10 replies to this topic

[Bubblewhip]

I kinda want to brainstorm with a few people about how to not only make CW a bit more balanced with IS vs Clans, but also make it a bit more authentic to battletech tradition.

The ideas must involve balancing the game WITHOUT altering the mechs abilities in any ways.

A few of these I think should revolve around the Clans having to fight under Clan rules and Clan honor. While IS can play a bit underhanded.

So for instance, instead of a traditional CW map, If an Attacking IS team is trying to take a clan planet, the IS Team can actually initiate a trial of possession over the planet, and the clans MUST accept a call to trial.

A trial of possession would be a 12v12 skirmish only allowing 1 of the 4 mechs of the drop until one team is left standing. Considering that IS and Clan mechs in standard skirmish are actually quite balanced in a heads up fight, this wouldn't be a bad way to go about it.

This would force clan drop teams to not simply pick mechs for CW meta, since they can be called at any time by IS forces to a standard skirmish match. Since IS can pick the mechs before the call, it puts them in the advantage that they always know if they are going to a call for trial.
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On this topic, what about an honor mechanic for the clans and IS tied to a call to trial?

In a 12 v 12 team, an elected clan leader can voluntary choose to be out numbered to make it 11v12 or 10v12 down to 8v12. The reward for winning is perhaps greater honor which translates to a loyalty multiplier.

The converse is that if the clan team loses, the loyalty multiplier turns into a reducer. So high honor leads to 1.5x more loyalty points for each standard engagement, while low honor leads to 0.5x less loyalty for each standard engagement.

This prevents clan teams from simply throwing away worlds with 8v12 engagements very time.


This simulates the shame based culture the Clans have, and as a result only the best pilots deserve the rewards, while below average pilots are punished for their performance.

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Honor for IS is determined whether the IS players breach the rules of the trial. If the IS team has neutral honor and lose a trial of possession, the IS team has the option to continue onto traditional CW with their remaining mechs in dishonorable combat.

A dishonorable IS player is not negatively affected by loyalty points since the house couldn't really care less that you didn't engage the clans honorably, but if given a certain level of dishonesty, clans can refuse your trial of possession on grounds of abuse.

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For IS defending against clan attackers, IS could have mechanics that enhance their tactical flexibility, such as being able to use explosive filled mechs, that upon ejecting, an IS mech will explode and cause massive damage to nearby mechs.

Such a tactic would never be fitting to an honorable clans men, but totally appropriate to IS "anything goes" attitude to war.

Using dirty tricks mechanics will lower the honor of the team, so that future calls to trial can be ignored.


I feel that tying CW Clan vs IS to lore is a good way of fixing the current concerns on how the Clan vs IS war is waging out currently. It keeps it in line with the fiction and gives a more authentic experience while balancing it at the same time.

I'm just brainstorming, obviously some of these ideas would be really hard to implement, and may cause further balance issues. But it's more fun to think about creative ways to fix it rather than "nerf lasers" each time.

[Codeine Radick]

Some interesting ideas to be sure. Though lore based balancing is something PGI has more or less shown us that it is not interested in. Otherwise clan mechs would have the advantage over the IS mechs that the lore demands them to have. Instead we get quirks that make an IS mech that has filled its quirk demands laugh at the Clans generic locked in XL builds. Of which our quirks are very minimal.

But when it comes to mech selection for CW drops, the lore demanded (and was delivered) the invading front line mechs are the only selectable mechs for the clans. While i agree whith that particular policy, it seems as if lore is only utilized half of the time.

I would add to the suggestion list that when clans are Defending against IS counter attacks, that IS mechs (IIC garrison mechs as they would be in the lore) become unlocked for the defending clan garrison, and the front line omnimechs are put away.

Instead of having quirks for the all IS forces they could have something akin to "Veterancy" in the lore. Where only the battle hardened veterans of the Inner Sphere would be attacking, and the less experienced regiments remain behind, and they could then have their super quirks. This is demonstrated in the lore. Instead of every single IS pilot having a dedicated single role death machine. (que the arguements)

This would reduce both sides defender advantages to make the match more even. Instead of 48vs48+turrets+Timer+objectives. You would have 48 "elite" vs 48+Turrets+timer+objectives.

To put it simply: Attackers would have the tougher mechs to fight with. Defenders have all the other advantages and the lore is satisfied.

-Omnimechs vs Garrison quality mechs on the clan attack.
-Veteran IS quirked mechs vs IIC clan garrison mechs on the IS attack.

I kind of thought this up on the fly, so i am sure it warrants fair scrutiny.

What do you think?

Edited by Colonel Codeine, 02 March 2015 - 10:35 PM.

[RedDevil]

CW drops balanced by BV instead of tonnage.

[Zimm Kotare]

My perspective is slightly coloured by my realtive new-ness to actually playing MWO versus my enjoyment of everything BT/MW for many years. So ignore as required!

But I did find it odd (exploring CW recently) that Clan teams were dropping in Lances instead of stars, to me that detracts quite a lot from the flavour of being Clan, a small thing which for me has a perhaps disproportionate impact... Of course I understand its place in MWO, but I do wonder if Clan Mechs could have remained true to lore if the team size was adjusted such that the IS would invariably outweight them by 2 mechs.

Though that is mega simple & ignores a lot of potential loop holes, possibly some that could be addressed by team drop weights (which would of course entail its own massive set of problems.

To be honest, I quite like the first two suggestions.Particularly the section on second line Clan mechs, as this negates the star principle somewhat.

Edited by ZRO Zimm, 02 March 2015 - 11:00 PM.

[Pat Kell]

I think I may need to hire a lawyer to first understand this then to watch my every move so I don't get sued for breaking these rules...

Edited by Pat Kell, 02 March 2015 - 11:14 PM.

[Bubblewhip]

Colonel Codeine, on 02 March 2015 - 10:32 PM, said:

Some interesting ideas to be sure. Though lore based balancing is something PGI has more or less shown us that it is not interested in. Otherwise clan mechs would have the advantage over the IS mechs that the lore demands them to have. Instead we get quirks that make an IS mech that has filled its quirk demands laugh at the Clans generic locked in XL builds. Of which our quirks are very minimal.

But when it comes to mech selection for CW drops, the lore demanded (and was delivered) the invading front line mechs are the only selectable mechs for the clans. While i agree whith that particular policy, it seems as if lore is only utilized half of the time.

I would add to the suggestion list that when clans are Defending against IS counter attacks, that IS mechs (IIC garrison mechs as they would be in the lore) become unlocked for the defending clan garrison, and the front line omnimechs are put away.

Instead of having quirks for the all IS forces they could have something akin to "Veterancy" in the lore. Where only the battle hardened veterans of the Inner Sphere would be attacking, and the less experienced regiments remain behind, and they could then have their super quirks. This is demonstrated in the lore. Instead of every single IS pilot having a dedicated single role death machine. (que the arguements)

This would reduce both sides defender advantages to make the match more even. Instead of 48vs48+turrets+Timer+objectives. You would have 48 "elite" vs 48+Turrets+timer+objectives.

To put it simply: Attackers would have the tougher mechs to fight with. Defenders have all the other advantages and the lore is satisfied.

-Omnimechs vs Garrison quality mechs on the clan attack.
-Veteran IS quirked mechs vs IIC clan garrison mechs on the IS attack.

I kind of thought this up on the fly, so i am sure it warrants fair scrutiny.

What do you think?

That would be fine if it wasn't that defending with IS quirked mechs is right now in a losing tilt vs the clans, and attacking is kinda fugghetabbout it.

Mech balance is quite controversial in MWO, but part of it stems from the fact that comparing mechs is apples to apples between IS and Clan and people have feelings on both.

Making the game more asymettric that in CW clans are given more powerful mechs than IS, but IS has more tactical flexibility (artillery strikes, mech bombs, breaking clan trial rules ect.)

PGI is dealt with dealing the fact that balance on CW and Balance in standard drops are totally different things, where in standard drops. The smart way would be changing the way CW plays and not the way the mechs are.

So dequirking the mechs in CW might be one way, and in exchange the IS team is given all the flexibility and underhanded tactics that gave them the edge in battletech history.

We can requirk the mechs for a 12v12 Trial of possession which is basically a glorified skirmish drop with any weight mixing you want.

and maybe we can dequirk the mechs for an 8v12 trial of possession.

So Clans have mechs in their favor

IS has rules in their favor.

This would also stop the 1v1 that clan mechs are better than IS talk since both sides play very differently.

[Onimusha shin]

too much trouble for PGI.

NEXT!

[PhoenixFire55]

There can be no trials with freebirth scum. There can only be total annihilation of them.

[sycocys]

Personally I would like to see more tactical mechanics in the CW for both sides. Things that split the lances up into missions and 4v4 skirmishes to accomplish/defend certain missions that advance each little war.

There's a lot of ideas that could be pulled almost directly from MW 1-4 and implemented with the current base capture tech and even as silly as the protect the convoy missions can be it really could add a ridiculous amount of depth and strategy to both sides of the combat.

[Triordinant]

In its most basic form, lore-based BattleTech balance is this: Clan technological superiority is supposed to be balanced out by Inner Sphere numerical superiority. It's that simple.

Failure to do this is why we have nerfed Clan 'mechs, IS quirks and now a tonnage advantage for IS dropdecks in CW.

[BARBAR0SSA]

There's a 4v4 CW mode coming, so just hold the hell on.

It's a waste of time undoing all quirks and then changing the game to 8 v 12 and 10 v 12 I'd rather continue forward with more maps, game modes, fixes to game modes, ai, rewards, mechs, or dare I say persistent planets where scouting mechs finding enemy forces marching on a city is part of the game play along with coordinating attacks between many players..mmmmmm

Edited by shad0w4life, 03 March 2015 - 08:03 AM.