17 replies to this topic

[Ikarus Sharvas]

Hi,

So, i wanted to switch from double heat sinks to standard and see how it works, but all upgrades are in red color and nothing can be done. Want to be sure, is it permanantly disabled or am i missing something?

If it is permanently disabled then its a huge dissapointment, because that makes clan mechs very limited to what you can actually do with them...

[Dan Baxter]

Upgrades are locked for clan mechs. That means that you cannot change armor type, structure type, or the type of heatsinks (though I don't think clans have single heat sinks). To be fair though, more often than not double heatsinks are the better option on any battlemechs, clan or otherwise.

[MalodorousMonkey]

The only upgrades that you can change on a clan mech is whether or not it has artemis. It was a balance decision made by the devs when they first introduced the clans. That being said, double heats sinks are superior in 99% of cases. Most clan mechs come with double heat sinks and XL engines (Which are defnitely superior to standard engines for the clans since you can lose a side torso without dying.)

Changing the default would likely only make the mech worse.

[Ikarus Sharvas]

I see, thanks for clarifying this. The thing is why i was wondering about standard heat sinks is that double heat sinks are only 40% better, but take double space. Neglecting tha mass problems havind 2x standard heat sinks should give better heat efficiency than 1x double

Edit:

Also, on the same topic. Changing omnipods seems a very "odd" decision made by PGI. For example, i have strormcrow prime, why should someone buy another mech (stormcrow D variant for exmaple), if you can change omnipods on PRIME variand and make it a D variant. (ignoring the ability to research mech skills ofc)

Edited by Ikarus Sharvas, 27 February 2015 - 10:29 AM.

[SnagaDance]

Ikarus Sharvas, on 27 February 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

I see, thanks for clarifying this. The thing is why i was wondering about standard heat sinks is that double heat sinks are only 40% better, but take double space. Neglecting tha mass problems havind 2x standard heat sinks should give better heat efficiency than 1x double

True, but the engine also contains heatsinks. 10 of them within any engine rated 250 or higher. These within the engine actually do function at double efficiency and this gives a huge boost. For every 25 engine rating above 25 (275, 300 etc) you'll also be able to slot a heatsink in the engine space, only taking tonnage but no crit slots. These additional sinks function at 1.4 efficiency like the rest of the externals though.

[DemonicDonut]

Also have to remember that internal engine heat sinks (the first ten) do give a true double bonus. so right off the bat you would need +10 single HS to match the cooling. Essentially three singles for 2 double after that.

Edited by DemonicDonut, 27 February 2015 - 10:36 AM.

[Ikarus Sharvas]

SnagaDance, on 27 February 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

True, but the engine also contains heatsinks. 10 of them within any engine rated 250 or higher. These within the engine actually do function at double efficiency and this gives a huge boost. For every 25 engine rating above 25 (275, 300 etc) you'll also be able to slot a heatsink in the engine space, only taking tonnage but no crit slots. These additional sinks function at 1.4 efficiency like the rest of the externals though.

But for example some clan mech dont have engine heat sink slots and option to change engine is also disabled

[Dan Baxter]

Ikarus Sharvas, on 27 February 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

But for example some clan mech dont have engine heat sink slots and option to change engine is also disabled

You cannot change clan engines, those are specific to the omnimech you purchased. It also appears that in some cases, the heatsinks in clan engines are hardwired in as well.

Despite this, you can purchase various omnipods for customization (which have various hardpoints).

[Koniving]

Ikarus Sharvas, on 27 February 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

Hi,

So, i wanted to switch from double heat sinks to standard and see how it works, but all upgrades are in red color and nothing can be done. Want to be sure, is it permanantly disabled or am i missing something?

If it is permanently disabled then its a huge dissapointment, because that makes clan mechs very limited to what you can actually do with them...

Omnimechs are locked like that.
This is true for both IS and Clan omnimechs (as of yet IS ones are not available). There are lore-based reasons for it.

Battlemechs, both IS and Clan, will be able to change everything. This is actually against lore, as PGI is using Construction (make your own mech) Rules for the IS/Clan Battlemechs and (Omnimech) Customization Rules for the Omnimechs.

I wish PGI kept it consistent, because half the 'meta builds' right now wouldn't exist for the IS Battlemechs if we had the (Battlemech) Customization Rules... we also likely wouldn't have ghost heat either. Or problems getting MASC installed into the game.

[Ikarus Sharvas]

Koniving, on 27 February 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

Omnimechs are locked like that.
This is true for both IS and Clan omnimechs (as of yet IS ones are not available). There are lore-based reasons for it.

Battlemechs, both IS and Clan, will be able to change everything. This is actually against lore, as PGI is using Construction (make your own mech) Rules for the IS/Clan Battlemechs and (Omnimech) Customization Rules for the Omnimechs.

I wish PGI kept it consistent, because half the 'meta builds' right now wouldn't exist for the IS Battlemechs if we had the (Battlemech) Customization Rules... we also likely wouldn't have ghost heat either. Or problems getting MASC installed into the game.

If i am not mistaken all omnimechs have an option to change omnipods, but can't change upgrades and some equipment. Question is, all clan mechs curently in game are omnimechs? If yes, are there any plans to introduce clan battlemechs?

[Koniving]

Ikarus Sharvas, on 27 February 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

If i am not mistaken all omnimechs have an option to change omnipods, but can't change upgrades and some equipment. Question is, all clan mechs curently in game are omnimechs? If yes, are there any plans to introduce clan battlemechs?

Yes all in-game Clan mechs are Omnimechs (their Battlemechs don't start showing up until Clan resources get drained a bit), and yes, PGI has plans to introduce Clan Battlemechs and IS Omnimechs (2016 at the earliest but probably later than that).

The Clan Battlemechs will have locked hardpoints, but can change other aspects. I'm certain PGI might put some limits on it, as you're bound to see some pretty nutty builds if they don't. Heatsinks, structure and armor are definitely among the things you're supposed to be able to change on Battlemechs per PGI's rules.

Another interesting thing is not long from now, the IS develops Light Engines.

A "Light Engine", while not as light as the Extra Light (XL) engine, is one that compares in survivability to the Clan XL (meaning an IS mech with the LE can survive losing one side torso like the Clan mechs are doing).

Edited by Koniving, 27 February 2015 - 11:29 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Ikarus Sharvas, on 27 February 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

(ignoring the ability to research mech skills ofc)

That's really the only reason. Or you want a second with a different camo pattern (not changeable on invasion variants) or a loadout or a second for CW.

Oh and upcoming quirks might change all that.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 27 February 2015 - 11:30 AM.

[Ikarus Sharvas]

Koniving, on 27 February 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

Yes, and yes.
The Clan Battlemechs will have locked hardpoints, but can change other aspects. I'm certain PGI might put some limits on it, as you're bound to see some pretty nutty builds if they don't. Heatsinks, structure and armor are definitely among the things you're supposed to be able to change on Battlemechs per PGI's rules.

Thanks. After looking more into various clan mechs i am confused about two things (sorry, but everything appears so complicated for a new player):

1. How to know which omnipod gives a 10% missile cooldown bonus without buying mech?
For example if i bought prime variant and would like to change some omnipods, but dont want to lose this 10% bonus


2. In order to get 2,5% Xp bonus mech should have all omnipods of the same variant? (for example all 8 omnipods should be "prime" variant?

Edited by Ikarus Sharvas, 27 February 2015 - 11:32 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

1. Smurfy.
2. Yes but it hardly makes a difference anyway.

[Ikarus Sharvas]

TheCaptainJZ, on 27 February 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

1. Smurfy.
2. Yes but it hardly makes a difference anyway.

Yup, was looking at smurfy, but can't find where it shows omnipod quirks, only hardpoints
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c265254f111bf98

[Koniving]

Ikarus Sharvas, on 27 February 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

I see, thanks for clarifying this. The thing is why i was wondering about standard heat sinks is that double heat sinks are only 40% better, but take double space. Neglecting tha mass problems havind 2x standard heat sinks should give better heat efficiency than 1x double

Edit:

Also, on the same topic. Changing omnipods seems a very "odd" decision made by PGI. For example, i have strormcrow prime, why should someone buy another mech (stormcrow D variant for exmaple), if you can change omnipods on PRIME variand and make it a D variant. (ignoring the ability to research mech skills ofc)

On these topics:

It's far more complicated than that on heatsinks.

By technicality, a "true double heatsink" in MWO is actually a quad heatsink (due to increasing both cooling ability per second + threshold; where tabletop ones improved your cooling ability per 10 seconds [and due to that 10 seconds of cooling being done in one spurt instead of per second, you could say it either increased your cooling or your threshold but it does not actually do both in TT]). That said a 1.4 heatsink is actually "2.8" if you were to compare it to TT, which is why a lot of the stuff we get away with in MWO can happen at all, when in TT the MWO laser vomit meta would be laughable trash.

That said...
If you have a 250 engine, you get 10 "true doubles" (quads).
Even then, if your mech is elited you get 15% better cooling and 20% better threshold, ultimately up to 17 DHS can compare to 17 true DHS but only once you are elited. (Conversely and hilariously, 36 SHS is actually as powerful as 41.4 SHS [which is more powerful than 72 tabletop SHS] due to those same 'elite skills', but you'd be hard pressed to find tonnage for 36 tons of heatsinks).
What sucks is this, and it's why lights have trouble with viability.
If you have a 225, you only get 9 true doubles.
If you have a 200, you only get 8 true doubles.
175, 7 true doubles.
150, 6... etc, etc, etc.

Here's a reference to see how convoluted it all is.
http://keikun17.gith...heat_simulator/

--------

I perfectly agree. PGI did it because they didn't want to change the skill tree or the amount of cbills you need to burn to get those mechs (which is to make the overall costs comparable to IS mechs and what's spent on them).

A much more sensible solution would have been to triple the requirements to unlocks (or set them up in 3 stages of partial skills) to the skill tree, and have each be a single mech with the Omnipod parts and the parts you attach would just set the letter designation (if even bothering with it). After all, unlike Battlemechs which come off the factory line with different factory made variants, Omnimechs are literally built as a single mech with interchangeable mounts (not entire limbs just interchangeable mounts).

Edited by Koniving, 27 February 2015 - 11:48 AM.

[RedEagle86]

Ikarus Sharvas, on 27 February 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

Yup, was looking at smurfy, but can't find where it shows omnipod quirks, only hardpoints

If you go to the http://mwo.smurfy-ne...irks_light_clan page, you can see all the various quirks of both the IS and Clan. The Clan ones are listed for each individual component.

Edited by RedEagle86, 27 February 2015 - 12:18 PM.

[Ikarus Sharvas]

RedEagle86, on 27 February 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

If you go to the http://mwo.smurfy-ne...irks_light_clan page, you can see all the various quirks of both the IS and Clan. The Clan ones are listed for each individual component.

Thanks