27 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior5152251]

I chased a jenner around for 3 minutes before I could kill it. Every time it broke LOS I lost lock even though I had active probe.

[Hotthedd]

He had radar deprivation module. That is what it is for.

I have no sympathy for a streakboat. If you want to avoid that problem, use aimed weapons.

[badaa]

get target decay and 360 target retention modules the only thing bap is good for is canceling ecm and a slight lock on speed increase

[Ovion]

Yeah, BAP is good at what it's there for, which is cancelling ECM, extending sensor range, increasing target info time and letting you target shut down mechs.

To clarify, in straight terms, the Beagle Active Probe does the following:
Increase Sensor Range by 25% (Distance you can lock on to mechs from)
Decrease Target Info Gathering time by 25% (Populate the Paper Doll with infomation on target)
Allows you to detect and lock on to Shut Down mechs within 120M
Negate the effects of 1 enemy Guardian ECM within 120M (I think, could be 160M atm)

You want it to stop ECM nullifying your Streak / LRM boats, and to let you target mechs that shut down (through overheating or ambush prep), but it won't let you hold a lock any longer, or gain a lock any faster.

[Xenon Codex]

BAP is not worthless, you are just confused about its purpose. It counters nearby ECM, decreases target info gathering time, and extends sensor range. That's 3 useful attributes in a 1.5t package. You can further decrease target gathering time and extend sensor range using modules and a Command Console. Try it sometime, pretty nice having detailed info near instantaneously.

But it primarily helps to counter ECM. A must for any dedicated LRM/SSRM mech as any ECM that gets near you will make those weapons useless.

In your example, it was Radar Deprivation that caused your problems. The Target Decay module will fully counter the Radar Dep module.

If you want to be an effective Streak boat, you'll need both BAP and Target Decay. Also upgrade to Artemis, as it decreases lock-on times for Streaks (without adding 1t per launcher!).

[luigi256]

Hmm OP is confused on what BAP does, fortunately it has already been answered.

Maybe PGI can create a manual of sorts that will let people know what equipment does, what modules do, how to turn arm lock on or off etc. It sure would cut down on people not knowing what they can and can't do with certain equipment. That is if they read it.

[Mcgral18]

MechWarrior5152251, on 22 February 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

I chased a jenner around for 3 minutes before I could kill it. Every time it broke LOS I lost lock even though I had active probe.

BAP doesn't affect lock retention?

Nor does it affect weapon lock time, just paperdoll info.

[Alistair Winter]

luigi256, on 22 February 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

Maybe PGI can create a manual of sorts that will let people know what equipment does, what modules do, how to turn arm lock on or off etc. It sure would cut down on people not knowing what they can and can't do with certain equipment. That is if they read it.

This. I don't think half the people who have played this game for a year really understand how all the different modules, weapons and equipment interact. Maybe even less than 10% really know the details.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 22 February 2015 - 04:17 PM.

[Ovion]

Alistair Winter, on 22 February 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

This. I don't think half the people who have played this game for a year really understand how all the different modules, weapons and equipment interact. Maybe even less than 10% really know the details.

I'm part of the 10%!

[MauttyKoray]

Hotthedd, on 22 February 2015 - 03:13 PM, said:

He had radar deprivation module. That is what it is for.

I have no sympathy for a streakboat. If you want to avoid that problem, use aimed weapons.

I still think Radar Dep is a bad module. It shouldn't instantly cut the target, it should reduce the time a target can be held on you (reduce the total time after the other player's numbers are factored in) instead which would create better gameplay. They wanted to kill jump sniping but added a module that promotes it...

[Khobai]

Radar Deprivation should not hard counter Target Decay module.

It should be a soft counter interaction. the bolded interaction is the one that should change.

you have nothing and enemy has nothing = 2 seconds until target loss
you have nothing and enemy has radar deprivation = 0 seconds until target loss (instant target loss)
you have target decay and enemy has radar deprivation = 1.5 seconds until target loss
you have target decay and enemy has nothing = 3.5 seconds until target loss

that would make target decay a useful module again.

Edited by Khobai, 22 February 2015 - 08:28 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

Khobai, on 22 February 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

Radar Deprivation should not hard counter Target Decay module.

It should be a soft counter interaction.

you have nothing and enemy has nothing = 2 seconds until target loss
you have nothing and enemy has radar deprivation = 0 seconds until target loss (instant target loss)
you have target decay and enemy has radar deprivation = 1.5 seconds until target loss
you have target decay and enemy has nothing = 3.5 seconds until target loss

that would make target decay a useful module again.

I feel a % reduction would be much simpler in execution and coding.

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 22 February 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

Radar Deprivation should not hard counter Target Decay module.

It should be a soft counter interaction. the bolded interaction is the one that should change.

you have nothing and enemy has nothing = 2 seconds until target loss
you have nothing and enemy has radar deprivation = 0 seconds until target loss (instant target loss)
you have target decay and enemy has radar deprivation = 1.5 seconds until target loss
you have target decay and enemy has nothing = 3.5 seconds until target loss

that would make target decay a useful module again.

Is that not how it already works?

[Khobai]

Quote

I feel a % reduction would be much simpler in execution and coding.

Maybe if thats how it had been done in the first place. But it wasnt. The easiest fix is just make it so radar deprivation doesnt hard counter target decay.

Quote

Is that not how it already works?

nope its not how it works

even if you have target decay module someone with radar deprivation instantly drops off your radar.

the radar deprivation module completely hard counters the target decay module.



On a side note I think it would also help make BAP more useful if it increased target decay time. Since one of the main abilities of BAP in tabletop is detecting enemies you dont have direct LoS to.

Edited by Khobai, 22 February 2015 - 08:40 PM.

[Lynx7725]

Tell that to the Raven pilot which tried to sneak up behind me. My BAP cancelled his ECM, allowing my teammate to target it and warn me on the map plot, which allowed me to turn around in time. And as the Raven tried to run away, the ECM cancellation meant I was able to lob 50 LRMs on it. Didn't kill it... but made it think twice about pulling that stunt again.

(Didn't help. He tried to do the same thing again later. Didn't work any better, once my teammates realised I've became light bait and just started hanging around to have free lunch.)

[El Bandito]

luigi256, on 22 February 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

Hmm OP is confused on what BAP does, fortunately it has already been answered.

Maybe PGI can create a manual of sorts that will let people know what equipment does, what modules do, how to turn arm lock on or off etc. It sure would cut down on people not knowing what they can and can't do with certain equipment. That is if they read it.

Not gonna happen. They do not even explain to the players WTF is Ghost Heat in game, and expect everyone to play along. One more reason why MWO will be hammered with bad reviews when it comes out on Steam--if PGI releases it as is.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 February 2015 - 09:40 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

BAP is like Frank's Red Hot sauce....I put that shite on everything.

[blood4blood]

Ted Wayz, on 22 February 2015 - 09:40 PM, said:

BAP is like Frank's Red Hot sauce....I put that shite on everything.

+1 to the Frank's. Everyone else already explained what's up with BAP. (OMG I just got an old pop rap song in my head..."You down with BAP? Yeah you know me!" ...ugh...)

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

BAP is not useless. It's a poor man's anti-ECM option, and it both boost sensor performance and lets you spot shut down hostiles close up.

However, it does need a buff. It should let you detect any contact, regardless of LoS, within about 90m.

[Kilo 40]

Radar dep is completely over powered and needs to go.