25 replies to this topic

[AlphaKale]

Many of us are going to be upgrading our hardware for this game, with limited budgets. With this in mind, when buying a new CPU, should you go for more cores, or higher clock speed? Or a balance between the two? Basically, how much will the game engine actually make use of extra cores so as to make them worthwhile?

[Vulpesveritas]

Clock speed is irrelevant without IPC (Instructions per Clock [value])
AMD Phenom II is ~10% faster than a AMD FX Zambezi processor clock-for-clock
AMD Llano A-series chips are ~5% faster than Phenom II clock-for-clock
Intel Sandy bridge chips are ~15-20% faster than Phenom II clock-for-clock
Intel Ivy Bridge chips are ~5% faster than Sandy bridge clock-for-clock

CryENGINE 3 scales exceptionally well up to 4 threads (cores), and can utilize up to 8, but scaling diminishes past 4, and above 6 is mostly irrelevant.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 25 June 2012 - 01:19 PM.

[AlphaKale]

Vulpesveritas, on 25 June 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

Clock speed is irrelevant without IPC (Instructions per Clock [value])
AMD Phenom II is ~10% faster than a AMD FX Zambezi processor clock-for-clock
AMD Llano A-series chips are ~5% faster than Phenom II clock-for-clock
Intel Sandy bridge chips are ~15-20% faster than Phenom II clock-for-clock
Intel Ivy Bridge chips are ~5% faster than Sandy bridge clock-for-clock

CryENGINE 3 scales exceptionally well up to 4 threads (cores), and can utilize up to 8, but scaling diminishes past 4, and above 6 is mostly irrelevant.

So ideally, an Ivy Bridge 4 core would be the way to go if budget permits by the sounds of things. I'm going to hold off until the last minute to buy my parts.

[SNOWHOUND]

Its not all clk and cores i think the main thing is core architecture first then #cores and clk spd

[Tank]

Wonder if AMD FX's with 8 cores and lesser "clock-for-clock" value will be equal to Intel's Ivy 4 core by that little extra that give 2 more threads utilized by game from FX.

[Vulpesveritas]

AlphaKale, on 25 June 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

So ideally, an Ivy Bridge 4 core would be the way to go if budget permits by the sounds of things. I'm going to hold off until the last minute to buy my parts.

well, that depends on the clock speed.
keep in mind, a sandy Bridge processor clocked just 5% faster is just as fast.
A phenom II clocked 20-25% faster is just as fast.
An FX processor clocked 30-40% faster is just as fast.

the FX-6200 is a 6 core (which will still somewhat scale past the 4 threads, though returns will be small) at 4ghz, and costs $160 http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819106010
the i5-3470 is the cheapest ivy bridge quad core at $205, http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819115234 and is clocked at 3.2ghz.
So the 6200 is clocked 20% higher, and has the two extra cores for possible returns. Performance should be similar, especially in GPU oriented games like anything running on CryENGINE 3. Also, the FX-6200 can be overclocked for more performance, whereas the i5 can't be nearly as easily, unless you want to bump up to a 3570k for $25 more http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819116504 (which with overclocking will be faster than that FX-6200)

So it really depends on what you are looking at in price/performance, whether you overclock, and whether you've maxed out your GPU yet, as your graphics card is more important than your CPU in most game titles.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 25 June 2012 - 01:35 PM.

[Atayu]

Anyone running a AMD FX 8-Core Black Edition FX-8120 yet? Also dose anyone know a good SLI ready M-board that will run 2 of the FX-8120's?

[Vulpesveritas]

Atayu, on 25 June 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Anyone running a AMD FX 8-Core Black Edition FX-8120 yet? Also dose anyone know a good SLI ready M-board that will run 2 of the FX-8120's?

there isn't an AMD board with dual sockets on AM3+, you'll need an opteron server board for that with AMD.

[Tank]

Vulpesveritas, thanks for answer and data to smoke. Just sitting on my 2007 old trusty Core 2 6420 clocked to 3,2 GHz, and it's getting morally old.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Atayu, on 25 June 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Anyone running a AMD FX 8-Core Black Edition FX-8120 yet? Also dose anyone know a good SLI ready M-board that will run 2 of the FX-8120's?

Umm an SLI board wont run 2 8120's as the SLI is for GPU's not CPU's.

That said yes i run an 8120, runs like a dream suitably overclocked and i have no issues with anything i do, real world tasks > Synthetic benchmarks made by people with bias.

Back to the SLI factor...i really have the itch to SLI my 580 with another...for no actual reason.

Edited by DV McKenna, 25 June 2012 - 01:42 PM.

[Valhakar]

Vulpesveritas, on 25 June 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

Clock speed is irrelevant without IPC (Instructions per Clock [value])
AMD Phenom II is ~10% faster than a AMD FX Zambezi processor clock-for-clock
AMD Llano A-series chips are ~5% faster than Phenom II clock-for-clock
Intel Sandy bridge chips are ~15-20% faster than Phenom II clock-for-clock
Intel Ivy Bridge chips are ~5% faster than Sandy bridge clock-for-clock

CryENGINE 3 scales exceptionally well up to 4 threads (cores), and can utilize up to 8, but scaling diminishes past 4, and above 6 is mostly irrelevant.

This is why I went for an ASUS p9X97 Motherboard and and i7-3820. "Only" 4 cores with 8 threads due to hyper threading, however it overclocks like crazy. Stock the cores run around 3.8 due to Intel's "stock overclocking". I can run at 5 Ghz running LOTRO/Age of Conan/The Secret World. Even using the easy-mode tuner in the ASUS motherboard I see 4.6 GHZ. Honestly I was really surprised how much the 3820 liked to be clocked.



Sometimes you have to set down the jeweler's loupe and just hit it with a bigger hammer.

[AlphaKale]

Valhakar, on 25 June 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

This is why I went for an ASUS p9X97 Motherboard and and i7-3820. "Only" 4 cores with 8 threads due to hyper threading, however it overclocks like crazy. Stock the cores run around 3.8 due to Intel's "stock overclocking". I can run at 5 Ghz running LOTRO/Age of Conan/The Secret World. Even using the easy-mode tuner in the ASUS motherboard I see 4.6 GHZ. Honestly I was really surprised how much the 3820 liked to be clocked.

What sort of cooling solution did you go with? I take it you're not using the stock fan that came with it?

[Vulpesveritas]

Valhakar, on 25 June 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

This is why I went for an ASUS p9X97 Motherboard and and i7-3820. "Only" 4 cores with 8 threads due to hyper threading, however it overclocks like crazy. Stock the cores run around 3.8 due to Intel's "stock overclocking". I can run at 5 Ghz running LOTRO/Age of Conan/The Secret World. Even using the easy-mode tuner in the ASUS motherboard I see 4.6 GHZ. Honestly I was really surprised how much the 3820 liked to be clocked.



Sometimes you have to set down the jeweler's loupe and just hit it with a bigger hammer.

Keep in consideration, hyperthreading does not constitute a full core. Hyperthreading only allows you to use unused resources in a core within the same clock cycle, so it will not perform as a full core. More like a 30% core in most instances.

[Lakevren]

Hyperthreading works well with low-cpu usage with high number of threads. But if it's high-CPU usage as well as high number of threads, it somewhat falters compared to real cores.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

My opinion is don't buy top of the line unless you really want to spend the money. 1-2 generations behind usually still has quite a bit of power with little gap. but be aware of any big advances in technology

[Valhakar]

AlphaKale, on 25 June 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

What sort of cooling solution did you go with? I take it you're not using the stock fan that came with it?

Corsair H60 liquid CPU cooler set up with a push/pull exhaust at the top-rear of the case with another fan pulling exhaust out the top of the case directly above it as well. Running Something like TSW or LOTRO with the CPU clocks maxed, I see mid 50s with spikes to the 61-62 range. ASUS Probe II is set to go off at 64 degrees and has never alarmed.

I went with the Corsair H6 for both my rig and my wife's. Why? Cheap, efficient, and in low humidity higher temperature areas a liquid radiator works better. I live in Arizona and the office can see 90 degrees, which is not bad with no humidity but unprepared gaming rigs tend to catch fire and jump out the window.

Edited by Valhakar, 26 June 2012 - 06:19 AM.

[Valhakar]

Vulpesveritas, on 25 June 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

Keep in consideration, hyperthreading does not constitute a full core. Hyperthreading only allows you to use unused resources in a core within the same clock cycle, so it will not perform as a full core. More like a 30% core in most instances.

Lakevren, on 26 June 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

Hyperthreading works well with low-cpu usage with high number of threads. But if it's high-CPU usage as well as high number of threads, it somewhat falters compared to real cores.

You are both right. However since the newer motherboards and OS do "everything" that used to be broken out into IRQ separated hardware, HT allow for you to slip in the "housekeeping" calls without having to wait in line. Intel did a good job this time for load balancing. The secondary virtual cores are always less loaded than the primary cores according to the ASUS monitor. This time around I decieded I would take 4 beefy cores with HT over 6-8 actual cores where half of them get left nearly unused and the first 3-4 get maxed all the time. The last rig was an AMD Phenom (one) 955 that lasted until this year. I normally tend to buy rigs once every 3-5 years with one GPU change. I buy Processors that overclock to get that last 6-12 months out of the rig.

I have a second monitor set up just for senor recording.

[Atayu]

DV McKenna, on 25 June 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

Umm an SLI board wont run 2 8120's as the SLI is for GPU's not CPU's.

That said yes i run an 8120, runs like a dream suitably overclocked and i have no issues with anything i do, real world tasks > Synthetic benchmarks made by people with bias.

Back to the SLI factor...i really have the itch to SLI my 580 with another...for no actual reason.

Thanks for the reply, I have not been building comps for the past few years and out of data. I guess that answers why I could not find a compatible board for both those needs.

[silentD11]

DV McKenna, on 25 June 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

Umm an SLI board wont run 2 8120's as the SLI is for GPU's not CPU's.

That said yes i run an 8120, runs like a dream suitably overclocked and i have no issues with anything i do, real world tasks > Synthetic benchmarks made by people with bias.

Back to the SLI factor...i really have the itch to SLI my 580 with another...for no actual reason.

You can run SLI on many server/workstaion grade boards. I've got workstations at work with multiple CPU sockets, multiple quadros and some with telsa boards. It can be done. However workstation boards cost more, the CPUs cost more, you need to use ECC ram (also costs more) and usually there is no overclocking.

This has been getting mixed up lately as many boards cross workstation and desktop lines, I've got an EVGA SRX board here that OC's dual hex core intel xeons and supports quad SLI.

[AlphaKale]

Thanks for all the advice guys! This has been very helpful. I'll post my final design in about a month when I'm getting ready to buy. Your comments have really given me a lot to think about in terms of how I'll build my rig.