66 replies to this topic

[BARBAR0SSA]

Wait, can you drop CW mode private matches?If not, then don't use 12 v 12 and the sole balancing argument, maps and objectives are completely different along with team tactics.


Now regardless of that, I have no idea why the blackjack had its quirks changed.

Edited by shad0w4life, 17 February 2015 - 04:57 PM.

[TercieI]

That Guy, on 17 February 2015 - 04:12 PM, said:

its also kinda like they nerfed the locust 1E and 3M, and the firestarter still runs free and unmolested

Huh? Yes, they smashed the 3M, but the 1E got a massive buff.

[Deathlike]

That Guy, on 17 February 2015 - 04:12 PM, said:

its also kinda like they nerfed the locust 1E and 3M, and the firestarter still runs free and unmolested

3M has no purpose anymore (and its hardpoint locations are inferior).. the 1E got a lateral move that increased its diversity while trading specific weapon buffs.

Edited by Deathlike, 17 February 2015 - 05:10 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Arrow is doing ok so far, as long as there is something to get up on top of.

Still alot of facetime, but that little extra range is nice for the MG's.

I still think the BJ-1 needs to dump the AC-2 quirks though, Champion default load is AC-20, even as a trial its a great mech and its so well suited to the role.

AC-2, even without ghost heat, is laughable without its old range stats.

Edited by Mister D, 17 February 2015 - 05:16 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Mister D, on 17 February 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

Arrow is doing ok so far, as long as there is something to get up on top of.

Still alot of facetime, but that little extra range is nice for the MG's.

I still think the BJ-1 needs to dump the AC-2 quirks though, Champion default load is AC-20, even as a trial its a great mech and its so well suited to the role.

AC-2, even without ghost heat, is laughable without its old range stats.

Do you mean that the hottest Autocannon in the game with the weakest projectile that has the longest range of any ballistic weapon in BattleTech should have the longest range of any ballistic in MW:O?


NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!



Edit - I miss my effective BlackJack 1-DC.
Edit2 - Patching takes too long. I'm stuck here, venting about my beloved previously-OP BlackJack.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 17 February 2015 - 06:06 PM.

[oldradagast]

Prosperity Park, on 17 February 2015 - 06:02 PM, said:

Do you mean that the hottest Autocannon in the game with the weakest projectile that has the longest range of any ballistic weapon in BattleTech should have the longest range of any ballistic in MW:O?


NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!



Edit - I miss my effective BlackJack 1-DC.

PGI hates AC2's. Remember when they started to cut ballistics weapon ranges down to only double listed, but they only did it for the AC2... resulting in a laughable month where the AC2 had shorter max range than the AC5? They just don't understand balance. They'll make easy changes like that incrementally for no good reason, but swap out entire quirks without even a warning or explanation, mucking things up.

Edited by oldradagast, 17 February 2015 - 06:07 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

oldradagast, on 17 February 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

PGI hates AC2's. Remember when they started to cut ballistics weapon ranges down to only double listed, but they only did it for the AC2... resulting in a laughable month where the AC2 had shorter max range than the AC5? They just don't understand balance. They'll make easy changes like that incrementally for no good reason, but swap out entire quirks without even a warning or explanation, mucking things up.

Well, they decided to reduce the BlackJack 1-DC's autocannon firepower by 25% with the new quirk adjustments.

That's a pretty substantial difference to me. That's like scaling back the AC/20 to an AC/15.

Edit - Oh, yeah, heat has been increased by more than 100%. I guess the Clans were afraid of the mighty BlackJack 1-DC ripping through their StormCrows.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 17 February 2015 - 06:42 PM.

[LordBraxton]

This thread deserves more attention.

I, for one, am so glad to see PGI making the right moves for once!!

I wasn't surprised to see blackjacks flooding the fields. I was one of the first to see its potential, so I slaughtered pugs for a few evenings before the reign of the blackjacks. Im so glad we can go back to seeing less OP 45 tonners in the queue. I just couldnt bring any of my other mech and feel competitive.

Thank god I won't have to use that mech I paid for ever again!

Edited by LordBraxton, 17 February 2015 - 06:47 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

LordBraxton, on 17 February 2015 - 06:46 PM, said:

This thread deserves more attention.

I, for one, am so glad to see PGI making the right moves for once!!

I wasn't surprised to see blackjacks flooding the fields. I was one of the first to see its potential, so I slaughtered pugs for a few evenings before the reign of the blackjacks. Im so glad we can go back to seeing less OP 45 tonners in the queue. I just couldnt bring any of my other mech and feel competitive.

Thank god I won't have to use that mech I paid for ever again!

Well, you CAN use it again, albeit with 25% less DPS and 100% more heat, and 0% competitiveness.

Well, if you think about it, doubling heat reduces the damage output vastly, so let's just say the BlackJack 1-DC now has about 1/2 the firepower it used to have (combining 25% reduced DPS with doubled Heat/Dmg).

Edited by Prosperity Park, 17 February 2015 - 07:18 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

I love it, though...I have to ask.

What was the motivation or event that caused you to go from being a previous forum mod to a now (apparently) bitter member of the ForumWarrior: Online team?

[Felicitatem Parco]

Lyoto Machida, on 17 February 2015 - 07:16 PM, said:

I love it, though...I have to ask.

What was the motivation or event that caused you to go from being a previous forum mod to a now (apparently) bitter member of the ForumWarrior: Online team?

Well, I used to participate and help with stuff... but I have gotten a little miffed by the fact that this game has so much potential that isn't being realized.

For Example, this game was supposed to be built on the premise that all Mech Classes will have a meaningful purpose in the field, and that there would be no power-creep moving from Lights-to-Heavies, or moving from IS-to-Clan.

That means that InnerSphere Medium Mechs should be as useful as Clan Heavies. Is that the case now? Please name some of the Inner Sphere Medium Mechs that would be valid and fielded regularly in a MatchMaker with no weight restrictions.

I am upset that the BlackJack 1-DC, the only medium that I have ever felt was finally up to par with the design basis of this game, was nerfed back to "just a crappy Medium."

[Siegegun]

I for one am relieved. No longer will I have to face OP blackjacks match after match. Finally PGI nerfs this beast of a chassis back to where it belongs! Time and time again I have come around a corner only to realize too late... a Blackjack is there ready to unleash its fury upon me! And it does not even matter what I am in! Assault- I am dead. Heavy- I am dead. Medium- I am dead (unless I am in an OP Blackjack, but I feel bad if I use one, so I never do. Plus who needs a crutch mech). light- I am definitely dead.

Just as I was about to make a whine/nerf thread for it threatening to quit the game if it was not looked at. WHEW!

[Felicitatem Parco]

Siegegun, on 17 February 2015 - 07:39 PM, said:

I for one am relieved. No longer will I have to face OP blackjacks match after match. Finally PGI nerfs this beast of a chassis back to where it belongs! Time and time again I have come around a corner only to realize too late... a Blackjack is there ready to unleash its fury upon me! And it does not even matter what I am in! Assault- I am dead. Heavy- I am dead. Medium- I am dead (unless I am in an OP Blackjack, but I feel bad if I use one, so I never do. Plus who needs a crutch mech). light- I am definitely dead.

Just as I was about to make a whine/nerf thread for it threatening to quit the game if it was not looked at. WHEW!

I knooooowwww...

The BlackJack 1-DC really needed a 100% heat increase and a 25% DPS decrease in order to bring it in-line with other "average" Mediums, like the ShadowHawks.

Heck, The FireBrand JagerMech has the same number of hardpoints as these BlackJacks, and I know how badly the JagerMechs fare in matches compared to BlackJacks.

[Y E O N N E]

Not sure where all of the complaining is coming from. The previous quirks did not make the BJ-1X or BJ-1DC any more "viable" because both of them had serious drawbacks that the Blackjack, as a chassis, can not support under more competitive conditions. It has large-ish side torsos, it has no arms to shield them with, and it is the second lightest class of Medium. They were very feast or famine.

A BJ-1DC build that is far more consistent includes a pair of Large Lasers and four Mediums to back it up, with MGs or heat-sinks as you please. Or an AC/10 with four medium lasers. Or even an AC/5 with six medium lasers.

BJ-1X is far more consistent with at least six medium lasers and an engine near max size.

For both variants, you don't even need an XL.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yeonne Greene, on 17 February 2015 - 08:05 PM, said:

Not sure where all of the complaining is coming from.

Um... a Quirk V.2 BlackJack 1-DC with 2X AC/2 has 25% lower DPS and 100% greater heat generation than a Quirk V.1 Blackjack with 2x AC/5.

That's the complaint: 25% less DPS, and 100% more heat on a BlackJack. Not a StormCrow, a BlackJack.

[Davegt27]

lol I had to read the original post a few times

"In other news, I lost my favorite build-out in the game, and have no explaination as to why."

what was that?

[Felicitatem Parco]

Davegt27, on 17 February 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

lol I had to read the original post a few times

"In other news, I lost my favorite build-out in the game, and have no explaination as to why."

what was that?

BJ1-DC, XL200, 2 AC/5, 8 tons of ammo... The only Medium that I felt could actually hold its own.

It wasn't OP, It was Properly Powerful. PP, if you will. Low PPFLD, High DPS; low armor, high weapon mounts; moderate maneuverability and speed. It let me top the charts on good games, I got nil in bad games.

I loved it. It was my Go-To for months because it was thrilling to be in a paper-thin death machine.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 17 February 2015 - 08:47 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Prosperity Park, on 17 February 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

Um... a Quirk V.2 BlackJack 1-DC with 2X AC/2 has 25% lower DPS and 100% greater heat generation than a Quirk V.1 Blackjack with 2x AC/5.

That's the complaint: 25% less DPS, and 100% more heat on a BlackJack. Not a StormCrow, a BlackJack.

Right, but you got that DPS on the back of several gambles. You either ran a slow STD 200 or a squishy XL225. You either chose ammo or armor. Backup weapons were not an option.

There are, and have always been, better builds available for any range than hyperactive, twin AC/5. Builds that don't require you to shield an XL-equipped side torso and don't require you to just sit there and try to out-DPS all the things by using your face to buy time. It relies on your opponent being either inept or being let down by the rest of his team.

Note, I'm not saying that those builds being lamented over were not fun or were not effective in the right hands. I am saying that they didn't really do anything to help the Blackjack as a chassis because of those trade-offs. The "best" 'Mechs don't have to make such trade-offs. The new AC/2 quirks allow it to be effective with ACs in a similar manner, all because AC/2 weigh less. But if you really want to maximize the utility on a Blackjack, you'll run an energy-focused build. That has always been the case, and continues to be the case. It's not particularly imaginative and it may not be that fun for you, but the BJ-1DC has always been better when you make the energy weapons its bread and butter. It does have six of the damn things, so energy weapons is kind of the point when you choose it over the BJ-1.

So....

...because the complaint rests on a foundation that believes the twin AC/5 build was the best one, and because that build has never been the best one, I find it hard to consider the complaint with any level of seriousness. The BJ didn't get nerfed. It was buffed.

[SoMuchGin]

Disapointing about the 1DC but reasonably happy with the 1X and 3.

With the extra RT/LT structure (BTW is that unseen armour or internal structure points?) I'm considering running an XL. The 3 lost 10% PPC range but made up for it with extra 7.5% PPC cooldown (E and PPC) plus going from 0% heat to -20% PPC heat (E and PPC).

So a nerf for the 1DC, slight changeout for the 1X and a buff for the 3?

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yeonne Greene, on 17 February 2015 - 09:10 PM, said:

Right, but you got that DPS on the back of several gambles. You either ran a slow STD 200 or a squishy XL225. You either chose ammo or armor. Backup weapons were not an option.

There are, and have always been, better builds available for any range than hyperactive, twin AC/5. Builds that don't require you to shield an XL-equipped side torso and don't require you to just sit there and try to out-DPS all the things by using your face to buy time. It relies on your opponent being either inept or being let down by the rest of his team.

Note, I'm not saying that those builds being lamented over were not fun or were not effective in the right hands. I am saying that they didn't really do anything to help the Blackjack as a chassis because of those trade-offs. The "best" 'Mechs don't have to make such trade-offs. The new AC/2 quirks allow it to be effective with ACs in a similar manner, all because AC/2 weigh less. But if you really want to maximize the utility on a Blackjack, you'll run an energy-focused build. That has always been the case, and continues to be the case. It's not particularly imaginative and it may not be that fun for you, but the BJ-1DC has always been better when you make the energy weapons its bread and butter. It does have six of the damn things, so energy weapons is kind of the point when you choose it over the BJ-1.

So....

...because the complaint rests on a foundation that believes the twin AC/5 build was the best one, and because that build has never been the best one, I find it hard to consider the complaint with any level of seriousness. The BJ didn't get nerfed. It was buffed.

2x AC/5 with a 40% CoolDown reduction is far superior to 2x AC/2 with the current quirk set. It was AwesomeSauce. Now it's just a thin reduction that's been overheated.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 17 February 2015 - 09:17 PM.