77 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Pump those jumpjets, brah

Who knew this thread would turn into a Clan vs IS debate? Anyone?

[Lucian Nostra]

Alistair Winter, on 24 February 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

Pump those jumpjets, brah

Who knew this thread would turn into a Clan vs IS debate? Anyone?

The second I saw the forum topic? "DAMN THOSE TIMBER WOLVES" oh.. fix it on all mechs actually..

[RedDevil]

I blame pinpoint accuracy in this game for JJ nerfs and ghost heat. I would much rather jump jets that let you fly and no ghost heat, than a pin-point accuracy system that rewards skill. Then again, I don't mind a little RNG as much as many other people.

Edited by reddevil, 24 February 2015 - 09:21 AM.

[Deathlike]

YueFei, on 22 February 2015 - 11:21 PM, said:

Almost all mechs have spaztastic fall animations. Look at the way an Atlas pitches over when it falls a few meters.

When torso twisted to the side it'd warp your Atlas hitboxes something fierce. Maybe even duck under a shot.

It's just that the Atlas can't do it on-demand cuz it ain't got the jumpjets, see?

Maybe they should allow ALL mechs to do these spaz-outs, even the ones without jump jets. Tap spacebar with no jump jets equipped? No problem, your mech will just do its fall animation.

Did you just endorse "flopping" in MWO? What did you think this was, a real sport?

The defense of a bad "feature" that is only abuseable by mechs equipping JJs is appalling.

Unfortunately the ETA for this is probably "not soon™ enough".

[Karenai]

My mates are telling me I should bunnyhop. I almost never do. I do believe bunnyhopping does help, especially to keep damage from hitting legs, but it is not as much of a problem, as people say. No hopping involved:

[Paigan]

Aresye, on 22 February 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

I don't see how that relates to the discussion. I'm fine with Timberwolves and other mechs having locked jump jets. I'm talking about the bunny hopping animation problems that cause hitbox and HSR issues, which allow Timberwolves to survive many shots that would kill and/or cripple it.

I'm a passionate TBR player and I knew the hopping thing (although only from the sounds when slamming the space key), but I didn't know until now that it could be exploited to mess up hitboxes.

Thank you! Gonna try that.

On a more serious note: If that is so, I'm all for fixing it nevertheless. Unintended advantages are bad.
I'd rather be awesome on a level plain field than by fighting down hill.

They could, however, fix a few other hitboxes alongside, like the SCR for example.
SCRs kill me all the time and when I'm in a SCR, I kill TBRs all the time.
Something's not right there...

[Deathlike]

Protip for shooting "hoppers" - aim high (towards the nose)... you'll actually be able to hit them to a degree.

[Cyborne Elemental]

[YueFei]

Deathlike, on 24 February 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

Did you just endorse "flopping" in MWO? What did you think this was, a real sport?

The defense of a bad "feature" that is only abuseable by mechs equipping JJs is appalling.

Unfortunately the ETA for this is probably "not soon™ enough".

Diving seems to work for a lot of players in soccer. Why not bring such a Pro ™ strat to MWO?

[Golden Vulf]

Unlock jumpjets from all clan mechs and make them either all or none as far as equip goes for ALL mechs.

Put them in the upgrades section. When you select to have them on, your mech gets stripped except for jump jets, similar to upgrading Artemis.

[PhoenixFire55]

People who know how to aim have no problems killing TWs or any other fast moving target. If you have hit reg issues then they are present for all mechs from a Locust to an Atlas and TWs have nothing to do with it. Blame the overall sh!tty code, not the TW specifically.

[PholkLorr]

Thanks for highlighting that "exploit". Will do it on all my jj mechs now.

[Dino Might]

The problem comes from JJ mechs that have a crouching animation when they hit the ground. They added in the initial jump thrust when they nerfed jets to hover status, so now what you have is a near instant warp up into the air a few meters, and then a sudden crouch when it hits the ground. But overall, the mech center of gravity doesn't move more than a dozen meters. This causes the hitboxes to be all wonky for the shooter, because on other people's screen the mech jump/crouch animation isn't synced.

Certain mechs have this jump/crouch animation much more pronounced. The Timberwolf is probably the most easy to see and biggest offender, but every mech with JJs has it to some degree. If the Atlas had jets, you would see this in spades, and I think it would be the new metamech of the IS - I can't tell you how many times I've missed the RT shot because the Atlas dropped off a 2m ledge and did it's shoulder roll/crouch animation. Firestarters definitely have it, but they are so small that it's not as noticeable with them.

They've desynced PPC/Gauss, added shell drop to ACs. The underlying issues with the pop-tart era are gone, so they should bring JJs back to normal (allow stuff to actually fly rather than hover) and do something to prevent feathering the jets.
Give the jets a heat value applied for ignition, but not for duration of burn. So you can hit the jets once, get a little bit of heat, but no more added if you hold down for the full burn. If you feather them, you are going to be building up heat fairly quickly, and probably not able to shoot much of your laser vomit as a result.

It balances attack/defense. You can still use the jump jet disruption, but it will cost you. You can't just arbitrarily spam it at will throughout the entirety of combat. This solution requires no additional animation coding, no major changes to the visuals, and makes jets less of a crutch and more of a tradeoff for their maneuvering benefit.

Edited by Dino Might, 25 February 2015 - 04:24 AM.

[YueFei]

Dino Might, on 25 February 2015 - 04:22 AM, said:

The problem comes from JJ mechs that have a crouching animation when they hit the ground. They added in the initial jump thrust when they nerfed jets to hover status, so now what you have is a near instant warp up into the air a few meters, and then a sudden crouch when it hits the ground. But overall, the mech center of gravity doesn't move more than a dozen meters. This causes the hitboxes to be all wonky for the shooter, because on other people's screen the mech jump/crouch animation isn't synced.

Certain mechs have this jump/crouch animation much more pronounced. The Timberwolf is probably the most easy to see and biggest offender, but every mech with JJs has it to some degree. If the Atlas had jets, you would see this in spades, and I think it would be the new metamech of the IS - I can't tell you how many times I've missed the RT shot because the Atlas dropped off a 2m ledge and did it's shoulder roll/crouch animation. Firestarters definitely have it, but they are so small that it's not as noticeable with them.

They've desynced PPC/Gauss, added shell drop to ACs. The underlying issues with the pop-tart era are gone, so they should bring JJs back to normal (allow stuff to actually fly rather than hover) and do something to prevent feathering the jets.
Give the jets a heat value applied for ignition, but not for duration of burn. So you can hit the jets once, get a little bit of heat, but no more added if you hold down for the full burn. If you feather them, you are going to be building up heat fairly quickly, and probably not able to shoot much of your laser vomit as a result.

It balances attack/defense. You can still use the jump jet disruption, but it will cost you. You can't just arbitrarily spam it at will throughout the entirety of combat. This solution requires no additional animation coding, no major changes to the visuals, and makes jets less of a crutch and more of a tradeoff for their maneuvering benefit.

I like your solution alot.

[Slow and Decrepit]

Either that or do like a Gauss charge delay, that would keep you from using them as a way to avoid damage......

[Sarlic]

Today we had about 3 or 4 bunny hopping T-wolfs on the opposite team.

The amount of people repeating and or tapping heavily with that chassis is super annoying and requires no skill. They can tank almost the twice of damage.

We need a fix soon.

Edited by Sarlic, 01 March 2015 - 06:11 AM.

[Wolfwood592]

Technically PGI would hit ya hard if you were exploiting the game...or so they say......

Sooooooo, if you wanted to, just record them doing it, send it to PGI and leave it be.


Than, feel bad for the clowns who have to use it to be successful. Even clanners have no honor it seems!

[FaceRipt]

Aresye, on 22 February 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

I don't see how that relates to the discussion. I'm fine with Timberwolves and other mechs having locked jump jets. I'm talking about the bunny hopping animation problems that cause hitbox and HSR issues, which allow Timberwolves to survive many shots that would kill and/or cripple it.

I believe what the op was saying is there were many people who like me were using the s torsos for the ballistic hard points without equipping the jj's, but after so much qq they locked them to the pods, so now pretty much every timby jumps rather than those that actually want to.

people should be careful what they ask for. If your forced to bring equipment along and that equipment causes a bug you can't blame the player.

I honestly stopped playing mine after the locked jj's came around. kinda took away some of the variety to the mech in my opinion.

But yeah it is past time to fix it, till then it's wait for the hop and shoot on the landing I guess.