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Proposition To Marik From Liao


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#21 Tasker

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 10:31 AM

Think as we discover with Marik wormhole that it very unlikely to get favorable corridor to reach clans. However, as others say, could be interesting experiment for beta to try again.

#22 Stingr4y

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 10:34 AM

View PostCrockdaddyAoD, on 26 February 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

I kinda like this experiment.


Just to be clear, when I say fun battles with Liao, I mean as in arranged fun ... not angry forum stomping type of fun.


Amen.

#23 Gonta

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:25 AM

View PostRoadbeer, on 26 February 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

So you get to DC space, what then? Are they going to give you an avenue north to the Clans? Because that worked out so well for us.

Yes, I hope do get corridor into clan space

#24 wanderer

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:30 AM

Quote

wrangle Liao warriors who only want to solo drop vs ghost turrets.


We simply want to take Davion worlds until there's none left. If it requires taking empty worlds until they have nowhere to run, so be it. I don't want much.

Lining up every Davion heir and orbital dropping them without a pod into the atmosphere of New Avalon would suffice, but since we can't have that and Davion prefers to die against Marik or Kuritan units, we shoot turrets and occupy empty bases.

If we were allowed to drop in support of Marik and Kurita attacks on Davion worlds where they actually have troops, we'd do that instead. But I don't give up my citizenship in the Confederation for the sake of boredom relief. If smaller, more fragmentary groups of Capellan troops are interested in getting Davion planets while our larger units are taking on the Clans, we're both doing the Chancellor's work. Given the nature of Clan defenses, it's likely for the better for both.

#25 Stoneblade

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:32 AM

The Problem with the "Send your 12 man to defend X,X,X" Is the way the Algarithm works. If PGI would Allow IS units to help attack, then it would help too. Say a Liao unit helps DC attck SMJ, then DC gets the planet. But until PGI allows that, its hard to help defend. Like last night for example: of the 6 non Liao planets that we could help defend, only 2 were being attacked, yet only 1 other Liao team was online. The Algorithm doesn't make this functional for Liao Loyalist.

Since the Faction Group link has happened, every faction group I was invited to (Where the group leader was not HLGK) refused to drop against Clans. The groups I started, fought against clans; then all the pilots left when I refused to attack Davion as per the nSL agreement. So, I for one don't see TCAF as the "political Leader" of the Liao Faction. I would feel better about all their planet wins if there was a EoR screenshot for each victory. Being on the NA time zone, I see less Davions online in CW during the peak EU and RU windows. Hopefully you can see where I come from on this: for the first two months it was all Davion numbers and loss of planets because of the SINGLE ceasefire window; Now we are getting TCAF tags on many planets because of the Ceasefire windows.


I see no reason to not have Friendly, not treaty Violation fights on planets Coreward and Anit-Spinward(there is no North in space) of Sian with House Marik. Coreward and Spinward of Sian mostly held by Davion. But the whole Idea of House Liao opening up a Lane with the Clans won't work: too many temporary contract (Merc Contracts) to make this work.




edit: spelling and word flow

Edited by Stoneblade, 26 February 2015 - 11:34 AM.


#26 Stingr4y

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:41 AM

And again, there needs to be some activity on capping planets for the algorithm to adjust. Since the NAP with Liao/Marik, the alrogrithm is a bit stagnant. If we agree to work on this, I am sure we can adjust the attack fronts to the northern planets.

A few things against us on this:
- Algorithm is still unpredictable (unreliable at best)
- There might not be enough time to get Liao up north.......but.....like others have stated.....it will be a fun experiment.

Good feedback so far.

#27 wanderer

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 12:40 PM

Quote

when I refused to attack Davion as per the nSL agreement


Marik has been cheerfully attacking Davion worlds. Is there some arcane code that says we cannot?

#28 BlackhawkSC

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 12:42 PM

Um, so the thread title is a little misleading.

It really should be "Proposal to Marik from TCAF". From what I can tell, the desire to open an attack lane into clan space is really being prioritized only by TCAF because of the lack of competition during their primetime. In the NA timezone however, you will see HLGK, the Warrior Houses and 4TCR dropping when we can on the Davion border.

The question I'd ask Gonta would be why not just defend against clans in FRR or DC space? It gives you the competition you're looking for. I love seeing TCAF tag Dav planets every day, but if you're bored of it, you can leave it up to the NA teams.

#29 Thorn Hallis

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 01:30 PM

As long as our relationship with both Marik and Kurita does not suffer from this, I'm all up for it.

#30 Stingr4y

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 01:55 PM

View PostBlackhawkSC, on 26 February 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

Um, so the thread title is a little misleading.

It really should be "Proposal to Marik from TCAF". From what I can tell, the desire to open an attack lane into clan space is really being prioritized only by TCAF because of the lack of competition during their primetime. In the NA timezone however, you will see HLGK, the Warrior Houses and 4TCR dropping when we can on the Davion border.

The question I'd ask Gonta would be why not just defend against clans in FRR or DC space? It gives you the competition you're looking for. I love seeing TCAF tag Dav planets every day, but if you're bored of it, you can leave it up to the NA teams.


Yes, this is true to a point, but there is really no big reward with just defending against clans within another faction's border. Yes, you get the challenge, and yes, the relationships will grow, but sometimes a community of players and units want to see something more than a 0 net gain with a passionate fight.

The one thing that most of us (in FWLM) want to do is make sure that IF Liao wants to work up through Marik for a northern lane, we want to make sure that:
- There shouldn't be too many ghost drops since we are sure you are sick of them
- The fights should be good for your community, yet make sure Liao can make progress.

The details will need to be ironed out.

#31 Gorgo7

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 02:13 PM

Question and request for Gonta:

Sir,
Please adjust your opening statement to show the unit you represent and/or the backing of said unit.

I don't know you.

Gorgo7,
2nd Lieutenant, Mechwarrior
4TCR,
CCAF

Long Live the Chancellor.

#32 Musashi Alexander

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 02:18 PM

I think one of the main lessons to learn from CW Beta is that there needs to be some route for southern houses to participate more directly against clans other than dropping in defense on behalf of northern houses. Maybe something like once a week an invasion event happens whereby a southern house can assault a clan planet and if they win, they keep that planet (for as long as they can) or expand if they can). Maybe these windows open up after a set period of time (a month? two months?)

I think something like this will be necessary. I don't think all Inter-IS war should be ended, by no means, but this added complexity would be for the better of all players - particularly house loyalist units in southern houses. (I also think the reward system for permanent contract units should be tweaked considerably in favour of these players, but that's another issue I suppose.)

#33 BlackhawkSC

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 02:18 PM

To clarify something, does defending not allow a unit to tag planets? Meaning if the planet was "successfully defended", ie, not flipped, the unit with the most points on the defense get it tagged? If that was possible, then units can get net-gains through defense?

#34 Stoneblade

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 02:42 PM

View Postwanderer, on 26 February 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

Marik has been cheerfully attacking Davion worlds. Is there some arcane code that says we cannot?


It was about showing "faith" that we could do this. Since you have no Unit alliance, please continue to do what you feel is "Right" to you.

View PostBlackhawkSC, on 26 February 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

To clarify something, does defending not allow a unit to tag planets? Meaning if the planet was "successfully defended", ie, not flipped, the unit with the most points on the defense get it tagged? If that was possible, then units can get net-gains through defense?


True, but the rep is on ATTACKING units, not defense units as attacking is harder then defending.

#35 wanderer

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 04:34 PM

Quote

It was about showing "faith" that we could do this. Since you have no Unit alliance, please continue to do what you feel is "Right" to you.


It's not just randoms. Those worlds are very much getting taken and tagged by House regulars.

Is this not the same with Mark taking 8 worlds in the past 7 days? It "feels" like the ceasefire is really not universal, especially since Liao has changed hands twice (from Davion to Marik, back to Davion, and then to Marik again). We're hitting these planets with pretty much every unit- and from what I was getting, that included Gatekeepers troops.

Given that, the idea that there was a ceasefire seems strange. Marik is taking a world or more every day, and we just periodically swallow up one ourselves, while Davion seems to be at least attacking Marik right back.

http://www.reddit.co..._battle_report/
Free Worlds League takes Liao from The Federated Suns!
The Federated Suns takes Aldebaran from Free Worlds League!
Capellan Confederation takes Kaifeng from The Federated Suns!

#36 LightTreason

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 10:23 PM

If you want to fight clans, take out a contract with a northern house. Anything else is just a bad idea with good intentions or a facade to help your faction gain planets while disguising bad intentions. Plus, you can't trust the algorithm to actually create a path the direction you need to go. If you're sick of playing defense and sick of ghost dropping, the answer is easy: join a faction with an IS border. I don't care if it's Kurita or not. Join FRR or Steiner and fight the real fight.

#37 Davers

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:18 PM

View PostLightTreason, on 26 February 2015 - 10:23 PM, said:

If you want to fight clans, take out a contract with a northern house. Anything else is just a bad idea with good intentions or a facade to help your faction gain planets while disguising bad intentions. Plus, you can't trust the algorithm to actually create a path the direction you need to go. If you're sick of playing defense and sick of ghost dropping, the answer is easy: join a faction with an IS border. I don't care if it's Kurita or not. Join FRR or Steiner and fight the real fight.

If we were really defending the IS from invaders, then yes. But they are just another faction with a different starting position. Trying to break the algorithim as many ways as we can might be better testing for Beta. Unless you want Paul to handpick attack lanes forever? ;)

#38 Gonta

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:19 PM

View PostBlackhawkSC, on 26 February 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

Um, so the thread title is a little misleading.

It really should be "Proposal to Marik from TCAF". From what I can tell, the desire to open an attack lane into clan space is really being prioritized only by TCAF because of the lack of competition during their primetime. In the NA timezone however, you will see HLGK, the Warrior Houses and 4TCR dropping when we can on the Davion border.

The question I'd ask Gonta would be why not just defend against clans in FRR or DC space? It gives you the competition you're looking for. I love seeing TCAF tag Dav planets every day, but if you're bored of it, you can leave it up to the NA teams.

Your words hurt me. It seems for you that TCAF isn't a par of Liao? I have asked all Liaosits in neighbour topic about this idea, and haven't recieved any protest.
TCAF takes planets in EU prime-time, and sometimes in Asian prime-time. In NA window we are sleeping, and can't prevent you to capture planets.
We defend FRR and DC every day, we have also special Hardcore Dropship with strictyl demands for players to fight against clans, but we have no planet when defend finished.
Because of that i have proposed this idea about northern coridor, its a point and a goal for all our community.

#39 Gonta

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:28 PM

View PostLightTreason, on 26 February 2015 - 10:23 PM, said:

If you want to fight clans, take out a contract with a northern house. Anything else is just a bad idea with good intentions or a facade to help your faction gain planets while disguising bad intentions. Plus, you can't trust the algorithm to actually create a path the direction you need to go. If you're sick of playing defense and sick of ghost dropping, the answer is easy: join a faction with an IS border. I don't care if it's Kurita or not. Join FRR or Steiner and fight the real fight.

You are right, but we just want to try make this corridor, if it will not work then we will continue just to capture Davion palents and waiting for PGi to make another mechanic to choose palnets for atack.
And we have spend a lot of force to be Liao then to go for another faction.

View PostGorgo7, on 26 February 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

Question and request for Gonta:

Sir,
Please adjust your opening statement to show the unit you represent and/or the backing of said unit.

I don't know you.

Gorgo7,
2nd Lieutenant, Mechwarrior
4TCR,
CCAF

Long Live the Chancellor.

Nice to meet you.
You can see my signature under the message, its about me.

#40 BlackhawkSC

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 12:28 AM

View PostGonta, on 26 February 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:

Your words hurt me. It seems for you that TCAF isn't a par of Liao? I have asked all Liaosits in neighbour topic about this idea, and haven't recieved any protest.
TCAF takes planets in EU prime-time, and sometimes in Asian prime-time. In NA window we are sleeping, and can't prevent you to capture planets.
We defend FRR and DC every day, we have also special Hardcore Dropship with strictyl demands for players to fight against clans, but we have no planet when defend finished.
Because of that i have proposed this idea about northern coridor, its a point and a goal for all our community.


I think you're misreading. I'm saying that I haven't heard of this proposal within my unit or in others, so it might be incorrect to say that it's a "Liao" proposal. Then again I'm not the most informed player. If this has been discussed between the major unit leaders, then maybe it'd be a faction wide proposal.

My other point is that if you truly wanted to fight clans then defense on the clan border would also allow you to do that without going through Marik space.

Anyways, I hold the highest respect for TCAF and I just wanted to suggest alternatives.





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