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Asymmetric Game Mode: A Tool For Elo Balancing

Balance

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#1 Shaio

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 08:11 AM

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Why not introduce an asymmetric game mode when ELO fails to match a teams within an acceptable margin. It is no fun when ELO fails and matches a weaker team against a stronger team so why not create a game mode where the weaker team is given an advantage?

#2 Choppah

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 10:49 AM

Were you going to give examples? Seems like the rest of the OP was cut off. Anyways, AFAIK, the MM can adjust tonnage per team to balance things out if it can't find enough mechs with the correct ELO/weight. Whether that actually works as intended, I have no idea.

#3 ScarecrowES

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 03:17 PM

You have to understand... Elo can not EVER balance team skill for solo queue. Elo was never designed to be able to calculate the relative skill of players on a team. Elo can only weigh one single thing against one other thing - your team as a whole vs the enemy team as a whole. And since Elo is calculated the same for everyone, statistically speaking almost all players hover at around roughly the median Elo, regardless of skill. For all intents and purposes, who you get matched with is random, and your Elo rating is random from match to match - which then evens out over time to bring you right into the middle with everyone else.

This is precisely why the devs have finally acknowledged that the Elo experiment was a grand failure and are going to be doing away with it.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 11 July 2015 - 03:18 PM.


#4 Roadkill

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 05:23 PM

View PostScarecrowES, on 11 July 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

And since Elo is calculated the same for everyone, statistically speaking almost all players hover at around roughly the median Elo, regardless of skill.

Incorrect, both statistically and as implemented.

Elo typically generates a Bell curve, but the width of the curve varies based on the exact implementation. It is not statistically correct to say that "almost all players hover at around roughly the median Elo".

It's also not correct as implemented in MWO, because PGI has said that people have hit the Elo cap that they put in place. Elo in MWO is behaving normally.

#5 Mystere

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 06:37 PM

View PostShaio, on 11 July 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

Why not introduce an asymmetric game mode when ELO fails to match a teams within an acceptable margin. It is no fun when ELO fails and matches a weaker team against a stronger team so why not create a game mode where the weaker team is given an advantage?


Give the extremely whiny player base something that totally violates the perfect as sin 1-on-1 parity they demand? Are you crazy? :wacko:

#6 ScarecrowES

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 09:38 PM

View PostRoadkill, on 11 July 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

Incorrect, both statistically and as implemented.

Elo typically generates a Bell curve, but the width of the curve varies based on the exact implementation. It is not statistically correct to say that "almost all players hover at around roughly the median Elo".

It's also not correct as implemented in MWO, because PGI has said that people have hit the Elo cap that they put in place. Elo in MWO is behaving normally.


As stated by the devs directly, Elo doesn't work. For players who sit in solo queue almost exclusively, their Elo scores tend to huddle together in the middle, regardless of personal skill. The reason is in how Elo works. It's not designed to be able to tell you how a particular player on a team plays... only how a team as a whole plays. Without a system to account for individual performance, it's impossible to determine what influence individual players have on the outcome of a match.

Thus any change made to a player's Elo at the end of the match is, fundementally, a guess. If you were playing with the same group of people consistently, that guess might be better, but playing with a random group of people whose Elo scores are also fundementally a guess means your end-match Elo result might as well be entirely random. In fact, it's easy enough to say that all 24 players in a match will have a fundemetally random result, and extrapolated over many many matches, Elo scores will average out for nearly all players right at the middle of the bell curve regardless of skill.

This is basically what the devs have been finding. They've come out on record to say Elo is broken. And by design, it is. Because it's being used to judge something it's not designed to judge.

#7 Xetelian

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 12:25 AM

AFAIK Elo was designed for 1v1 and works best for 1v1

The Elo we're all assigned in this game comes exclusively for 'Mech size and wins/losses AFAIK which doesn't sound like it takes nearly enough factors for you into account.

The map you get
The spawn you're assigned
The 'Mech you bring
The 'Mech composition of your lance
The overall composition of your team

All HUGE factors and not all of them can be figured into an Elo system but I think we can salvage what we have if we took into account Kills/Deaths/assists and/or match scores.

Edited by Xetelian, 12 July 2015 - 12:25 AM.






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