66 replies to this topic

[Kevin Kirov]

Does anyone have a list of what the main 'ethnicity' of each clan are?
a few are more obvious than others but i was wondering what the more obscure clans are?
thanks for helping

Edit: woops Ethnicity

Edited by Kevin Kirov, 25 November 2011 - 04:46 PM.

[Cyber Carns]

look here: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clans

[Alizabeth Aijou]

¿Elasticities?

Anyway, the Clans are as following:
http://www.sarna.net...an_Blood_Spirit
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Burrock
http://www.sarna.net...lan_Cloud_Cobra
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Coyote
http://www.sarna.net...n_Diamond_Shark
http://www.sarna.net...n_Fire_Mandrill
http://www.sarna.net...Clan_Ghost_Bear
http://www.sarna.net...oliath_Scorpion
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Hell's_Horses
http://www.sarna.net...lan_Ice_Hellion
http://www.sarna.net...lan_Jade_Falcon
http://www.sarna.net.../Clan_Jade_Wolf
http://www.sarna.net...i/Clan_Mongoose
http://www.sarna.net...i/Clan_Nova_Cat
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Sea_Fox
http://www.sarna.net...an_Smoke_Jaguar
http://www.sarna.net...Clan_Snow_Raven
http://www.sarna.net...Clan_Star_Adder
http://www.sarna.net...lan_Steel_Viper
http://www.sarna.net...Clan_Stone_Lion
http://www.sarna.net...Clan_Widowmaker
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Wolf
http://www.sarna.net...n_Wolf-in-Exile
http://www.sarna.net.../Clan_Wolverine


Clan Jade Wolf was a short-lived Clan in 3057/3058.
Clan Wolf(-in-Exile) split into two in 3057.
Clan Sea Fox was renamed Diamond Shark in 2895.
Clan Stone Lion was created in 3074/3075.

[Januarus]

Clan UN-NAMED died in 2823 (Annihilation )
Clan Widowmaker died in 2834 (Absorption )
Clan Burrock died in 3059 (Absorption )
Clan Smoke Jaguar died in 3060 (Annihilation )
Clan Ice Hellion died in 3074 (Absorption )
Clan Fire Mandrill died in 3074 ( lost all Kindraa in varios trials , last by Absorption)
Clan Steel Viper died in 3075 (Annihilation )
Clan Blood Spirit died in 3075 (Annihilation )

EDIT: Heresy.

Edited by Garth Erlam, 15 December 2011 - 10:44 AM.

[MarauderDeuce]

I think people are answering the wrong question. I think Kevin's genuinely asking about ethnicity represented by the clans - such as the Draconis Combine culturally represents Japan.

The answer (IMHO) is that the clans are deliberately without ethnicity - they breed through artificail means and mix parents with an aim of best creating the better warrior. They have no interest from my reading and memory in race, only in proven performance.

You'll do better thinking of the Clans as religions, their religion shapes how they're brought up and the overall focus of the clan and defines the differences between the clans and often how they interact - but race is not a factor.

Oh, and please don't start thinking of the clans actually as religions - I believe you'll find them athiestic.

[kevin roshak]

MarauderDeuce, on 27 November 2011 - 03:48 AM, said:

I think people are answering the wrong question. I think Kevin's genuinely asking about ethnicity represented by the clans - such as the Draconis Combine culturally represents Japan.

Yes
however some have large cultural elements built in, like the Ghost Bears Bloodnames, ideas of family and their style of combat (Norse), and the Jade Falcons seem to have a Japanese-ish culture.
But the other ones seem harder to define and better fit the description you made

[Zendric]

I think the Jaguars are black people.

[kevin roshak]

Zendric, on 27 November 2011 - 05:08 PM, said:

I think the Jaguars are black people.

any reason as to why?

[Xarg Talasko]

Lincoln Osis, I believe Leo Showers, and I'm pretty sure Franklin Osis were described as black. That said, I'm also confident at least Trent was white/lightly tanned, so I'd go as far as to say Smoke Jaguar is multi-ethnicity. Not too many of the character have an ethnicity described unless it's obvious like CapCon or DC. I'm guessing it's just not that important to the Clans.

[kevin roshak]

Some Clans seem more heterogeneous than others

[Xarg Talasko]

I've been told Horse is black but that's never mentioned in the books, and to be honest, some of the earlier novels actually grated me a little like that, it's like they couldn't stop mentioning that character X was black in one way or another, and I couldn't help but think "Ok I know that already, why do you keep bringing it up?". I'm sure if the homeworld Clans had been described in detail greater than "they exist" you'd have more room for multi ethnicity Clans.

[OmegaOme]

interesting comparisons guys i'm new to the world of MechWarrior but some of these comparisons already clear up what i was gonna ask. Nice job fellas

[Alizabeth Aijou]

MarauderDeuce, on 27 November 2011 - 03:48 AM, said:

I think people are answering the wrong question. I think Kevin's genuinely asking about ethnicity represented by the clans - such as the Draconis Combine culturally represents Japan.

Not applicable.
They don't care about the colour of your skin.
And pretty much every clan has white, black and yellow skin colours amongst their bloodhouses.

Same goes for the IS houses.
Draconis Combine?
We've got instances of people with black-coloured skin wielding katanas and wearing kilts.
The combine also has a population that originated from north africa, as well as from scandinavia (FRR used to be part of the DC). Heck, that's how Swedenese got into existance.

Capellan Confederation?
They've got baltic people in there.

Quote

You'll do better thinking of the Clans as religions, their religion shapes how they're brought up and the overall focus of the clan and defines the differences between the clans and often how they interact - but race is not a factor.

Religion? Not really.
Its more of a philosophy.
The only religious clan is the Cloud Cobras, and they got a dozen different ones to which you can ascribe.

EDIT: Now with less Racial Epithet!

Edited by Garth Erlam, 15 December 2011 - 10:46 AM.

[Renegade]

The 5 houses are ethnicities.

The Clans are themes.

[CoffiNail]

The 5 houses represent ethnicity but Battletech is very much non racist... just houseist? The Combine had a lot of ethnicity in it, it was not until 2980 or so iirc that the current coordinator locked down to more Japanese Bushido tradition heavily then before where it just kind of influenced, Japanese was also made the official language at that time. It slowly did become more 'raceist' after a while and in 3049 it is heavily Japanese based.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Quote

The Combine had a lot of ethnicity in it, it was not until 2980 or so iirc that the current coordinator locked down to more Japanese Bushido tradition heavily then before where it just kind of influenced, Japanese was also made the official language at that time.

I call bullshit on that.
It was Tenno Kurita (2305-2376) who first instigated the Japanese-esque culture for the Draconis Combine.
Urizen Kurita II further reinforced that notion in the first half of the 27th century, instigating Kokugaku (national learning), and Bushido.
By the time Urizen Kurita II retired, the nation was pretty strongly influenced by ancient Japan, Bushido was mandatory for all MechWarriors, etc.

Quote

Urizen's Legacy
When Urizen Kurita stepped down as Coordinator of the Draconis Combine in 2691, he left a realm radically altered. Because of his many official and unofficial policies, his domain had taken on a nearly uniform culture and a quite disturbing fanaticism. Gone were the trends toward a mellowing and melding of cultures to create something unique among the races and ages of man. Urizen’s mandate to the Internal Security Force had effectively put a stop to that. ...
...The last and perhaps most damaging effect of this imposition of the medieval Japanese culture upon the many billions in the Combine was to give the ISF more power then ever. Indeed, they now had carte blanche to practice their dark ways.

Edited by Alizabeth Aijou, 02 December 2011 - 08:42 AM.

[CoffiNail]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 02 December 2011 - 08:28 AM, said:

I call bullshit on that.
It was Tenno Kurita (2305-2376) who first instigated the Japanese-esque culture for the Draconis Combine.
Urizen Kurita II further reinforced that notion in the first half of the 27th century, instigating Kokugaku (national learning), and Bushido.
By the time Urizen Kurita II retired, the nation was pretty strongly influenced by ancient Japan, Bushido was mandatory for all MechWarriors, etc.

MMhm but it was Hohiro Kurtia of 2980 that re strengthened the concept of Bushido and the language. He tried to make Japanese the only language but the population would not allow it. House Kurtia Soucebook from the 80s roughly page 84.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Hohiro Kurita? He pretty much crippled the realm with this "dragon reforms".
Quite the opposite of Urizen Kurita II, who strengthened the realm.

Quote

Under the banner of “Dragon Renewals,” the Coordinator took away the few services existing for the aid and relief of the lower classes. When he even attempted to close down the ComStar Hospices, officials turned him away with a reminder of what was within our power to do. -House Kurita, Page 86.

Language became another point of contention. Coordinator Hohiro wished to make Japanese the realm’s only accepted language, with violations punishable by a public whipping. When news of this spread throughout the realm, it sparked off angry public demonstrations despite the tyranny of the times. -House Kurita, Page 86.

Hohiro was not amused by the fact that many merchants, bankers, and industrialists resented his efforts to tighten his hold on the Combine. When some of these came to him to protest his harsh policies, Hohiro seized their holdings and had them beheaded. This led to an unprecedented revolt known as the Strike of 2989, in which major Combine industries shut down in protest against Hohiro’s tyranny. Though the Coordinator tried everything from executions to attempting to run the factories with soldiers, he could not break the will of the wealthy bankers and industrialists. -House Kurita, Page 87.

As the year 3000 approached, Hohiro had been in power for 37 years, and the Draconis Combine showed the effects. Exhaustion, fear, and fatalism seemed to rob the Draconian people of their spirit. Among all the harsh Coordinators of the Combine, Hohiro had proved to be the most cruel. -House Kurita, Page 87.

While Hohiro’s policies were causing one of the few public demonstrations of mass disobedience in the history of the Draconis Combine, the Combine military was suffering under its own set of new policies. -House Kurita Page 87.

Now all actions had to pass through the High Command, which resulted in a military very sluggish about responding to new situations. Also taking its toll was the ultra-harsh treatment of the soldiers, which Hohiro seemed to feel was beneficial to warriors. The constant terror under which the average soldier now lived was making him dull, completely lacking in the fire that had formerly characterized the Kurita troops. -House Kurita, Page 87.

If anyone expected Hohiro’s new leniency to continue after the New Year’s celebration, they were sadly disappointed. Immediately after the festivities were over, the Coordinator reimposed all the harsh edicts. He even strengthened some of them to help “strip away the laziness the celebrations caused.” -House Kurita, Page 88.

No small surprise that he got assassinated.

Quote

I could never understand my father’s harsh attitude toward the people. You would not give constant whippings to a horse you must ride every day. The beast would either throw you off or die. That’s no way to treat a horse or a realm.
—Coordinator Takashi Kurita to Precentor Ambassador Isabel Sephran,
3005

[Atlas3060]

Ok back to Clans.
I'd wager that the Clan heritage is more of a philosophy than ethnicity, while true some have adopted certain ethnicities within the Inner Sphere (Ghost Bears and the Rasalhaugians, Nova Cat and the Combine's people) the predominate background is based on their founders.

Take Fire Mandrills and Nova Cats for example.
Nova Cats were founded by Phillip Drummond and Anna Rosse, though not technically married they were together and created a child named Sandra. Phillip's ethnicity is rather vague on the sarna link and I don't have my Klondike book with me so I'll probably supply that later when I get home. Anna, who lived in a Italian villiage, did believe in the idea of visions and rituals. This same belief was passed down to Sandra who founded the mysticism of the Nova Cats which probably incorporates lots of different vision rituals but lately in the books and Dark Age memorabilia watered them down to "Clan Native American".

Now that they are within the Inner Sphere, specifically the Draconis Combine, they've used their rituals and beliefs in associating with some of the Draconians. In fact they now have a Kurita as their Oathmaster, Minoru Nova Cat (formerly Kurita), so it isn't easy to nail down what specific ethnicities make up their heritage but their philosophy is that of visions, mysticisms, and the idea that though the future is in flux certain things could be inevitable.

Now let's explore a Homeworld clan such as the Fire Mandrills.
Being a Homeworld clan means they still reside mostly within the Homeworlds of the Clans and haven't really partaken to the Invasion of the Inner Sphere. Nova Cat was an Invading Clan while Fire Mandrills have not touched the Inner Sphere.

Fire Mandrill was founded by Raymond Sainze, a former Draconis Combine citizen, and Laura Payne who was not of the Combine and yet again I'll need my books to fill this out. While Sainze did encourage the method of bushido to his newfound Clan he was also a very private man. He encouraged competition within even his own people. While that is a laudable goal to better yourself it also requires cooperation to temper it otherwise you get a fracticious clan which was the fate of the Mandrills.

One could simply equate that since Sainze was Combine that the Fire Mandrills are Space Japan like the Combine. However this is countered by the fact their philosophy is more of compete with anyone even your own Clan instead of the top down ethos that the Dracs have where your superior officer is word of god unless the Coordinator says otherwise. Fire Mandrills tend to group among Kindred Associations, Kindraas, and they even fight their fellow Kindraas much like gang warfare. It is this lack of coordination that screwed their chances to invade the Inner Sphere.

If they even managed to do such a thing I could see them break up badly because the Spheriods could have manipulated each Kindraa due to their philosophy of fighting amongst themselves.

Does this help expand what others were saying?

edit: *Bleep* me I completely missed Alizabeth Aijou's post about philosophy.

Edited by Atlas3060, 02 December 2011 - 12:39 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 25 November 2011 - 04:02 PM, said:

¿Elasticities?

Clan Stone Lion was created in 3074/3075.

DA BS - I do not acknowledge its veracity.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 04 December 2011 - 10:35 AM.