17 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

I think that Role Warfare has the important goal of making players define themselves on the battlefield. All of our player identities will be associated with certain weapons loadouts, like how snipers often have very punchy but slow-firing weapons and brawlers may have high Damage/Second weapons that have to be kept on target longer.

These differing Personal Roles can be capitali$ed on via the in-game store: Eventually, after a few months of updates and stuff, you can start offering weapon variants based on the manufacturer incorporating tiny variations in weapon properties. For instance when MWO launches you should include an ER Large Laser as manufactured by Blankenburg Technologies, fabricated right here, on Terra. Then, sometime a few months later when your staff has more time to expand on stuff, you can introduce another ER Large Laser as manufactured by Diverse Optics Inc. on the planet Irian.

Here's where the $$ comes in: you make them slightly different. I mean a 2.5% difference in range, or 1.5% difference in cooldown-time, or tiny stuff like that. EDIT: But keep them zero-balanced in general so there is no single superior variant. If you made a few variants of each weapon available it would encourage more free players to become paying players. A free player will have to fight for a long time before they can afford a new shiny ER Large Laser, for example, but they will have to choose which one they want...

...and what if the other one you passed up is the better one? People who like their ER Large Laser are gonna use their ER Large Laser... but if they had the opportunity to *tweak* it just a tad, I bet they'd take it. You don't want to worry about facing the situation where you decide to change your Battlefield Role slightly from a stand-off Sniper to an assault Marksman and now you want an ER Large Laser that recharges faster instead of the punchier, slower one. It's best to have both, just in case.

This will get more oney out of "Collectors" who like to make sure they have one of everything in their inventory, and Collectors love to play RPGs with massive intentories and item variants...

Edited by Prosperity Park, 08 February 2012 - 06:30 PM.

[Aegis Kleais]

Yeah, this was discussed somewhere on the forum already.

Basically, Brand *** vs. Brand YYY differences on weapons and tech.

(wow... word filter doesn't like 3 X's in a row.... how does it not know maybe I'm talking about liquor potency, eh?)

Edited by Aegis Kleaisâ„¢, 08 February 2012 - 02:28 PM.

[Paul Inouye]

Prosperity Park, on 08 February 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

Here's where the $$ comes in: you make them slightly different. I mean a 2.5% difference in range, or 1.5% difference in cooldown-time, or tiny stuff like that. If you made a few variants of each weapon available it would encourage more free players to become paying players. A free player will have to fight for a long time before they can afford a new shiny ER Large Laser, for example, but they will have to choose which one they want...

Increase range and DPS on weapons? Isn't that what you'd call P2W? Both of the examples you gave are tactical advantages. Or are you just trying to trick me?

[CeeKay Boques]

Paul Inouye, on 08 February 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Increase range and DPS on weapons? Isn't that what you'd call P2W? Both of the examples you gave are tactical advantages. Or are you just trying to trick me?

He's trying to trick you. Its a good thought though, and there's been plenty of long threads about using manufacturers as a means to purchasable weapon differences. AC10 being single shot or Multishot for example, still doing the same damage, but firing differently. The "5 Slug AC10" (still doing 10 damage mind you) might cause faster, smaller knock, and fit better with my pulse alpha set up, while the large bore "Single Slug AC-10" works well with a HARD knock, and is generally easier to aim. Not better or worse, just different.

Edited by Technoviking, 08 February 2012 - 04:55 PM.

[Paul Inouye]

See.. the thing is TV... he was using real $$!!

If I did that to you guys, I'd fully expect pitchforks and torches and for some reason Metro with a truck load of pig parts showing up at my door.

Now if it was simply C-Bills.. then sure.. multi-manufacturers will work.

By the way.. if you buy the AC/2000OMG-4 from PI Incorporated it does 2000 damage in a single shot and has a 4 second reload time. Use paypal and not the store! It's only 3 easy payments of $109.99

[Damocles]

I like the idea, but I don't see why it needs to be accessible via ca$h.

[Outlaw Wolf]

Paul Inouye, on 08 February 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

See.. the thing is TV... he was using real $$!!

If I did that to you guys, I'd fully expect pitchforks and torches and for some reason Metro with a truck load of pig parts showing up at my door.

Now if it was simply C-Bills.. then sure.. multi-manufacturers will work.

By the way.. if you buy the AC/2000OMG-4 from PI Incorporated it does 2000 damage in a single shot and has a 4 second reload time. Use paypal and not the store! It's only 3 easy payments of $109.99

I would like the C-Bills idea for the variation of manufacturers, would be able to specialize our mechs even more to fit our fighting style.

But on a serious note.. the AC/2000OMG-4 ....that should only be 99.99 imho and I would probably atleast consider the posibility of actually utilizing that in some sort of combat somewhere sometime against somebody.

[VYCanis]

well, the diff manufacturers thing. I don't think it should necessarily be a real money thing. but if you had different versions priced differently via in game currency, with a spectrum of quality, pricing, and behaviors for each weapon/equipment class, it'd allow for the more bargain bin grade equipment to be easily replaced and still give a lot of options, but still allow players to save up for the good stuff, and give some incentive to buy (assuming a WoT system) money boosters or trading irl money for cbills to make us more likely to afford it more often.

even so, everything should have some tradeoffs, even the good stuff. So like you could have some fancy shmancy tech with a big fat price tag on it, it shoots farther, faster, and hits harder than the more baseline models, but breaks at the drop of a hat, or just as easily have something that is super cheap, feels weak, but takes forever to fail and never jams, or some other combination of factors for people to find which best suits their style.

just opens up a lot of variety i think, as opposed to every standard medium laser built within 1000 light years of here, from hundreds of different factories, on hundreds of different planets, fitted for thousands of different combat vehicles, over the past 600 years, all being functionally identical.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Paul Inouye, on 08 February 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Increase range and DPS on weapons? Isn't that what you'd call P2W? Both of the examples you gave are tactical advantages. Or are you just trying to trick me?

No, no, no... you're thinking of Weapon Buffs.

I'm talking about one laser has 2.5% longer range than a competitor's model, but a also has slightly slower rechrage time to compensate. Or one laser has a slighty higher DPS balanced by that fact that it deals slightly less damage per volly so you have to remain in the open longer to take advantage of that gain.

See? I mean makng the different manufactures' weapons slightly different from eachother, but still balanced with each having their own pros and cons, all while remaining in the family of "ER Large Lasers."

The money comes in from people paying real-life cash for the XP and C-Bill gains to improve their character faster in order to gain enough c-bills to buy all the ER Large Laser variants instead of being content with just "the one and only" ER Large Laser we're used to. I never said better weapons can be bought with cash, I said free players will want to become paying players so they can get their c-bill multipliers and stuff. My exact words were:

Prosperity Park, on 08 February 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

If you made a few variants of each weapon available it would encourage more free players to become paying players. A free player will have to fight for a long time before they can afford a new shiny ER Large Laser, for example, but they will have to choose which one they want...

...This will get more oney out of "Collectors" who like to make sure they have one of everything in their inventory, and Collectors love to play RPGs with massive intentories and item variants...

This does not mean free players will cough up cash to buy newer and better weapons; what it means is that free players will see how much more there is to offer by becoming a paying player and having more c-bills to spend.



(Now, can someone please tell Paul to look at my reply before the thought gets lost in his mind...?)

Edited by Prosperity Park, 08 February 2012 - 05:56 PM.

[Paul Inouye]

Okay.. so trying to zero balance the pros and cons of a weapon... that makes sense........

....

HOWEVER....

Increasing range (even with a slower recharge) potentially allows a player to fire a shot into someone who is standing still (let's pretend he's a defender and not looking at you) and as he tries to come around to fire back, you get to shoot again while his lasers are not able to hit you back. Then I start getting PM's about how much of an ***** I am. Then I take it out on the forums. Vicious circle man... vicious.

You ARE testing me... I can tell... I sense the dark side in you!

[Felicitatem Parco]

Well, if you're getting shot by an ER Large Laser and the only reason you can't shoot back is because you bought the slightly shorter range ER Large Laser... then hit the store, buddy!

No, I mean in a duel between opponents with differing mnfctr's ER Large Laser, then the result should boil down to whoever aims best. The reason you might want the laser variants is to get that smug satisfaction of knowing you tuned the snot out of your Mech EXACTLY how you want it, not just down to the weapon, but down to the Brand.

It's like nailing down which engine you want because you like that engine, but you get just a little choice in tuning the torque vs. horsepower. It's that tuning that makes the MechWarrior smile.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 08 February 2012 - 06:06 PM.

[VYCanis]

Prosperity Park, on 08 February 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

Well, if you're getting shot by an ER Large Laser and the only reason you can't shoot back is because you bought the slightly shorter range ER Large Laser... then hit the store, buddy!

No, I mean in a duel between opponents with differing mnfctr's ER Large Laser, then the result should boil down to whoever aims best. The reason you might want the laser variants is to get that smug satisfaction of knowing you tuned the snot out of your Mech EXACTLY how you want it, not just down to the weapon, but down to the Brand.

It's like nailing down which engine you want because you like that engine, but you get just a little choice in tuning the torque vs. horsepower. It's that tuning that makes the MechWarrior smile.

^^^^YES DIS^^^^

who knows what the guy with the er large laser with a bit of extra range gave up for that extra range?

his damage might be lower, his beam duration might be longer (resulting in the likelihood of spreading damage around) he might be running hotter, his laser might short out at the first hint of internal damage, he might have a refire rate thats significantly slower, or any odd combination of factors.

the guy who is getting laser plinked might be tooled totally for mid range combat, and if he gets in a bit closer, his er large laser might've given up a number of factors to become a more effective weapon at moderate ranges than super ER guy

Edited by VYCanis, 08 February 2012 - 06:20 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Paul's note of Zero-Balancing the weapons is of paramount importance. If there was s single best variant, then I can promise you that in less than three months it will be the only variant fielded at all and nobody would bother purchasing the "lesser" variants. It would kill the concept, entirely.

[Qman]

Paul Inouye, on 08 February 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

By the way.. if you buy the AC/2000OMG-4 from PI Incorporated it does 2000 damage in a single shot and has a 4 second reload time. Use paypal and not the store! It's only 3 easy payments of $109.99

As long it shoots kittens with rainbows and also used a hula girl as a target reticule and made loud pew pew sounds then i would spend up big!


Edit cause i r dumb typing

Edited by Qman, 08 February 2012 - 06:42 PM.

[verybad]

How about a "Black Market" available only for Mercs, Lone Wolves, and House Players with LOW loyalty ratings.

Black Markets sell stuff for cheap, but the stuff MIGHT not be what your'e told (eg a Clan ERLL might actually be an IS LL)

Also a gambling system like the :"crates" in Team Fortress 2. Finally a system where you can trade or share stuff with other people.

[flyingdebris]

verybad, on 08 February 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

How about a "Black Market" available only for Mercs, Lone Wolves, and House Players with LOW loyalty ratings.

Black Markets sell stuff for cheap, but the stuff MIGHT not be what your'e told (eg a Clan ERLL might actually be an IS LL)

"Check this out, bro, i totally bought myself a clan madcat for super cheap!!! wait a minute...."

[CeeKay Boques]

Prosperity Park, on 08 February 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

Paul's note of Zero-Balancing the weapons is of paramount importance. If there was s single best variant, then I can promise you that in less than three months it will be the only variant fielded at all and nobody would bother purchasing the "lesser" variants. It would kill the concept, entirely.

It doesn't even have to be real, it could just be perceived that way. If I kill you a noob with a weapon you he doesn't have, there will be tears upon the forum, regardless of whether or not, in actuality, I'm perhaps gimping myself with said weapon. I'm not sure there's a way around THAT at all. Luckily, Paul actually drinks forum tears, so we should still get these weapons in game, so that's a plus.

[VYCanis]

oh god, it'll be the tf2 weapon drama all over again

*queue staccato beat speading up and gaining volume leading into a frantic PTSD flashback*

DURR, sandman is broken, use a real weapon!
Bodyshotting sydney sleeper sniper u suk
OMG Jarate is so disgusting, ruins the game
Oh MY GOD force of nature is OP
W+M1 Backburner pyro lern 2 play
Real players use this gear combo!
You are not using this gear combo, yuo suk, loesr!