34 replies to this topic

[MATRAKA14]

Firebrand

Torso Yaw: 100 °
Max Engine: 340
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LT): 7.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RT): 7.00
PPC VELOCITY: 20.00 %
PPC HEAT GENERATION: -7.50 %
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -7.50 %
ENERGY COOLDOWN: 10.00 %
BALLISTIC VELOCITY: 10.00 %
LASER DURATION: -10.00 %

Left Arm 1B, 1E
Left Torso 1 AMS, 2 E
Center
Right Torso 2 E
Right Arm 1 B, 1 E
Engine 130 - 340
100° / 0°
20° / 35°


K2

Torso Yaw: 110 °
Arm Pitch: 45 °
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (CT): 10.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LA): 10.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RA): 10.00
PPC VELOCITY: 20.00 %
MEDIUM LASER DURATION: -7.50 %
LASER DURATION: -7.50 %
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -10.00 %
BALLISTIC RANGE: 10.00 %

Left Arm 1 E
Left Torso 1 B, 1 E
Center none
Right Torso 1 AMS, 1 B, 1 E
Right Arm 1 E
Engine 130 - 315
110° / 0°
16° / 45°

Seriusly i don't see the point on this.

Edited by MATRAKA14, 18 February 2015 - 04:56 AM.

[Deathlike]

These two mechs were an issue from the start when the Jager was added.

The Firebrand has been superior to the K2 for a while, and ironically the K2 didn't even an ERPPC velocity quirk.

It's a failure to balance for a while now.

Edited by Deathlike, 17 February 2015 - 03:33 PM.

[MATRAKA14]

Even with the "PPC VELOCITY: 20.00 %" the ppcs are too slow, the k2 works better with erppcs even without major quirks, its a nonsense, and the firebrand its just better.

[Funky Bacon]

K2 should get a 50% PPC velocity bonus for arm mounted PPC's.

[occusoj]

MATRAKA14, on 17 February 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

Seriusly i don't see the point on this.

Dont even try to find a point in the quirkening scheme.

PGI seems to hate the Cats with a passion.
The PPC velocity makes no sense at all, if anything it has to be for the ERPPC.
Much more energy heat and cooldown reduction would be needed to get anywhere near making it viable.
Id happily trade that 10% ballistics range for energy buffs.

In any case, the torso yaw limitation has to go.

The K2 could be fixed in a matter of seconds. Just type that into the K2s quirks list:
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (CT): 10.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LA): 10.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RA): 10.00
ERPPC HEAT GENERATION : -15%
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -25%
ERPPC VELOCITY: +50%
ERPPC COOLDOWN: +15%
ENERGY COOLDOWN: +15%
BALLISTICS COOLDOWN: +10%

Ballistics can (or should?) be exchanged for laser beam duration to help ERLL builds.
You think those quirks are too much and cant be done? Well, look at the CDA-3C.
Bring it on PGI.

[Uthael]

occusoj, on 17 February 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

(...)The K2 could be fixed in a matter of seconds. Just type that into the K2s quirks list:
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (CT): 10.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LA): 10.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RA): 10.00
ERPPC HEAT GENERATION : -15%
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -25%
ERPPC VELOCITY: +50%
ERPPC COOLDOWN: +15%
ENERGY COOLDOWN: +15%
BALLISTICS COOLDOWN: +10%
(...)

CDA-3C is still bordertrash because it has only one energy hardpoint. I did leave you a like there, because K2 is much inferior to a JM6 and needs better quirks. But the changes you've proposed would be too much for them to appear in-game in healthy numbers.

Edited by Uthael, 17 February 2015 - 05:16 PM.

[Tahribator]

The Firebrand has better convergence with the ballistics and the energies and is arguably tankier. K2 has better torso twist and is a better hillhumper with the arm energies, but that's it.

[occusoj]

Uthael, on 17 February 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

CDA-3C is still bordertrash because it has only one energy hardpoint.

It certainly is. The hardpoint limitation hits it hard and it lacks JJs.

Uthael, on 17 February 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

But the changes you've proposed would be too much for them to appear in-game in healthy numbers.

They wouldnt make the K2 a meta monster, the base chassis has bad hitboxes and even better quirks wouldnt save it.
Though toning them down a bit wont hurt too much, especially on velocity and heat. But one always gets less than wished for, so better start high .

IMO the K2 not only suffers from a massive CT but also from a somewhat big difference in cockpit to weapon heights on all hardpoints. A nice example of good weapon-to-cockpit arrangement is the Thud. Catapult is far from that.

[Y E O N N E]

The base chassis has hit-boxes that let it run an XL with near-impunity to XL weaknesses.

50% velocity boost with a 40% heat reduction on ERPPC puts it way up there, and all you'd see in CW would be K2s blasting away at anybody attempting to shoot the gate generators on Boreal. Like the Thud, only better because that XL also lets it fit in two ER LL and still have sufficient cooling for all of it. PPCs for full damage at the longest of ranges, ERLL for instant damage at any range.

Also, PPCs don't go in the arms unless you like not having PPCs for very long.

I think safer would be a combined 25% reduction in heat on ERPPC, tops at 30%. Velocity should similarly be no faster than 30% over stock, either. I don't think they need to be light-speed. It shouldn't be easy to just plug a target at 900 meters. If you want that, use the ER LL.

[El Bandito]

occusoj, on 17 February 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

The K2 could be fixed in a matter of seconds. Just type that into the K2s quirks list:
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (CT): 10.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LA): 10.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RA): 10.00
ERPPC HEAT GENERATION : -15%
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -25%
ERPPC VELOCITY: +50%
ERPPC COOLDOWN: +15%
ENERGY COOLDOWN: +15%
BALLISTICS COOLDOWN: +10%

Hahahaha, NO. For a mech with such good positioned arms and can hill-hump like a boss, +50% ERPPC velocity as well as 40%! heat reduction is simply OP. 40% velocity and 25% heat reduction on ERPPCs is much more sensible.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 February 2015 - 09:23 PM.

[TyphonCh]

occusoj, on 17 February 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

Dont even try to find a point in the quirkening scheme.

PGI seems to hate the Cats with a passion.
The PPC velocity makes no sense at all, if anything it has to be for the ERPPC.
Much more energy heat and cooldown reduction would be needed to get anywhere near making it viable.
Id happily trade that 10% ballistics range for energy buffs.

In any case, the torso yaw limitation has to go.

The K2 could be fixed in a matter of seconds. Just type that into the K2s quirks list:
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (CT): 10.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LA): 10.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RA): 10.00
ERPPC HEAT GENERATION : -15%
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -25%
ERPPC VELOCITY: +50%
ERPPC COOLDOWN: +15%
ENERGY COOLDOWN: +15%
BALLISTICS COOLDOWN: +10%

Ballistics can (or should?) be exchanged for laser beam duration to help ERLL builds.
You think those quirks are too much and cant be done? Well, look at the CDA-3C.
Bring it on PGI.

Hahahaha. NO. (^ lol)

Sorry to break it you bud, but making something senselessly OP isn't a fix. Look what happened to the thunderbolt

[627]

Is really anyone using PPCs on a firebrand? I see AC40 and gauss all day but PPCs?

[TyphonCh]

627, on 17 February 2015 - 11:39 PM, said:

Is really anyone using PPCs on a firebrand? I see AC40 and gauss all day but PPCs?

If not, they may now.
I recently rebuilt mine with the xl 340, 2 arm mounted ppc, 4 ml, and 2 mg. It was fun before these new quirks so I'm excited to try it out now. I still throw dual guass on for old times sake

Edited by Team Chevy86, 17 February 2015 - 11:51 PM.

[Yosharian]

I use 2xERLL 2xUAC5 on my Firebrand. Wouldn't consider using PPCs, they suck ass.

[MeiSooHaityu]

The Catapult just needs a lot of loving in the PPC department.

I'd rather see it shifted to ERPPCs for one since the mech is a heavy and needs somesome added close range defense. I'd also like to see 40% Velocity on the ERPPCs (or PPCs if that weapon absolutely needs to stay).

Heat management can stay pretty close to what it is now and I'd feel ok about that.

I'm sure the K2 will get addressed in a future pass, but I am always leery about how it will be treated.

[EvilCow]

It would be OK to give K2 better quirks but those should be about normal PPCs, not ERPPCs, the TDR 9S already does that.

[MeiSooHaityu]

EvilCow, on 18 February 2015 - 03:57 AM, said:

It would be OK to give K2 better quirks but those should be about normal PPCs, not ERPPCs, the TDR 9S already does that.

I'm not really sure I see where that matters.

Both the Hunchback 4G and Centurion AH have A/C20 quirks and they are the same class. Both the Cicada and Vindicator have PPC quirks.

The K2 is long range fire support. It has to be longer range for it's own protection. Besides, it is rather vulnerable at close range with just PPCs. Honestly, if it had 6 energy like the Jester, I'd say PPCs are fine. With only 2 additional energy and even the small ballistics (like A/C5s or an A/C10) you could run, it is badly vulnerable at close range.

If they introduce a no minimum range quirk for PPCs, then I'd be ok with PPCs much more than I am now.

[Satan n stuff]

MATRAKA14, on 17 February 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

Even with the "PPC VELOCITY: 20.00 %" the ppcs are too slow, the k2 works better with erppcs even without major quirks, its a nonsense, and the firebrand its just better.

PPCs are just fine if you use them at their intended range. 950 speed with 540 optimal range gives you about half a second of travel time, are you saying you can't lead that?
No-one's going to be dodging that fast because mechs aren't nearly agile enough for that, so if you can't hit a target at that range the projectile speed really isn't the problem.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 18 February 2015 - 04:24 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Satan n stuff, on 18 February 2015 - 04:23 AM, said:

PPCs are just fine if you use them at their intended range. 950 speed with 540 optimal range gives you about half a second of travel time, are you saying you can't lead that?
No-one's going to be dodging that fast because mechs aren't nearly agile enough for that, so if you can't hit a target at that range the projectile speed really isn't the problem.

What your saying does make sense, but that extra 20% makes a lot of difference.

I have been playing Vindicators for the past few weeks and they have 40% PPC velocity on the 1AA and the 1R. The difference is night and day. The PPCs on a Vindicators are such fun to use compared to the K2.

The Catapult K2 is the machine built around PPCs. This variant was built specifically for delivering PPCs to an opponents face. It shouldn't do PPCs worse than other IS mechs like the Vindicator (or even Thud really).

Even though the K2 probably won't get ERPPC quirks (mostly wanted for short range defense more than additional range), it should get the absolute best PPC quirks. It shouldn't be a mild step above no PPC quirks.

[Alistair Winter]

The CPLT-K2 is so far from being OP, it's not even funny. The Firebrand is basically the same mech, but with 2 free energy hardpoints and higher engine cap. Except its arms aren't extremely big and easy to shoot off.