28 replies to this topic

[Lordred]

Alan Davion, on 14 February 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

There is that, but there's also the fact that, in lore, a mech will heat up simply from moving, and the faster it moves, the more heat it generates... Which we currently do not have because we'd have people overheating and shutting down ten times as often the way heat works in the game.

Movement (walking/running) in the game generates heat, the amount of heat is generates is negligible, but it is generated.

Alan Davion, on 14 February 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

I'm currently reading "Mercenary's Star", part of the Gray Death Saga, and numerous times it's talked about Grayson 'rapid firing' the right arm laser on his shadow hawk, along with the autocannon.

The way mech combat worked in the books was MUCH more skill based, because the pilot had to avoid overheating at all costs, because if you overheated and shutdown, you were permanently shut down, and that means you were either captured, or your mech made an easy target and lost its head. Along with your life.

Where as in MW:O, it's all meta-builds and alpha strikes with much less concern for heat and shutting down.

Lots of people have posted some very fine ideas on how to alter/fix the heatscale in this game, it falls on deaf ears.

Alan Davion, on 14 February 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

A little off topic there, but I think it needed to be said.

There are a lot of changes that need to be made to this game, and in my opinion, speed is rather low on the list, things like autocannon fire and ECM are much higher on the list... ECM currently holding the #1 spot on things that need to be fixed before anything else.

And I agree on AC's and ECM, but these are things they have stated they will not change, unless they feel like changing it.



Onto others.

Burktross, on 14 February 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

This... does not make sense.
Mastering mechs to get unnerfed?


1) The opposite. Stock mechs will now be anti-lore with slower speeds to boot.

Tarogato made an excellent counter-argument to how you feel on this, and it mirrors my own personal thoughts. I have little more constructive to say on that.

Burktross, on 14 February 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

2) There needs to be a lot more room for masc.

We have to start somewhere. A combination of slowing down mechs (Via speed tweak, tweaking) and improved HSR, we may find short term speeds of 170-250kph available to us.

Burktross, on 14 February 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

3) see number 2

Ditto.

Burktross, on 14 February 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

4) This isn't a skill reworking, this just nerfs un-elited mechs needlessly.

64.8 is slow as it is. I don't want to buy 3 mechs just to raise it from 58.

You have to buy three mechs to bring it from 64.8 to 71.3. Especially when we can easily justify this as the pilot getting accustomed to the mech, and being able to use more of its capacity. Rather then, the Pilot got used to the mech, and through magic, can make it run faster.

If you got in a High performance sports car, and went to a race track, and constantly ran the same loop over and over, you would with time, run the lap faster, and faster as you became more accustomed to the machine. The vehicle is not gaining more power, you are getting better at using what is available.

Burktross, on 14 February 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

OP, I don't get it. Why are you so insistent on making mechs slower as to make a second thread trying to get it?

Two different unrelated posts, on two separate issues. It is of my opinion that mechs with speed tweak are too fast. 10% is far too high of a bonus. My topic on Engine rating limitations is while among a similar vein, is different from this topic, and I would be glad to discuss it with you in detail over TS, PM, or via posts in that thread.

[Lordred]

Thanks for voting and posting to all who did. I am clearly in the minority, and thats ok.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

remove speed tweek, put there just empty box like other one to sink xp

[Bloodweaver]

Lordred, on 12 February 2015 - 11:27 PM, said:

Instead of speeding up mechs by 10%, lets use speed tweak to bring the mechs up to their full speed.

Speed Tweak already works this way for some of MWO's 'mechs - their default configurations don't reach their Sarna-listed full speed until Speed Tweak is applied.

[Lordred]

Bloodweaver, on 18 February 2015 - 07:22 PM, said:

Speed Tweak already works this way for some of MWO's 'mechs - their default configurations don't reach their Sarna-listed full speed until Speed Tweak is applied.

That is because odd MP engines were producing a faster then avarage speed converted to real time, so all odd speed ratings where avarage to the even speed ratings.

The Sarna speed would be invalid for this reason. Mechs were now slowed down below cannon, speeds were averaged so it would be linear.

[Bloodweaver]

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand that :/ What I do know is that a Highlander with a 270 engine (for example) is supposed to go 54 kph, but won't reach that speed in this game unless you spend an additional 4.5 tons to get a 300 engine. Adding Speed Tweak with the 270 engine brings it up to 53.5 kph, which makes it less of an upgrade and more of an (as someone else said) "un-nerf."

[Icebergdx]

Nightshade24, on 14 February 2015 - 12:47 AM, said:

I vote yes for many reasons.

1) Makes the game feel more lore friendly and will give lights new engines caps that can diversify all mechs 15 to 45 tons.

2) Makes MASC able to come into the game, mechs on hold that's already made are...
-Flea
-Cataphract (3L)

3) Makes mechs that are not made yet, but are still on hold able to come into game.

-Firemoth
-Shadowcat (3050 introduction, clan verse clan date so to say, clan verse IS date/ IS first sighting is 3052)
-Executioner

and many more.


Quirks revolving around MASC and MASC capabilities can be a new aspect of the game and speed quirks can be another thing (as we saw with the summoner)


4) The skills and stuff really need a reworking... this is a good start.

Actually, there is one mech currently in game that would be changed by MASC. Yen-Lo-Wang was refitted with a Gauss rifle, three Medium Pulse Lasers, and MASC (actually Triple Strength Myomer, but it functioned as MASC, as noted in the book Blood Legacy) on 21 September, 3050. This refit was after Kai Allard Laio succeeded in completing a Trial of Position on Outreach, defeating 5 mechs, and requested that the Daishi which he was entitled to, be given to Victor Steiner-Davion "so that he and Hohiro Kurita could face each other on equal terms." Hanse Davion had Yen-Lo-Wang refitted to show his gratitude to Kai.

Kai's victory would have qualified him as a Galaxy Commander if he had been a clanner. No clan warrior had ever achieved 5 kills in a Trial of position, and 4 kills has only been noted for Natasha Kerensky, during her re qualification as a Clan Wolf warrior.

Edited by Icebergdx, 18 February 2015 - 08:58 PM.

[Lordred]

Bloodweaver, on 18 February 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand that :/ What I do know is that a Highlander with a 270 engine (for example) is supposed to go 54 kph, but won't reach that speed in this game unless you spend an additional 4.5 tons to get a 300 engine. Adding Speed Tweak with the 270 engine brings it up to 53.5 kph, which makes it less of an upgrade and more of an (as someone else said) "un-nerf."

No problem, I can explain for you.

In TT, to determin a mechs speed, you must choose an engine equal to its tonnage multiplied by how many hexes you want to to beable to walk in a single turn. The maximum speed of a mech is its walking MP multiplied by 1.5 rounded up. We round up because you cannot move a half hex per turn, only whole hexes

To convert RMP into KP/H to simply multiply by 10.8

Example, the Highlander is 90 tons, to give it a walking MP of 3, you need to equip it with a 270 rated engine.

The math is as follows:
3 x 1.5 = 4.5, rounded up to 5
5 x 10.8 = 54kp/h

For MWO, we are not limited by whole hex movement, so rounding is not required, it simply becomes:
(3 x 1.5)10.8 = 48.6kp/h

It is not a nerf, it is ballance. If we kept the round up, then all odd MP engines would be faster then their even MP engine counterparts.

Walking MP	Running MP TT	Running KP/H TT	Running MP MWO	Running KP/H MWO
2	3	32.4	3	32.4
3	5	54	4.5	48.6
4	6	64.8	6	64.8
5	8	86.4	7.5	81
6	9	97.2	9	97.2
7	11	118.8	10.5	113.4
8	12	129.6	12	129.6
9	14	151.2	13.5	145.8
10	15	162	15	162

Edited by Lordred, 18 February 2015 - 09:03 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Alan Davion, on 14 February 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

There is that, but there's also the fact that, in lore, a mech will heat up simply from moving, and the faster it moves, the more heat it generates... Which we currently do not have because we'd have people overheating and shutting down ten times as often the way heat works in the game.

I'm currently reading "Mercenary's Star", part of the Gray Death Saga, and numerous times it's talked about Grayson 'rapid firing' the right arm laser on his shadow hawk, along with the autocannon.

The way mech combat worked in the books was MUCH more skill based, because the pilot had to avoid overheating at all costs, because if you overheated and shutdown, you were permanently shut down, and that means you were either captured, or your mech made an easy target and lost its head. Along with your life.

Where as in MW:O, it's all meta-builds and alpha strikes with much less concern for heat and shutting down.

A little off topic there, but I think it needed to be said.

There are a lot of changes that need to be made to this game, and in my opinion, speed is rather low on the list, things like autocannon fire and ECM are much higher on the list... ECM currently holding the #1 spot on things that need to be fixed before anything else.

Actually we do have it... Just Standard heatsink buffs "recently" (recent in terms of heatsink changes in MW: O) and DHS is superior enough to nutralise that.

If you had a light mech with like a standard 100 to 140 and had all your standard heatsinks in 1 arm and that arm is blown off you actually get heat by moving.

(back in MW: O closed beta you can over heat by running and stuff.... fun times, fun times)


In game you can see this effect normal mech builds via the fact that your cool down rate is worse and you get a perma heat by moving, like a constnat 10% heat that never goes down on some builds on some maps.


However I would like more detailed heat mechanics in games and stuff... I'm just saying that THIS is in game... just vaguely.