43 replies to this topic

[Talynn DeRaa]

The Ebon Jaguar. A 65 tonner made of sheer devastation. In the Tabletop, it was either seen on the edge of the battle, or found obliterating the backs of unsuspecting mechs, such are the tactics are of Clan Smoke Jaguar: kill fast and without question, honor through the thrill of the kill. The Cauldron Born performs this role in spades in the Tabletop with its configurations from Prime, to C, up til 3058. And hell, the thing was so fresh and new, even some Clanners called the Ebon Jaguar by its IS Name: The Cauldron Born. This name was well deserved, as the other feature of the Ebon Jaguar was that if engaged in heated combat, it was observed the machine could keep fighting long after most mechs were rendered combat ineffective, this, and despite it being only 65 tons, did have quite a lot of armor (and even better, pod space)

In Mechwarrior 3, the Ebon Jaguar made its debut as one of the playable mechs in it. And oh, was it a -beautiful- machine in MW3:


It was short, it was wide, and it packed one -hell- of a punch at anything that tried to stand toe-to-toe with it. It made a second appearance in Mechwarrior 4, as part of the Official Clan Pack available for Vengeance, and Mercenaries:


While it wasn't as short as the original Ebon Jaguar, it was still a very short 65 ton Heavy. Many other mechs still towered over it. And now, it makes yet another appearance for us, in Mechwarrior Online, though, only with a silhouette at the moment.
This silhouette has me a little concerned about the Ebon Jaguar...which brings me to the main topic of this post.


This machine, while impressive for a 65 tonner, had the best reign of power because of its extremely low profile for being a 65 ton mech. Much like the 100 ton King Crab, this machine was made to be low to the ground and faced head-on in combat. If this machine stands up really tall like how it does in the concept artwork silhouette, it may end up being very easy pickings. But, if this is only for the sake of visual appeal, and the final model will have leg positions more squat to the ground, then all will likely be good. For the most part. The other problem of this design is what I fear is the same problem of the Nova: The wide profile of the machine will make out for some very large hit-boxes when presented to a battle. From the front, easily attackable side-torso, and from the side, a clear-sight shot towards the CT, maybe even the cockpit. However, PGI has been known to make use of some wide mechs and giving them good hitboxes, again, a good example of this being the King Crab and its resilience, despite its wide profile.

But how about you? What are your gripes, concerns, and speculations of the Ebon Jaguar / Cauldron Born? What do you expect out of it or what they hope to do with it?

And, as a small off-topical addin, I sketched up a little something based on the silhouette:



Kind of threw this quickly together, but man, I am pretty excited for this machine. But how about you, what are your thoughts, concerns, hopes, and ideas?

[Destructicus]

I feel like they're gonna make it all weird looking by eliminating the low profile aspect of it, much the same way they made the vulture look weird by getting rid of the hunched over look in favor of a more stretched out set of legs.
A low profile would curb any attempt at poptarting and give the few members of this community who feel the need to cry about every minor detail of every single thing because they're bad one less thing to complain about.

Edited by Destructicus, 21 February 2015 - 11:07 AM.

[Talynn DeRaa]

Destructicus, on 21 February 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

I feel liek their gonna make it all weird looking by eliminating the low profile aspect of it, much the same way they made the vulture look weird by getting rid of the hunched over look in favor of a more stretched out set of legs.
A low profile would curb any attempt at poptarting and give the Is bads who feel helpless because they can't adapt one less thing to complain about.

I really do hope they don't do that. Maybe a slightly higher profile than normal, perhaps similar to that of the Storm Crow in terms of height, but hopefully nothing higher.

[Destructicus]

Take a look at classic Mad dogs compared to the MWO mad dog
the reason the mad dog looks so awkward is because the legs aren't bent enough
It's one of those things you can't unsee.

[the hedgehog]

Destructicus, on 21 February 2015 - 12:29 AM, said:

Take a look at classic Mad dogs compared to the MWO mad dog
the reason the mad dog looks so awkward is because the legs aren't bent enough
It's one of those things you can't unsee.

From looking at pictures of the maddog and the mwo version they have different style of legs.

mwo uses knees while the others don't.

[Talynn DeRaa]

Suppose it is, but I never thought the Mad Dog was awkward in that sense. I found little wrong with it, aside with how...odd the arm pods were between concept art and final design.

Also, wouldn't this mean that the Timber Wolf is also at fault for having legs that aren't bent enough? Despite that, that machine bears striking similarities to its TT profile and profile of other MW games.

But suppose they do give the Cauldron Born / Ebon Jaguar those "Un-bent" legs, that would be very rather problematic.

Edited by Talynn DeRaa, 21 February 2015 - 12:35 AM.

[Hadrogh]

I really hope for a low profile. I totally share the concerns of Talynn. :/

[Risko Vinsheen]

I'm with you on the concerns that they'll make the Cauldron-Born too tall. Being squat and hard to hit was a key feature of the mech.

Also I think we should have a serious discussion with PGI about using the Inner Sphere designation ingame over the Clan one. Smoke Jaguar were pretty much the only people who called it the Ebon Jaguar. Everyone else, even the other Clans, used Cauldron-Born, and let's face it... Cauldron-Born sounds WAY cooler than Ebon Jaguar.

[Talynn DeRaa]

Risko Vinsheen, on 21 February 2015 - 12:43 AM, said:

I'm with you on the concerns that they'll make the Cauldron-Born too tall. Being squat and hard to hit was a key feature of the mech.

Also I think we should have a serious discussion with PGI about using the Inner Sphere designation ingame over the Clan one. Smoke Jaguar were pretty much the only people who called it the Ebon Jaguar. Everyone else, even the other Clans, used Cauldron-Born, and let's face it... Cauldron-Born sounds WAY cooler than Ebon Jaguar.

I certainly hope this topic raises awareness to PGI about the leg positioning of the mech, and how they should go about implementing it.

And I don't care which name they use, I think both of them sound pretty bad-ass.

[Ralgas]

someone mock one up out of a nova with madcat srm pods and jagger arms (shorten the torsao obviously)

[kapusta11]

I'm glad it will be tall, hate the original design. It doesn't matter much in MWO though, the fact that you have 90% of torso surface, guns and cockpit on the same level is good enough and it doesn't appear to be that wide.

[Shatara]

A good start would be to get rid of that barbie-doll waist joint.

[KuroNyra]

I think the overall design will be nice... But I really fear the height of the mech... And especially what they do with the legs...

Already seem to have the same problem than the Timber Wolf when it came out.

[Talynn DeRaa]

KuroNyra, on 21 February 2015 - 01:42 AM, said:

I think the overall design will be nice... But I really fear the height of the mech... And especially what they do with the legs...

Already seem to have the same problem than the Timber Wolf when it came out.

The Timber Wolf overcame is physical design flaws through its firepower, speed and versatility. The Cauldron Born / Ebon Jaguar has nearly the same capacity to do what the Timber Wolf did, albeit with less armor, but one more ton of pod space with max armor over the Timber Wolf. Not to mention the absurd number of possible loadouts given what pods we're being given.

4SRM6's with 2UAC5's is one possible loadout, 2 UAC20's is another, or an array of lasers for maximum vomiting. Hell, even the stock configuration of the A loadout is already deadly on its own. A friend of mine suggested a build that has a Gauss Rifle mounted on the A's right torso, with 3 ERLL's on the A's left torso, which would allow the mech to fire its main long-range weapons above hills, and then to back it up it would have 4 ERSL's in the B's arms.

So perhaps even if the thing may be tall in the game, it would still have a lot of devastating loadouts to choose from.

Edited by Talynn DeRaa, 21 February 2015 - 01:50 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

It is too tall in that placeholder artwork.

He's hoping the actual artwork is smaller and squat, it will already be fairly wide like the Nova and suffer terrible hitboxes because of its shape.

Else imagine how the Bushwacker will look ...........

Edited by DV McKenna, 21 February 2015 - 01:55 AM.

[Nightshade24]

I do not have problems with the mad dog (vulture) at all. I didn't notice there was a problem until now with it. However to me it looked like an Anubis kinda with the missiles in the top areas and such....

But the ebon jaguar... I vote for a lower profile ASAP.... this thing was literally DESIGNED around it... Giving it no low profile is like making a Hunchback have a "Shadowhawk" size hunch...

Someone please forward this to PGI....

[Talynn DeRaa]

Nightshade24, on 21 February 2015 - 01:55 AM, said:

I do not have problems with the mad dog (vulture) at all. I didn't notice there was a problem until now with it. However to me it looked like an Anubis kinda with the missiles in the top areas and such....

But the ebon jaguar... I vote for a lower profile ASAP.... this thing was literally DESIGNED around it... Giving it no low profile is like making a Hunchback have a "Shadowhawk" size hunch...

Someone please forward this to PGI....

This is PGI's forum. They'll notice it. Weather or not they'll act on it is the question.

[Nightshade24]

Screw it, Everyone who saw it so far said it was the SEXIEST mech in MW: O yet

I think the 'tallness' is just a perspective thing (fingers crossed) and I REALLY hope my faith isn't falling to deft ears.

I am getting the 120 USD pack (sounds a lot more bigger in 160 NZD....) BUT I have faith.

This mech has AMAZING weapon locations, hardpoints, and looks. I will not accept doubts.

[LordKnightFandragon]

my only concern for it is the fact it looks like its going to be overscaled, like every other mech in this game.

[Ryoken]

I agree that the legs are to tall.

I know the original TRO designs geometry does not allow functional legs and torso twist so it is a good thing they changed it. But they definitively should make the legs shorter.