19 replies to this topic

[XX Sulla XX]

I was looking at the differences in the Cataphract and Grasshopper. The only difference I see is the Movement Archetype. At the moment the Grasshopper is Huge and Cataphract Medium. But they are said they are going to change Grasshopper tomorrow to large with the Victor and Gargoyle. My question is why would it not be Medium like the Cataphract since they are the exact same tonnage a full 10 tons less than the Victor and Gargoyle.

On the bright side it is nice to see the fix to the Victor and Gargoyle.

http://www.reddit.co...ing_hotfix_318/

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 18 March 2015 - 02:30 PM.

[FupDup]

The Hopper, Gargles, and Victor have an extra line of code in their .mdf files that overrides their Huge archetype's minimum climb angle. They get overridden to be 25.0 degrees instead of 20.0 degrees (which is what Huge types start out with).

[XX Sulla XX]

Nothing to do with my question. My question is why the Grassopper is not set being set to Medium like theCataphract. (that would be 30.0 degrees.) But it is instead is being set to lage like Victor. Is it arbitrary or supposed to be tonnage but wrong?

Is the problem with the Cataphract or with the Grasshopper or will they all just be set by how they happen to feel.

For that matter why is the Quikdraw and Catapult set to large? And why is JagerMech set to medium?

Tiny: Jenner, Commando, Spider
SlowdownAngle: 40°

Small: Raven, Cicada
SlowdownAngle: 35°

Medium: Blackjack, Centurion, Dragon, JagerMech, Trebuchet, Cataphract, Hunchback
SlowdownAngle: 30°

Large: Quickdraw, Stalker, Awesome, Catapult
SlowdownAngle: 25°

Huge: Atlas, Highlander, Victor
SlowdownAngle: 20°

http://mwomercs.com/...ement-behavior/

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 18 March 2015 - 02:43 PM.

[FupDup]

As for why the Hopper got set to where it is, that's because it's so effing tall. Movement types are currently assigned by a mech's physical height rather than their tonnage or battlefield role.

[XX Sulla XX]

FupDup please read the info in the first post. You are correct in that they were huge to start with because of height. That is being change on the 18th. But it is being change to large. http://www.reddit.co...ing_hotfix_318/ If you look at the other data you will see some heavies are large and some are set to medium and it has nothing to do with tonnage. So my question is how are they picking what to set Movement Archtype to for Heavies and other mechs.

[Corbenik]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 March 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

I was looking at the differences in the Cataphract and Grasshopper. The only difference I see is the Movement Archetype. At the moment the Grasshopper is Huge and Cataphract Medium. But they are said they are going to change Grasshopper tomorrow to large with the Victor and Gargoyle. My question is why would it not be Medium like the Cataphract since they are the exact same tonnage a full 10 tons less than the Victor and Gargoyle.

On the bright side it is nice to see the fix to the Victor and Gargoyle.

http://www.reddit.co...ing_hotfix_318/

didnt they change it today?

[XX Sulla XX]

Does no one read the post? It was huge and they changed it to large but the cataphract that is the same tonnage is medium. Heavy mechs are split between large and medium movement types and its not based on tonnage. Question is will this be changed later?

[FupDup]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 March 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

FupDup please read the info in the first post. You are correct in that they were huge to start with because of height. That is being change on the 18th. But it is being change to large. http://www.reddit.co...ing_hotfix_318/ If you look at the other data you will see some heavies are large and some are set to medium and it has nothing to do with tonnage. So my question is how are they picking what to set Movement Archtype to for Heavies and other mechs.

The Grasshopper isn't set to Large right now. The Grasshopper isn't going to ever be "truly" set to Large because Large mechs have a smaller collision pill surrounding them. The collision pill/capsule has to be similar in size to the mech's actual size or else you've got a mech that visibly ghosts through objects.

The hotfix to override their climb angle is all we're going to get.



This is how it looks right now after the hotfix was implemented. This is how it's going to stay.

They probably chose to set the override to 25 instead of 30 because Large is the "status quo" for heavies.

Edited by FupDup, 18 March 2015 - 02:56 PM.

[Ultimax]

Sulla, heavy mechs that are medium are outliers. (they are the short ones)

The CTF is a shadow of it's former self and only ONE CTF has JJs.


So leave it be is my opinion.


The only thing that the capsule does is dictate movement OVER TERRAIN, it has nothing to do with the mech's agility - that is based on engine and the mech itself.

The GRH has JJs to mitigate what is the typical collision box for most heavy mechs, now that it's no longer the ridiculous "HUGE" type - its fine.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 18 March 2015 - 03:03 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

I UNDERSTAND that. My question is about the movement type > climb angle. Heavies are partly set to 30 and partly set to 25. Are they going to go back and change ALL heavies to 25? Are they going to stay random like they are now not based on tonnage? Are they going to make all heavies 30? Trying to figure out how they are going to setup heavies will there be any logic to it

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

The only thing that the capsule does is dictate movement OVER TERRAIN, it has nothing to do with the mech's agility - that is based on engine and the mech itself.

I think it effectively does though because of the unevenness of the ground. Example with my Victor set to huge many times I would turn or jump and turn and hit a short spot that had a bit more of a slope than 20. That would stop me dead in my tracks. Or when running and turning and hitting a small hill/bump that is just big enough to stop you in your tracks because its 25 instead of 20.

Any way not 100% sure of they should all be large or medium or a mix based on something but would like to know how they are making the choice.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 18 March 2015 - 03:06 PM.

[Ultimax]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 March 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

I UNDERSTAND that. My question is about the movement type > climb angle. Heavies are partly set to 30 and partly set to 25. Are they going to go back and change ALL heavies to 25? Are they going to stay random like they are now not based on tonnage? Are they going to make all heavies 30? Trying to figure out how they are going to setup heavies will there be any logic to it

No one knows really, they might review it at some point, but the capusle is based on height.

[HARDKOR]

No.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

No one knows really, they might review it at some point, but the capusle is based on height.

Exactly why I was asking about it. Maybe they will go back and set all heavies to large but just have not done it yet because of not having the time yet?

[Davers]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 March 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

Are they going to go back and change ALL heavies to 25?

No.

XX Sulla XX, on 18 March 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

Are they going to stay random like they are now not based on tonnage?

Yes.

XX Sulla XX, on 18 March 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

Are they going to make all heavies 30?

No.

[XX Sulla XX]

Davers source or are you just pulling that out of thin air?

[Davers]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 March 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

Davers source or are you just pulling that out of thin air?

Out of the air, mostly.

Now that PGI has desynched mech height from it's movement type, anything is possible. But I don't think they are going to go through and change everything.

[XX Sulla XX]

Well at the very least glad they have desynced movement type now

[Gas Guzzler]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 March 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

FupDup please read the info in the first post. You are correct in that they were huge to start with because of height. That is being change on the 18th. But it is being change to large. http://www.reddit.co...ing_hotfix_318/ If you look at the other data you will see some heavies are large and some are set to medium and it has nothing to do with tonnage. So my question is how are they picking what to set Movement Archtype to for Heavies and other mechs.

They are not changing the archetype to large, they are only overriding the "huge" hill climb ability to resemble that of a "large" archetype. The reason it is not medium like a Cataphract is probably because its so tall.

Mass is one thing, moment of inertia is related to both mass and geometry. Its like waving around two sticks that each way 10 lbs. One is 12 inches long, the other is 12 feet long, which is going to be easier to control and move around. That is my hunch.

[XX Sulla XX]

Except the Grasshopper would be easier to turn since it is thinner. Although it might be harder to keep from falling over if in real life haha.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 18 March 2015 - 04:22 PM.