29 replies to this topic

[Sargon X]

I'm not really a "new" player, but I haven't played a lot and am still very inexperienced.

I just can't seem to do respectable amounts of damage in any match. I have been piloting a Warhawk with 2 Gauss rifles and a Medium laser and I average between 100-200 damage per match, which usually puts me toward the bottom of the pack.

Shouldn't I be doing more damage with an assault mech? Is there anything specific that I could be doing wrong or it is likely just bad aim, bad tactics, etc?

[Tarl Cabot]

More details.

Which mech/payload? Opps, warhawk - ton mech to play with gauss rifle, and only one CMLS? Using a gauss rifle with its pull/release trigger can be tough. It also means you can not really brawl but you need also need a wingman for when another mech closes to you. Your load out is one of the issues. I will let others provide assistance a change in payload.

What other classes have you played and how did you do in them?
How are you engaging the enemy?
How long do you last?

If you are able to generate a video of your game play. Just remember though, the bigger the mech the higher in the priority list to destroy it goes. People are more likely to target you than that hunch or cicada standing next to you.

Damage is calculated from direct damage (Weapon damage) and ammo explosions. The huge numbers you see others has some sort of ammo explosion damage included, usually more than one, even if it does not kill the target. IS mechs with ammo tend to store them in the legs whereas clan mechs will store them in the torsos/arms since leg storage is not available (used by FF/ES crits).

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 15 February 2015 - 10:15 PM.

[Phobic Wraith]

Well, there could be a number of problems with this scenario. Honestly there's not enough information for me to render an judgment, but I'd say the problem is likely a combination of two things.

First and foremost, are you surviving most matches? if you're not, then you need to be working on survivability. If you can't make it the entire match, you can't do damage throughout the entire match.

Second problem, damage isn't a good indicator of how you're performing. If you're doing lots of damage but you aren't getting kills then you're not really contributing to the team. When I run pinpoint builds I do less damage than builds that spread damage all over. That's just the way of the game. I'd rather shoot once and get a kill than shoot 4 times and get a kill. 2 Gauss rifles is a pinpoint build. I would worry less about the damage and more about getting the kill and therefore the win. Damage will come over time.

Another possibility could be the build itself. There might be a better way to do it besides Gauss and a medium laser.

[Soultraxx]

Hello OP.

I started playing at the beginning of December and I would say it took me two months to start doing ok in matches.

I had to find a chassis that just "felt right" and it took a long time.

I am utterly hopeless in Assaults (except KGCs for some reason) and have had a few sub 100 matches in my Dires. Im not much better in Lights either.....to cut a long story short, my go to Mechs are my Ice Ferrets and maybe not so much my 'Crows.

Ok, so Ive actually not given you any advice apart from keep your options open - dont spoil your fun by trying to grind out competence in one chassis when/ if you have a choice.

[StonedDead]

Ah, a fellow Illinoian! I'm sorry.

You probably just need more time in the mech and to play with the build more. It can take a long time to really get a mech down, and it makes a big difference as to whether you have them basiced(or mastered) or not. Even if it goes against your play style, try a different builds to give you an idea of what it's fully capable of. If you're not used to a weight class and you set it up to play like a different class you're used to, you might not be able to run it like you did a similar loadout on a smaller mech. There really is a big difference between classes and they don't play the same. I say just give it time and/or try new weapon loadouts till you find something you're comfortable with.

If you're not using smurfy you should be, it's a great site to play with builds before you put em on your mech.

Something else I thought of. If you get bored sometime, try practicing with the gauss in the training grounds. find a flat piece of ground and go full throttle while twisted to hit your targets. Your mech will bounce around, but it can simulate the lead somewhat that you need to hit a moving target with the gauss. You might be surprised. It's not the most ideal lead practice, but it might help with aiming if you think it might be a problem.

Edited by Zekester81, 15 February 2015 - 11:31 PM.

[Icthelion]

Whattup OP. I am in somewhat the same boat as you and Soultraxx... I started this game in January and most of the time I am averaging what you are averaging... But I am in a medium (I think mediums are for me). I am taking things really slow though... First I played a trebuchet, which seems to be a support class. That means, find a king crab or an Atlas and follow behind them watching for those dirty dirty lights that like to run up behind them and poke them in the butt. If none are around, I would try and shoot whatever the Assault was shooting at. This also introduced me to what the assault role should look like and was an intro to the map. Then I graduated to my AC20 hunchback (which I still love) that is much more of a brawler, but still slow enough to hang with the assaults... I get big damage from that guy. And now I am focusing on my Ice ferret, which is completely different and seems more like a diversion mech than anything else.... Poke your head out... shoot.. maybe twice... relocate... repeat. I am not getting big damage with this guy but what I am doing is distracting 2 to 4 mechs away from the main fray. I good team will take advantage of that and push..

This may be my type O personality coming through, but really... What are you enjoying? If you love your Warhawks build, then rock with it. You will get better the more games you play... You will die alot, sure... but the more you stick it out... the more you will learn and more effective you will be.

[Appogee]

Your loadout doesn't do enough damage per second (DPS) to get a higher damage score. Gauss has a long reload time, and a single ML only does 5 damage.

Dual Gauss consumes way too much tonnage for a Warhawk IMHO. The chassis features heaps of mandatory heat sinks, so you can afford to use lasers - which are much lighter - to get higher DPS, without running into heat problems.

You can also shave your leg armor down to 70% of max to give you more tonnage to play with.

Here are a couple of my Warhawks to get you started:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9e8e33419190974

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a4902b7a6b0e44c

They're not the highest DPS you will find in MWO - the Warhawk chassis has its limitations, such as the mandatory crapton of heat sinks, and less tonnage overall than a Dire Whale. But you will find these much better than what you've been using in terms of DPS.

EDIT: fixed an error.

Edited by Appogee, 16 February 2015 - 04:20 AM.

[StonedDead]

Icthelion, on 15 February 2015 - 11:26 PM, said:

Whattup OP. I am in somewhat the same boat as you and Soultraxx... I started this game in January and most of the time I am averaging what you are averaging... But I am in a medium (I think mediums are for me).

Try a Shadowhawk.... I love mediums, but wow. If you're really into mediums, they can be brutal in the right hands.

[SilentScreamer]

Sargon, a few scenarios that lead to low damage /scores and suggestions to fix the problem:

1) Getting destroyed early in the match. Let your teamates be the first in the fight, support, but don't lead the charge.
2) Running out of ammo. Either you are wasting shots or put too little ammo in the mech.
3) Never encountering the enemy, or getting into the battle too late to help. Again, stick closer to teamates.
4) Overheating and shutting down in combat. Fire less energy weapons, or use chainfire.
5) Friendlies are always blocking your shots. Be patient, hold your fire, more targets will come.
6) You shoot an enemy mech, but it won't drop. Watch your targets damage, sometimes shooting legs will lead to a faster kill.
7) Just can't hit with your shots. Fast mechs with experienced pilots will dance around assault mechs, weapons like pulse lasers and streak missiles can be more effective than gauss.

Edited by SilentScreamer, 15 February 2015 - 11:45 PM.

[Donnerkeil666]

Appogee, on 15 February 2015 - 11:32 PM, said:

I expect you don't have the Endo Steel upgrade on your Mech. Add it to create more tonnage for weapons.

You can't change that on a clan mech. Existing upgrades are locked.
Lights and assaults are the most difficult mechs to play. Try medium or heavy laser vomit builds. Much easier to track your target.

Edited by Donnerkeil666, 15 February 2015 - 11:49 PM.

[SnagaDance]

I'll second the remark on you being a priority target. If there's 2-3 mechs standing there and only 1 of them is an Assault then it will be focussed on. Especially by more experienced players because they know that that big boy needs to go down FAST.

Being in a Clan mech doesn't help either as the other players tend to associate them with players having a lot of C-bills (which are mostly the more experienced players)

And when I see something like that dual gauss load out? Then I'm giving you even more attention. Because if you're an accomplished pilot you could do horrible damage with that, blowing off damaged components of me and my buddies, or simply coring right through them.

In other words, we see you walking the walk, and we're not waiting to see if you can actually talk the talk.

So you could either 'git gud' or you might want to lower yourself on the threat list. Go and play some Mediums for instance (disclaimer: the Stormcrow is considered the best Medium in the game, guess how much attention that might get you).

[Appogee]

Donnerkeil666, on 15 February 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

You can't change that on a clan mech. Existing upgrades are locked.

Of course you are correct. Thanks for picking up my error.

I have amended my post above.

Edited by Appogee, 16 February 2015 - 04:18 AM.

[Nayonac]

I like something like his, er ppc's for range and if they get in range face smash them with the srm6 and LBX (also great for lights)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...13769e0aee6c4f5

Just took the build for a spin, nothing special and my first game of the day so not the best, but it should give you an idea
http://gyazo.com/353...2daf7d6b9366684

Edited by Nayonac, 16 February 2015 - 04:57 AM.

[Catra Lanis]

Phobic Wraith, on 15 February 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

Well, there could be a number of problems with this scenario. Honestly there's not enough information for me to render an judgment, but I'd say the problem is likely a combination of two things.

First and foremost, are you surviving most matches? if you're not, then you need to be working on survivability. If you can't make it the entire match, you can't do damage throughout the entire match.

Second problem, damage isn't a good indicator of how you're performing. If you're doing lots of damage but you aren't getting kills then you're not really contributing to the team. When I run pinpoint builds I do less damage than builds that spread damage all over. That's just the way of the game. I'd rather shoot once and get a kill than shoot 4 times and get a kill. 2 Gauss rifles is a pinpoint build. I would worry less about the damage and more about getting the kill and therefore the win. Damage will come over time.

Another possibility could be the build itself. There might be a better way to do it besides Gauss and a medium laser.

I will have to disagree on this, sure if you are doing lots of damage but get no kills you might not be as effective as you could be but it hasn't to be the case every time. Imagine that you damage two mechs within an inch of their lives and someone else get the kill. Or imagine that you get 600 damage and severly damage 3 mechs. You can't say that it isn't contributing. Every single point of damage is an investment for the late stage of the match and makes the job a bit easier for your teammates.

Edited by Catra Lanis, 16 February 2015 - 04:38 AM.

[SethAbercromby]

Phobic Wraith, on 15 February 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

Second problem, damage isn't a good indicator of how you're performing. If you're doing lots of damage but you aren't getting kills then you're not really contributing to the team.

I call massive BS on that one. Any damage you do is damage soneone else doesn't need to do. Claiming that only the kills count is a huge disservice to those that prepared them for you. Damage is not the primary factor, since someone that does low damage but got a lot of kills was good in finishing off annying stragglers, someone that did low damage and didn't score kills could still have contributed by providing the team with a vital ECM blanket.

Truth be told, one of the few factors that really matters is "were you satisfied with your contribution to the match?"

[Macksheen]

Someone just posted as a new player they were feeling the learning curve, and I think that's what's going on here.

It may not seem like it - maybe you've got tons of experience w/ BT and other mech-based / similar games or maybe you're a rocking CS / twitch player and you can't help but think those skills must transfer.

They all do, and that's the thing. Driving and shooting is only a part of it; knowing the maps, the feel for how some mechs will turn, where to find and grab cover, the feel for cooldowns, how to shoot at specific parts that you know by looking at the mech in question will hit ammo or destroy their XL engine - that stuff just takes time. Sometimes lots of it. You don't need a super awesome DPS build to get a high damage score - I mean some folks tear the world up in a locust - but you do need a solid build.

• Be patient, especially in the solo queue. Sometimes you get a group that moves fast together towards a goal, but more often than not you get two groups of moderate skilled folks who will capitalize on early-match mistakes. Don't be an early match mistake.
  
• Try to understand what the team is doing and why
  
• Figure out what weapon systems you do well with; stick with them as you learn a new mech
  
• Some mechs are very different after you're done with Elite; don't give up
  
• Find a group or some folks to talk to and hit up on TS or through PMs for advice and help - check out the factions hall for who's looking for new players (hint: lots of people)
  
• Spectate and learn from your teammates - good and bad
  
• Use the R key and try to absorb quickly what it is showing you
  
• Don't get greedy - that usually leads to mistakes

Edited by Macksheen, 16 February 2015 - 05:28 AM.

[Chaosity]

What was said earlier about surviving is true. Without changing mechs my average damage went from around 150-200 to 500-800 a couple of months ago when I got less aggressive and tried staying alive. Kills went from an average of about 0.5 to 1-4 a drop. This was NOT on a WHK, but on an MDD, but the strategy is the same.

Also, it looks like you want to snipe. But I would guess that in close contact brawling you're getting eaten alive with only that one laser. Let me suggest the following build. 4 ERL lasers for range and sniping (2 groups... right arm, left arm, and a 3rd preconfigured for chain firing all 4 lasers). 4 SRM6+Art with 5 tons of ammo, which can do 48 points of in your face splatter (1 group). Also a CAP for quicker locks and therefore quicker targeting for picking a weak body part to shoot at (not to mention countering nearby ECM for your mates). And finally a minimal Targeting Computer which adds a lot of things like extended laser range, better zoom, and more, the most important of which is how well it increases critical hits.

Depending on your play style you might want to fine tune it, as it can run hot if you're not careful.

If interested: WHK-B: 4 ERL, 4 SRM6+Art, CAP, MK-I

[MechWarrior3671771]

"Spectate and learn from your teammates - good and bad"

Can't push this enough - I have learned the most (and quickest) from watching my team after I die. New players should stay for the entire match. You will see people do things with builds and moves (jump srm boat omg) you never thought of. You'll run across a vet in your mech and say "oh so that's what weps work on that" etc.

After a few weeks you'll know enough to even Monday Morning Quarterback (silently pls) your surviving team mates. Wifey has been laughing at me screaming into the screen "YOU GOT KILLED BECAUSE YOU LEFT YOUR WINGMAN! AGGGG!!"

So, spectate spectate spectate. Its like dropping 3-5 times in 15 mins. Faster learning curve.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 16 February 2015 - 08:26 AM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"If you're doing lots of damage but you aren't getting kills then you're not really contributing to the team."

"I call massive BS on that one. Any damage you do is damage soneone else doesn't need to do."

Agreed. I just flanked and tickled an Assault at long range. Plink. Plink. Plink.

He got so annoyed that he pulled off the battleline to turn his guns at me. That's about 100 damage I saved you from taking, and is likely what allowed you to push that battleline and rack up kills without eating AC20.

Pilots that are adapting based on their kill/damage stats are selling themselves short. Some of these matches you can "win" before the first shot is fired.

[Rogue Jedi]

your biggest problem is probably the Warhawk, not that the Warhawk is a bad Mech (it can make an excellent energy boat or LRM boat, or mix of the 2, although I would advise switching 1 Gauss for a pair of PPCs or LPLs) but that it looks a lot like a Dire Wolf, couple that with the fact that you are mounting dual Gauss Rifles and people will see you and think something along the lines of "oh no, dual Gauss Dire Wolf we need to kill it now".
the Warhawks biggest disadvantage is that it looks a lot like the Dire Wolf from certain angles