35 replies to this topic

[Havyek]

The more I've dropped in CW (when not running with at least a 6 man) the more I see these PUG-centric 'Mechs. RVN3L with 2 erLLAS, Atlas DDC with LRMs etc etc.

These may be decent builds for PUG matches where you hide off by yourself and plunk away, but these have no place in CW.

If you're running ECM, you should be with a larger group protecting them from LRMs. If you're in an Atlas, you should be driving the spike into the enemy charge.

People like to ***** and whine about Clans are OP/IS lights are OP blah blah blah. Take a 'Mech that will actually contribute to your team's efforts and I'm sure your CW experience will improve.

[Necromantion]

You have a very valid point and this is the exact mentality that seems to permeate the community right now.

People dont know how to optimize builds around quirks.
People dont know how to utilize their builds in regards to altering their playstyle.
People dont understand the roles their builds and mechs are intended for.

To be fair gaming has changed a lot over the last decade and a half or so, im 27 and can say that people who were gamers back when I started playing online a lot were willing to take the time to get better, read up on things, talk to and listen to others who could teach them something. Now people want to be able to log into a game and be able to solo everything with no teamwork and have instant gratification.

Frankly there is minimal disparity between IS and Clans and every time I see an IS player crying about clans being massively OP I cant help but laugh and know that that player is probably pugging only or just terrible, or a combination of both.

Keep up the martyring Havyek, you are spot on.

[HARDKOR]

x2

[AlmightyAeng]

Taking a Raven 3L with 2 ERLL is a good thing. Taking one with any other build gimps them from competing at range with clan mechs if they're staying with the fat boys like they should be, providing ECM.

Also, taking ANY Atlas, much less one with LRM's, is tonnage that's better spent on another IS mech of equivalent tonnage or a lighter assault and something else.

[Helsbane]

Not so long ago, a friend and I were on Teamspeak with a new guy, fielding his questions about builds, tactics, etc. We told him, several times in fact, that the reason we put up the numbers we do, and last as long in the game, is simply due to the years we've spent playing, practicing, and honing the required skills. Grinding to attain the number of mechs, modules, equipment, etc. so that we can be flexible enough to bring what the team needs. Experienced enough to know when we're overstepping our role or stopping short of doing something our gut is telling us not to do.

All we kept getting in return from the new guy was, "Well, I don't want to put that kind of time in. I just want to be able to play effectively against the top level teams."

When we reiterated that the only way for him to do so WAS to put the requisite time in, to hone the skills, to attain the diversity of mechs, to understand what was going to happen and why out on the field, he just balked at spending that kind of time, complaining that he should be able to simply wander into a game and be top-end, facing the likes of Lords, NKVA (yes, I respect your skill, but shut up a little, will ya? ), Steel Jag, etc. Eventually we just told him to leave the channel.

In short, some guys do not, and will not, get it through their thick...... no, scratch that, solid from front to back skull, no matter how many ways you explain it to them or show them in game. You will drown those particular horses before you save them from dying of thirst at their own hand. Best thing I've found to do with them is to let them wander off, where they will be a lead weight around the neck of another team.

[Egomane]

Here is another advice:
This is a game! Relax!

Play with whatever you want and don't let others try to dictate your playstyle, just because they don't agree with yours.

[Strykewolf]

Ummmmm...yeah, no.

While the builds can help, I'd prefer they run what they like to play and, are comfortable with. If you, personally, do not like it; stay out of the pug matches and/or don't group with us who are there to have fun. <<shrugs>>

[Necromantion]

Helsbane, on 24 February 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

Not so long ago, a friend and I were on Teamspeak with a new guy, fielding his questions about builds, tactics, etc. We told him, several times in fact, that the reason we put up the numbers we do, and last as long in the game, is simply due to the years we've spent playing, practicing, and honing the required skills. Grinding to attain the number of mechs, modules, equipment, etc. so that we can be flexible enough to bring what the team needs. Experienced enough to know when we're overstepping our role or stopping short of doing something our gut is telling us not to do.

All we kept getting in return from the new guy was, "Well, I don't want to put that kind of time in. I just want to be able to play effectively against the top level teams."

When we reiterated that the only way for him to do so WAS to put the requisite time in, to hone the skills, to attain the diversity of mechs, to understand what was going to happen and why out on the field, he just balked at spending that kind of time, complaining that he should be able to simply wander into a game and be top-end, facing the likes of Lords, NKVA (yes, I respect your skill, but shut up a little, will ya? ), Steel Jag, etc. Eventually we just told him to leave the channel.

In short, some guys do not, and will not, get it through their thick...... no, scratch that, solid from front to back skull, no matter how many ways you explain it to them or show them in game. You will drown those particular horses before you save them from dying of thirst at their own hand. Best thing I've found to do with them is to let them wander off, where they will be a lead weight around the neck of another team.

This is the mentality of the majority of players in gaming now, ever since consoles began to gain popularity and gaming went from cult to mainstream if you will, this is what has happened. Its the COD mentality if I may use that expression, heck its the modern day culture mentality, gimme gimme now now no effort all gain.

Well put Helsbane!

Frankly to people like that in game and out of game I have one thing to say:

[redacted]

Egomane, on 24 February 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

Here is another advice:
This is a game! Relax!

Play with whatever you want and don't let others try to dictate your playstyle, just because they don't agree with yours.

That is a fair thing to say but the aforementioned context above permeates a lot of this game and peoples "issues" players do awful and dont even care to try to improve, they run into the wall over and over then finally fall down and say screw it im done playing. This game is not as simple as point and shoot and people dont seem to get that.

"A thinking person's shooter" Is honestly one of the most bang on (no pun intended) descriptions for this game and any game ever really.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 24 February 2015 - 06:14 PM.
Unconstructive

[Vlad Ward]

Helsbane, on 24 February 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

Not so long ago, a friend and I were on Teamspeak with a new guy, fielding his questions about builds, tactics, etc. We told him, several times in fact, that the reason we put up the numbers we do, and last as long in the game, is simply due to the years we've spent playing, practicing, and honing the required skills. Grinding to attain the number of mechs, modules, equipment, etc. so that we can be flexible enough to bring what the team needs. Experienced enough to know when we're overstepping our role or stopping short of doing something our gut is telling us not to do.

All we kept getting in return from the new guy was, "Well, I don't want to put that kind of time in. I just want to be able to play effectively against the top level teams."

When we reiterated that the only way for him to do so WAS to put the requisite time in, to hone the skills, to attain the diversity of mechs, to understand what was going to happen and why out on the field, he just balked at spending that kind of time, complaining that he should be able to simply wander into a game and be top-end, facing the likes of Lords, NKVA (yes, I respect your skill, but shut up a little, will ya? ), Steel Jag, etc. Eventually we just told him to leave the channel.

In short, some guys do not, and will not, get it through their thick...... no, scratch that, solid from front to back skull, no matter how many ways you explain it to them or show them in game. You will drown those particular horses before you save them from dying of thirst at their own hand. Best thing I've found to do with them is to let them wander off, where they will be a lead weight around the neck of another team.

You realize NKVA are brand new players, right? As in, started the game in like January? Many of them still drop in Trial mechs.

Maybe you should ask them for some tips.

edit: This game's not hard. It's not all that complicated. Often times I've found that years of experience have only served to cement some of the worst bad habits into some players.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 24 February 2015 - 01:35 PM.

[Egomane]

Necromantion, on 24 February 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

This is the mentality of the majority of players in gaming now, ever since consoles began to gain popularity and gaming went from cult to mainstream if you will, this is what has happened. Its the COD mentality if I may use that expression, heck its the modern day culture mentality, gimme gimme now now no effort all gain.

Well put Helsbane!

Frankly to people like that in game and out of game I have one thing to say:
That is a fair thing to say but the aforementioned context above permeates a lot of this game and peoples "issues" players do awful and dont even care to try to improve, they run into the wall over and over then finally fall down and say screw it im done playing. This game is not as simple as point and shoot and people dont seem to get that.

"A thinking person's shooter" Is honestly one of the most bang on (no pun intended) descriptions for this game and any game ever really.

While yes, there are players like that who want everything on the silver platter, they are not even close of being the majority of the casual players. Most of them are simply playing to play a game.

And everyone should have his place in MWO. Even in community warfare.

Threads like this one are a prime example of the angst of the competetive crowd to have to share their playing field with us casuals. It's intended to drive us away or to make us see the game the same way the competetive players do. In the OP and even more so in the thread title there can be found nothing inbetween.

Edited by Egomane, 24 February 2015 - 01:45 PM.

[Necromantion]

Egomane, on 24 February 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

While yes, there are players like that who want everything on the silver platter, they are not even close of being the majority of the casual players. Most of them are simply playing to play a game.

And everyone should have his place in MWO. Even in community warfare.

Threads like this one are a prime example of the angst of the competetive crowd to have to share their playing field with us casuals. It's intended to drive us away or to make us see the game the same way the competetive players do. In the OP and even more so in the thread title there can be found nothing inbetween.

Once again anything I ever say does have the understanding behind it that when I say most, or some that would imply that obviously the whole population isnt being covered by that statement. Just like any demographic, there is never one that covers all players.

However the silver platter, instant gratification mentality is something that permeates a lot of peoples approach to a lot of things because greed is an inherent human trait. Some people have the morals and self control to not let it control them, others not so much.

I think that some parts of this game are too grindy and others not enough. But hey thats just me.

[wanderer]

Don't expect players who didn't learn in public queue to learn in CW queues- they'll play the same way and die the same way.

And I beg to differ on an Atlas D-DC leading a charge. He should be coming in right behind the heavies, screening ahead of himself with ECM and putting the hurt down on anything he sees that was savaged by the initial push. He's too slow to clear the first lane and will, in CW often end up jamming things up and disabled in short order.

I -love- seeing the Atlas in front. He's slow, we get clean shots at him, the ECM drops instantly on the first PPCs hitting, and the rain comes down on the rest.

[Caustic Canid]

I strive to be the best I can be, with the mechs I like, and accept that not using meta builds is a handicap.

I know that I will probably never be top tier, or even top 10%, but at least I do all I can with what I have and don't whine when I get beat by a better player.

That's not to say I don't think there are some (small) balance issues (in both clan and IS), but this is a game and they come with the territory.

Given enough practice and a reasonable amount of commitment (playing more than an hour per week), people should be able to contribute and feel accomplished using any mech or build they choose.

[Davers]

Helsbane, on 24 February 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

Not so long ago, a friend and I were on Teamspeak with a new guy, fielding his questions about builds, tactics, etc. We told him, several times in fact, that the reason we put up the numbers we do, and last as long in the game, is simply due to the years we've spent playing, practicing, and honing the required skills. Grinding to attain the number of mechs, modules, equipment, etc. so that we can be flexible enough to bring what the team needs. Experienced enough to know when we're overstepping our role or stopping short of doing something our gut is telling us not to do.

All we kept getting in return from the new guy was, "Well, I don't want to put that kind of time in. I just want to be able to play effectively against the top level teams."

When we reiterated that the only way for him to do so WAS to put the requisite time in, to hone the skills, to attain the diversity of mechs, to understand what was going to happen and why out on the field, he just balked at spending that kind of time, complaining that he should be able to simply wander into a game and be top-end, facing the likes of Lords, NKVA (yes, I respect your skill, but shut up a little, will ya? ), Steel Jag, etc. Eventually we just told him to leave the channel.

In short, some guys do not, and will not, get it through their thick...... no, scratch that, solid from front to back skull, no matter how many ways you explain it to them or show them in game. You will drown those particular horses before you save them from dying of thirst at their own hand. Best thing I've found to do with them is to let them wander off, where they will be a lead weight around the neck of another team.

"If I can't beat the game in 15-20 hours, the game is broken!"

Egomane, on 24 February 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

Here is another advice:
This is a game! Relax!

Play with whatever you want and don't let others try to dictate your playstyle, just because they don't agree with yours.

Well, that is true to an extent. I can play a Support character Top Lane in LoL, and I can beat bad players with it. But that doesn't mean it is a good Top Lane pick. And CW is like a Ranked game. You bring your best and you expect your team and your opponents to do the same.

[ExplodedZombie]

An Atlas with LRMs is not as bad as you'd think. Hang with another LRM boat and provide ECM...rain with pain then brawl when they get close. LRMs are very viable in CW with the right support. One of our guildmates tears it up bad with it. It's surprising, honestly. I always hated them, too. Hell, he rocks a crab with LRMs like nobody's business (also something I would never do).

[Monkey Lover]

I been happy with my ddc with ac20 2med and lrms. Been a good rounded mech when we're doing pushes.

ecm Raven with 2 er lasers on defense works well too...

If you come over to the marik TS you can run anything you want,we have fun and win.

[Havyek]

I think people are getting me wrong about what my point is.

I think people should bring whatever 'Mech that they want, BUT THEY NEED TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE TEAM EFFORT.

That means NOT taking a RVN3L with erLLAS and hiding in a corner to snipe. That means NOT bringing an Atlas DDC and hiding in the back with a LRM20, AC20 and MLAS.

Bring whatever you like to run, but FFS play as and with the team. It should be the same in open queue, but it is 10x more important in CW.

[Kjudoon]

Egomane, on 24 February 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

Here is another advice:
This is a game! Relax!

Play with whatever you want and don't let others try to dictate your playstyle, just because they don't agree with yours.

Unless it involves hiding, being sneaky, boring to spectate, or refusing to present yourself for execution by ritalin jones-ing joystick junkies. Then you are to be banned. [/sarcasm]

[riverslq]

mix max or get out?
thats exactly whats ruining the fun of game
then again, if outright slaughter is fun for you, more power to you i guess

[Gyrok]

riverslq, on 24 February 2015 - 06:29 PM, said:

mix max or get out?
thats exactly whats ruining the fun of game
then again, if outright slaughter is fun for you, more power to you i guess

Why is it that so many people think acquiring skill cannot be fun?

Working to improve cannot possibly be fun?

The same people think derping around in a bad build for lulz and running into a wall or shooting regular SRMs at a light 450m away is fun?

Do those same people work dead end jobs, show up late, and make excuses about why they cannot pay their mortgage? Just curious, as the apathy would seem to go hand in hand if it carries over into gaming...(not a jab, honestly asking...)