it should. I've had one nearly solo me in one of my wolverines because no matter how many times I shot it, it wouldn't go down for the longest time even with red RTs and CT.

I had planned a very long time ago to buy and master the BJs after having mastered the Jagers, but the phoenix pack came out and I never got to it. It has the same sort of hill humping profile as the Jags, but is much smaller and at least in some variants has JJs. Also at that point there were few mediums with a ballistics load at all (The single Ballistics slot on the cicada being the only other one I can think of). At this point I'd tend to skip buying the BJ because I have Shadow Hawks and Wolverines can can take a ballistics load, though if I owned Urbies I could see why some would rather take those at the moment.

Edited by Shadey99, 17 April 2015 - 12:51 PM.

[Macksheen]

Only one Urbie really should bother w/ ballistics - the others are best suited to other loadouts IMHO. Of course, those loadout look a lot like the Arrow, so the similarities still can hold a bit.

That said, they are really not comparable. The BJ can really bring a lot more pin point effectively ... better heat management, etc.

I do love my Urbie though ...

[WatDo]

I don't know how the urbanmech works, i don't have one. i know i laugh at them on the battlefield though, as i shoot through their paper-thin armor.

But i will say you're blackjacking wrong. Lose the ac/2's immediately, they're trash. Grab an ac/20 in one arm, slap on 4 medlasers in the torsos and slam the biggest xl engine you can fit in with atleast 4 tons of ammo. I feel the 1dc has the best general quirks for both those weapons systems, btw. You don't want a slow BJ. All mine go 85kph+ and they're some of my best performing mechs.

Use your high speed and higher ac/20 mount to peek over a ridge and shove a shell into someones backside. These things are assassins, not brawlers. Peek over a ridge, alpha, hide, repeat. Use your weaponless arm as a shield as you back down. This loadout could be done with a gaussrifle instead for ridge sniping.

One of my favorite BJ's is the 1x. 2 LpL with 4 medlasers and a huge XL. 95 kph poking over a ridge with 22 damage from your high lpls means you won't take a hit at range.

[juxstapo]

O.o

whuuuuuaaaaat?

first, what engines you running m8?

secondly... just listen to Tahribator and Mack. Seriously, Jacks rox once you get your legs under you.

[Telmasa]

Uh, what?

Urbies and blackjacks basically the same? lol

Yeah, no, that's a 15 ton difference dude. Way different.

If you want a Blackjack you can buy stock and basically be happy with, get the Blackjack-3 (the PPC one). (I put an XL 225 engine in it and wanted to keep right away, though I was just grinding the basics so I can use another variant; if it turns out the Grasshopper or Quickdraw are disappointing PPC mechs, I'm absolutely going to buy this one back.)

Edited by Telmasa, 20 April 2015 - 10:48 PM.

[Brizna]

I can't see how you can compare the two. BJ is one of the most tonage efficient mechs when firepower is your main concern for CW. The only reason you don't see BJs all around in CW is because of how good IS lights are (non urbies ofc) also Thunderbolts being way too convenient.

RVN/FS7, TDR, TDR, STK = 250. It's hard to beat that when aiming for a flexible generalist CW drop, trying to shoe horn a BJ in there is a headache not worth the effort. But if PGI either nerfs Thunderbolts (more) and/or STK 4N you will see a change in drops and BJ is just there at the fringes waiting to take a spot as the most tonnage efficient IS sniper/DPS pumper, meanwhile Urbanmech, even being better than it should according to lore, is going to remain a pugland friendly joke mech.

Edited by Brizna, 21 April 2015 - 02:30 AM.