273 replies to this topic

[Cybermech]

have no idea what the gameplay is atm but every competitive match that was being played showed how crazy the mechs where. far too much mobility that it did not make any sense. considering how little tonnage and space was needed for such a massive boost. it was one of the things that made me stop playing as it was far too noobish. same with poptarting in general, ruined so many game titles.
JJ's to launch yourself somewhere is something I'd like more with reducing fuel recharge and the ability to hover.

[RedDevil]

Cathy, on 01 March 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

Agreed JJ's nerf has made the highlander and the Vic has beens.

Reticle shake ain't so sure of as it gimps all ranges, rather see a range vision reduction to kick on with jump jets, fluff reasons being moon dust, exhaust fumes flying pigs in the way. thats in the game now also in the form of night vision it does increase your vison at close ranges but makes you completely blind outside about 750 meters.

Reticle shake isn't an all or nothing thing. You can have it sway a mere 2 or 3 degrees either side, and you'll still hit mechs at medium or less range consistently. It will just make the pop-tart sniper shots a pain to make.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cathy, on 01 March 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

Agreed JJ's nerf has made the highlander and the Vic has beens.

Reticle shake ain't so sure of as it gimps all ranges, rather see a range vision reduction to kick on with jump jets, fluff reasons being moon dust, exhaust fumes flying pigs in the way. thats in the game now also in the form of night vision it does increase your vison at close ranges but makes you completely blind outside about 750 meters.

This is what I would like to see, and set it around 150 meters as it won't gimp jump brawling and it won't cause headaches, or motion sickness.

now it does carry some disadvantages such as jump scouting would be of zero use , but i'd rather take the cons it causes to have the benefits it would give

close range shots in brawlers were rarely precision anyhow. Plus it would reduce some of the Lights taking advantage of the borked HSR when feathering JJS yet able to fire on you with no real issue.

Cybermech, on 01 March 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

have no idea what the gameplay is atm but every competitive match that was being played showed how crazy the mechs where. far too much mobility that it did not make any sense. considering how little tonnage and space was needed for such a massive boost. it was one of the things that made me stop playing as it was far too noobish. same with poptarting in general, ruined so many game titles.
JJ's to launch yourself somewhere is something I'd like more with reducing fuel recharge and the ability to hover.

That was because at the time a single JJ gave full thrust. A mech devoting a decent proportion of tonnage to JJs needs far better return for it than now.

reddevil, on 01 March 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

Reticle shake isn't an all or nothing thing. You can have it sway a mere 2 or 3 degrees either side, and you'll still hit mechs at medium or less range consistently. It will just make the pop-tart sniper shots a pain to make.

Correct, even if it simply removed the easy pinpoint insta convergence 30+ PPFLD that was so adored, it would ensure that Poptarting would not become all the rage again. It was popular because it was stupid easy, with minimal risk.

[CocoaJin]

I like the shake mechanic...both in cockpit and target reticle. I'd like to see JJs provide a bit more initial kick...as it is right now, using JJs actually slow you down. Give JJs more of an initial kick in the pants by upping the initial acceleration...or actually giving us some acceleration. I'm ok with that kick not being instantaneous, give it a small spool up so spam-feathering the JJs doesn't totally wreck HSR.

[Bishop Steiner]

CocoaJin, on 01 March 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

I like the shake mechanic...both in cockpit and target reticle. I'd like to see JJs provide a bit more initial kick...as it is right now, using JJs actually slow you down. Give JJs more of an initial kick in the pants by upping the initial acceleration...or actually giving us some acceleration. I'm ok with that kick not being instantaneous, give it a small spool up so spam-feathering the JJs doesn't totally wreck HSR.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind the initial launch thrust being stronger, just don't want it to be some all or nothing crap. JJs should enhance mobility, not strap you to a one way rocket sled to nowhere, lol.

[stjobe]

CocoaJin, on 01 March 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

as it is right now, using JJs actually slow you down.

Not arguing against JJs getting better, but in TT JJs were capped at your moving MP - meaning if you had a 6/9/6 'mech moving one turn at full running speed (9 hexes) and the next turn jumping at full jumping speed (6 hexes), he'd slow down as well (from 97 kph running to 64 kph jumping - as measured in ground speed, not through-the-air speed)

[PappySmurf]

First they need to go back to JumpJet pre nerfs and start over with a good compromise of thrust- maneuverability-shake-etc.

JumpJet now on most builds is pathetic and un-fun try jump jets on a highlander?

[redacting]

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 02 March 2015 - 06:00 PM.
Unconstructive picture

[Bishop Steiner]

stjobe, on 01 March 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

Not arguing against JJs getting better, but in TT JJs were capped at your moving MP - meaning if you had a 6/9/6 'mech moving one turn at full running speed (9 hexes) and the next turn jumping at full jumping speed (6 hexes), he'd slow down as well (from 97 kph running to 64 kph jumping - as measured in ground speed, not through-the-air speed)

Well, we honestly don't know the airspeed, simply the distance covered... plus landing a 20+ ton nuclear brick probably is not ballerina smooth, lol.

PappySmurf, on 01 March 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

First they need to go back to JumpJet pre nerfs and start over with a good compromise of thrust- maneuverability-shake-etc.

JumpJet now on most builds is pathetic and un-fun try jump jets on a highlander?

kind of the point of the OP.


Without using a recent tragedy to try to make a "point" about a video game. That is pretty dang tasteless.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 01 March 2015 - 10:43 AM.

[PappySmurf]

Without using a recent tragedy to try to make a "point" about a video game. That is pretty dang tasteless


Well it does look like a good example of assaults trying to use its jumpjets to get over some bug spot on almost every map in MWO ? tasteless or not

Edited by PappySmurf, 01 March 2015 - 10:47 AM.

[RedDevil]

It doesn't though. It's tasteless and nebulous.

Edited by reddevil, 01 March 2015 - 10:50 AM.

[Khobai]

The last thing this game needs is a return to poptarting.

The only way I could see jumpjet mobility being restored is if weapons are disabled while jumping.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 01 March 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

The last thing this game needs is a return to poptarting.

The only way I could see jumpjet mobility being restored is if weapons are disabled while jumping.

Then you either did not read, or still fail to comprehend the OP. Poptrating exists RIGHT NOW. It's just substantially more difficult, and carries more risk. Which is fine and how it should be. These all or nothing proposals are either lazy, or by agenda driven.

[STEF_]

Honestly I always hated poptart thing.
I would like JJ back, but balanced with strong reticule shaking, even 10 times stronger than now.

That said, I use jj in lights only.
No sense to screw tons for JJ in other classes; I put dhs, or ammo, or armor instead.

[Khobai]

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Poptrating exists RIGHT NOW

not really. if you think what we have now is poptarting you obviously werent around when we had real poptarting. Suffice to say it was the worst 6 months in the history of this game.

your point is irrelevant anyway because weapons should be completely disabled when jumpjets are active. thats the only way jumpjets can be given restored mobility without being unbalanced.

jumpjets should be for purely for utility/defense not offense.

Quote

I would like JJ back, but balanced with strong reticule shaking, even 10 times stronger than now.

Or just disable weapons entirely while jumping. Its a much easier solution and eliminates poptarting altogether.

Furthermore mechs without jumpjets need to be compensated somehow for jumpjets being improved. Otherwise jumpjet mechs would become outright superior to mechs without jumpjets.

Edited by Khobai, 01 March 2015 - 11:06 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Stefka Kerensky, on 01 March 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

Honestly I always hated poptart thing.
I would like JJ back, but balanced with strong reticule shaking, even 10 times stronger than now.

That said, I use jj in lights only.
No sense to screw tons for JJ in other classes; I put dhs, or ammo, or armor instead.

same weight on Medium, and still usually worth it, if not as spectacular. But GRFs and VNDs still JJ decently. Do notice it seems like the Panther and ENF like to get their feet caught on the terrain whenever you jump though.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 01 March 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

The last thing this game needs is a return to poptarting.

The only way I could see jumpjet mobility being restored is if weapons are disabled while jumping.

Brotip: Being a toaster pastry isn't based on how strong JJs are, it's based on the specific style/implementation they have.

For example, look at the MWLL jet that gave a crazy massive amount of thrust, yet they weren't that great for poptarting because of having to spend more time in the air (exposed target) and being harder to control (have to expose more of mech, can't just peek your hardpoints out and then return to safety).

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 01 March 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

not really.

if you think what we have now is poptarting you obviously werent around when we had real poptarting.

Idiotic reply, since my activity in this game predates yours. but about what I have come to expect from you. Poptarting exists. The Summoner and Vindicator are both decent at it. But it's not the no risk ,high reward activity it once was, as stated MULTIPLE times. And that is how it should be. But instead, people like you want to totally remove anything not played YOUR way, instead of actually allowing for more options and diversity in play style.

But since you post mostly to derail topics and incite arguments anymore, why I am not shocked that you either didn't read, or are just choosing to overlook that.

FupDup, on 01 March 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

Brotip: Being a toaster pastry isn't based on how strong JJs are, it's based on the specific style/implementation they have.

For example, look at the MWLL jet that gave a crazy massive amount of thrust, yet they weren't that great for poptarting because of having to spend more time in the air (exposed target) and being harder to control (have to expose more of mech, can't just peek your hardpoints out and then return to safety).

Why bother? Khobai exists to be a poor man's Vassago, these days.

[STEF_]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

same weight on Medium, and still usually worth it, if not as spectacular. But GRFs and VNDs still JJ decently. Do notice it seems like the Panther and ENF like to get their feet caught on the terrain whenever you jump though.

I really would like real JJ in those mechs too.
It's not the same thing as before, although Vindy came after the nerfed HJ.
Never liked HJ.
My mech that suffered most is been the summoner. Its stats felt down... heavily, after that patch!

Anyway I'm really interest in your proposal, because I used JJ for great mobility. I need them back.

I don't like portarting very mech much. (lol, typo)

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 01 March 2015 - 11:07 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Stefka Kerensky, on 01 March 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

I really would like real JJ in those mechs too.
It's not the same thing as before, although Vindy came after the nerfed HJ.
Never liked HJ.
My mech that suffered most is been the summoner. Its stats felt down... heavily, after that patch!

Anyway I'm really interest in your proposal, because I used JJ for great mobility. I need them back.

I don't like portarting very mech.

Yeah. Summoner is not horribad at it, but it certainly, with it's limited firepower options, and decent hitboxes, could use the old VTR level of mobility with JJs. It could be a real skirmishing terror then, and I would buy one, with IRL money for this ACct, too, were it either more mobile, or had the endo unlocked. Though that is more a subject for my other thread.

I do miss my GRFs mobility probably the most. Again, it's not horrible, but man that thing used to soar!

[Khobai]

Quote

Idiotic reply, since my activity in this game predates yours.

then you should know what a blight poptarting was. why would you advocate its return to the game?

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For example, look at the MWLL jet that gave a crazy massive amount of thrust, yet they weren't that great for poptarting

Except JJs in MWO dont work like jumpjets in MWLL. If they did we likely wouldnt even be having this discussion.

The chance of jumpjets being changed from gradual to instantaneous thrust is very unlikely at this stage of the game.

Quote

Summoner is not horribad at it

The Summoner is a bad mech. Just use a Madcat instead.

Edited by Khobai, 01 March 2015 - 11:15 AM.