39 replies to this topic

[Felbombling]

This has probably already been floated as a fix, but I'm wondering if PGI could code the cluster pattern to include a solid round and then some sub munitions... say LB 10-X had a single slug doing five points and five sub munitions at a single point each? LB 20-X would be a single 10 pointer and ten one point sub munitions, etc.

I kind of like this because you wouldn't have to select firing modes or take different ammunition types into battle... just the best of both worlds. Thoughts?

[Voq]

It kind of sounds like a weapon that's just pretending to be the real deal.
I get a "sh*t or get off the pot" kind of feeling about it. Are you a shotgun? Or slug weapon?

In the end, your suggestion is basically to make it suck less by making it a pinpoint weapon... in the end you might as well just take the pinpoint weapon you're trying to emulate.

I'd think we'd be better off trying to invent some way to make it useful in the first place.

[cSand]

step 1 : open up mech with some other weapons

step 2: fire shotgun

step 3: profit

[Christof Romulus]

Step 1: Free up one additional ton.
Step 2: Equip the AC 10
Step 3: Profit

[Voq]

cSand, on 23 February 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

step 1 : open up mech with some other weapons

step 2: fire shotgun

step 3: profit

Others have demonstrated very well that it doesn't work as a crit-seeker like it pretends to. You're still better off just taking a different weapon to finish off components.
And on top of that, the spread is high enough that the function you're describing still only works at point blank.

In the end, if you took an AC10 you could have used it BOTH to strip the armor AND to actually finish off the part doing both just better than the LBX.

[cSand]

The LBX is just so satisfying though

[bluesmith]

The best way to balance MGs and LBs would be to allow for engine destruction via critical hits. As the game currently stands, engines have HP and can be critically hit, but such critical hits don't actually reduce said engine HP. If this were changed, MGs and LBs would have a definite place in the game as powerful "clean-up" weapons, especially against high-structure assaults. Of course, damage numbers may need to be adjusted.

[Bishop Steiner]

http://mwomercs.com/...b-10x-proposal/ taken from an older post

Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:52 AM
I totally dig the canister shot idea someone proposed. Instead of a shotty, which kinda doesn't make sense, have it fire a solid projectile which then detonate via proximity fuse like 10-20 meters from the enemy mech (HSR should be able to handle this, as the whole point of it is to know where things are supposed to be), spreading the sub-munitions into the current CoF.

The LB-X is supposed to have LONGER range than the AC10, which is one of the number one reasons it fails in the shotgun version, because in TT, one could conceivably land all 10 sub-munition on target 540 meters.

To balance it vs the AC/10, instead of outright obsoleting it, leave it's current rate of fire alone, and damage and heat, and simply extend the range to where it should be. As a further "balancer" for being cooler, and lighter, whereas most ballistics can hit at 3x their range, have the canister detonate when it hits 540 and follow the current CoF mechanics shown. This gives it half or less the theoretical maximum range of the AC/10, and yet vastly increases it's usefulness and allows it to fulfill most of it's TT functions.

I'm pretty sure we will NEVER see alternate munition capability, but this gives it at least some of the usefulness back, and should be comparably easy to implement, whereas most other proposals still leave it ridiculously range nerfed from it;s intended form.

And since Paul likes his chalkboard so much, to make sure this is EASY to understand, like Heat Escalation......


nuff said

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 February 2015 - 12:32 PM.

[cSand]

I would like to see more critical locations, like they had before.. Gyro etc with different effects if you take em out


So, maybe someone can answer this for me, as it stands right now, if you land a crit, you potentially take out any piece of equipment in that body part right? So you could blow up a JJ, a BAP, a laser, etc...

Is that right?

[Voq]

That looks amazeballs Bishop.
One can dream.

And I'll give you cSand, the LBX can be a blast to use. I'm just sad it doesn't really work.

[FupDup]

To difference the LB-X's between each faction...

IS: Increase damage per pellet to some amount, at least 1.2-1.4.

Clan: Tighten the shotgun cluster dramatically.


This would make the IS versions more of an up-close tear-your-face-off mega shotty, with the Clan version being more range-oriented.



Whatever happens, the LB 2-X needs to have 2000 m/s velocity instead of 1330 m/s. That has got to be an oversight...

[Pjwned]

Somewhat interesting idea but I don't see how it makes much sense honestly, I would rather just see the number of pellets reduced if the goal was to make the weapon more pinpoint.

It would also really help if the critical hit system didn't suck so much since, despite being designed to do extra critical damage, LB-X cannons are actually worse at destroying things in critical slots generally.

As far as LB-10 X vs AC10 currently, I do like that the extra crit damage from the pellets (when it works out) means (even more than usual) extra damage to the component structure due to 15% of crit damage adding to structure damage, which can mean an astronomical 19 damage in 1 shot against a breached component if you're extremely lucky, but unfortunately that doesn't really outweigh the negatives that it has unless you use it on a ridiculously quirked mech like the CN9-D and even then it can be arguable.

Edited by Pjwned, 23 February 2015 - 01:25 PM.

[wanderer]

StaggerCheck, on 23 February 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

This has probably already been floated as a fix, but I'm wondering if PGI could code the cluster pattern to include a solid round and then some sub munitions... say LB 10-X had a single slug doing five points and five sub munitions at a single point each? LB 20-X would be a single 10 pointer and ten one point sub munitions, etc.

I kind of like this because you wouldn't have to select firing modes or take different ammunition types into battle... just the best of both worlds. Thoughts?

Or, you know, they could just build a weapon prompt with two options and a linked cooldown.

I push weapons group 1, it fires a solid shot and both prompts start cooldown. I push 2, it fires cluster.

Make the LB-X have a slower ROF and bigger damage falloff vs. standard AC's for the flexibility and slightly lower tonnage (more so for the IS -10X). Problem solved.

[Golden Vulf]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 February 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...b-10x-proposal/ taken from an older post

Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:52 AM
I totally dig the canister shot idea someone proposed. Instead of a shotty, which kinda doesn't make sense, have it fire a solid projectile which then detonate via proximity fuse like 10-20 meters from the enemy mech (HSR should be able to handle this, as the whole point of it is to know where things are supposed to be), spreading the sub-munitions into the current CoF.

The LB-X is supposed to have LONGER range than the AC10, which is one of the number one reasons it fails in the shotgun version, because in TT, one could conceivably land all 10 sub-munition on target 540 meters.

To balance it vs the AC/10, instead of outright obsoleting it, leave it's current rate of fire alone, and damage and heat, and simply extend the range to where it should be. As a further "balancer" for being cooler, and lighter, whereas most ballistics can hit at 3x their range, have the canister detonate when it hits 540 and follow the current CoF mechanics shown. This gives it half or less the theoretical maximum range of the AC/10, and yet vastly increases it's usefulness and allows it to fulfill most of it's TT functions.

I'm pretty sure we will NEVER see alternate munition capability, but this gives it at least some of the usefulness back, and should be comparably easy to implement, whereas most other proposals still leave it ridiculously range nerfed from it;s intended form.

And since Paul likes his chalkboard so much, to make sure this is EASY to understand, like Heat Escalation......


nuff said

That is neither fun, nor a fact.

[mogs01gt]

Just give it more crit ability.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

1. Tighten spread
2. Increase pellet damage by 50%
3. Remove silly crit mechanics
4. Profit!

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 23 February 2015 - 01:27 PM.

[EvilCow]

Tighter spread, 20% more damage per pellet and increased crit capability, it is not even good at what it is supposed to do, it needs a LOT of help.

[N a p e s]

Last time we had a bunch of threads about the LB10 nothing was done about it but it really only affected one weapon. Now there's a whole variety of them so can we actually get some changes? Please PGI! For the love of shotgunny love!

I've always liked the idea of putting the LB-X weapons into a brawler oriented niche with longer recylce times but elevated damage stats. This goes against the lore where these things benefit from extended range over the vanilla AC's but fits them more nicely into the context of MWO where they're giant mech shotguns.

If we consider the AC10 as our baseline autocannon with a DPS rating of 4 than the LB version should put DPS this weapon to compensate simply because part of that damage is inherently spread. Increasing cooldown doesn't really work, we've already seen the outcome thanks to quirks, so why not increase damage per pellet? 1.5 dmg/pellet with a 3 second cooldown would lead to 15 damage and 5 DPS. The additional 0.5 dmg/pellet would also naturally increase crit damage by a small margin.

It would place the LB10 somewhere between the regular AC10 and AC20, being higher damage but slower delivery. Likewise with the other sizes of these guns.

In exchange for these buffs we could increase/decrease the other stats like heat and range to match that of the regular autocannons.

All this is of course just a suggestion and should be open to modification should it need something else or should it prove OP (probably won't cause of spread).

TL;DR
1.5 damage per pellet, slower RoF. Turn the guns into brawling weapons that deal a lot of damage if not a little unfocused.

[Felbombling]

Well, everyone knows the AC/10 is a viable alternative, but I'm a little bummed about Clan LB's mostly. When the first Clan Mechs came out, Russ was on NGNG telling everyone how they couldn't code the varied ammo loads, and that the Clan Autocannon was a stop-gap measure to make up for that. Now we're on Clan Wave III and still no update to the LBs. I remember blasting a Mech in the back with lasers and the LB for a full minute wondering what was heck was going on, why wasn't the LB doing anything? I don't think I've mounted one since.

Some good ideas here, though. Thanks for posting.

[FupDup]

StaggerCheck, on 23 February 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

Well, everyone knows the AC/10 is a viable alternative, but I'm a little bummed about Clan LB's mostly. When the first Clan Mechs came out, Russ was on NGNG telling everyone how they couldn't code the varied ammo loads, and that the Clan Autocannon was a stop-gap measure to make up for that. Now we're on Clan Wave III and still no update to the LBs. I remember blasting a Mech in the back with lasers and the LB for a full minute wondering what was heck was going on, why wasn't the LB doing anything? I don't think I've mounted one since.

Some good ideas here, though. Thanks for posting.

A code workaround might be to just have LB's use a single ammo type for both pellet and slug modes? Then we wouldn't need to worry about multiple ammo types interacting...