35 replies to this topic

[jeirhart]

Xeryax, on 03 March 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

Im not opposed to this... in fact, I think turret modification is another great suggestion... Let's sub laser with streak turrets near the objective... we've all established that streaks are effective against lights... just change the cluster style to hit CT.

Streaks are more effective against lights when used in a 'mech as it takes away all hitreg issues and need to track aim. Base turrets have perfect aim (as long as no obstacle is between them and target) and have no hitreg or tracking issues. Streaks might add some screen shake put would not really do more damage to light mechs than LL ones do now and might actually do less due to AMS.

It might be beneficial to actually raise up the turrets in base so that enemy lights can no longer use cover in base to avoid turrets as effectively. Potentially key turrets to only focus on CTs (front or rear) might also be effective as currently turrets seem to target various components, sometimes seemingly at random. A good full burn by a turret through rear CT on a light might actually kill most light 'mechs immediately.

[sycocys]

Roknari, on 03 March 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

They did introduce alternate objectives. They added 3 "shield generators" you have to kill before you kill the omega...... Now you want more added?

The root of the problem is logistics. Say my team is attacking. I fight way way thru your gates, past all the turrets, and kill your defending mechs at the gate, by the time I get near the generators your entire team I just killed gets to respawn right on top of the objective in completely fresh mechs. Meanwhile my surviving mechs are shot to hell from fighting into the base and my respawns are over 2 km away.

If you want to talk about redesigning the maps and forcing the defenders to spawn a kilometer or more away from the omega, I'll listen. Put some SRM turrets near the omega in that case. Something that will be dangerous to lights.

Or if you want to increase the defenders respawn time to 45 seconds or 1 minute, I'll listen. But just increasing the omegas health again, is not going to stop the light rush.

I don't disagree with any of those other options, but as to the first one - yes absolutely they need to add a LOT, LOT more to the objectives that give either side some tactical advantage and force lances apart into actual warfare missions.

Created a post in the suggestions about making CW more engaging and interesting but it seems that most everyone finds blob warfare to be enough - personally I believe that if they added more depth to the objectives and geared CW towards lance warfare many of the oddball balancing issues would be easier to sort out with 4v4 x 3 lances competing on separate objectives building toward the inevitable battle with what they have left and some different advantages/disavantages that would add a great amount of variety and challenge to each match.

For me personally I find the blob warfare to be absolutely boring as it eliminates the need for any roles and really does nothing but detract from mech build and player variety. Load up on the flavor of the month build with as much armor as possible and do the same exact route or defense every single match with absolutely no variation other than the textures/layouts of the maps, just feels very short sighted to me and lacks any depth or ability to engage players deeply.

[Molossian Dog]

The persistent thread-torrent about this topic got me thinking.

By now we know what people don´t like. Arright. So, in turn, what would you like?
Is there actually any way to attack a planet that is considered fair by the defenders?

Light rushes = lame!
Steamroller assault = spawncampers!
ER LL Sniping = unfair!
TDR-9S spam = OP!!! (previously)
Bait&Switch = You stole victory!
etc etc


So, what would satisfy you people? What is the proper way to do it?
Are medium Mechs approaching the target by walking backwards with their hands up and their pants down ok? Everyone ok with that?
Maybe you want to create a catalogue with approved tactics?

Just asking.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 04 March 2015 - 05:18 AM.

[Mangonel TwoSix]

Xeryax, on 03 March 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

Again, I am not saying my suggestion is the best, but the only 'realistic' option here involves buffing the dropship lasers or modifying turrets...

I dont think this works. Because it makes it even HARDER to achieve the objective by fighting it out, and the defenders already have all the advantages when it comes to that.

I can tell you for a fact that there are teams out there that can stop the light rush. Especially clans. Just a few streak boats can ruin your day, Get a volley of streaks into a mech, and a turret can finish them off super easy. The turret aims for the weakest point of the mech and does not miss.

If I was designing the game mode I'd add a few more short range turrets up behind the omega, and maybe like one more near each turret gen. This would make it slightly harder to light rush. I'd add a dropship control tower for Boreal and Sulpher, that when destroyed increases the respawn time by 15 to 30 seconds. (i'd start with 15 and see what effect that has then move to 30 if the respawns are still too quick). That way the attackers actually get some kind of reward for destroying a mech, besides a face full of dropship lasers and another fresh mech to kill.

The game should not be balanced for the least common denominator. Unorganized teams should lose to organized strategies that are designed down to the dropdeck/loadout level.

Now the lack of matchmaker is another issue entirely. I'd like to see a simple matchmaker introduced to CW, if a 12 man premade is in a queue looking for a match, the matchmaker tries to find another 12 man premade for them to fight. If there is a group of PUGS ahead of the 12 man then it bumps the other 12 man up ahead of the PUG group to defend the planet.

Likewise if a PUG group has priority as the next group up to attack on the planet and a 12 man is in the queue as a defender, it looks for a PUG group behind that 12 man to oppose the PUGS. Dont program in a huge delay. Just enough that it makes it more likely for PUG on PUG games and 12man on 12 man games.

Treat 7 or 8 mans and up as a "premade". Otherwise clowns will be dropping with 11 intentionally to try to get PUG to oppose them instead of a 12 man for the easier win.

[sycocys]

Roknari, on 04 March 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

Unorganized teams should lose to organized strategies that are designed down to the dropdeck/loadout level.

Just based on the problem I've seen - even organized teams will run into great trouble defending omega/cannon rushes based on the very short amount of time it takes to wipe those points out.

Molossian, I don't feel and probably most don't that it is an unfair or nonviable tactic - just that the base falls unreasonably fast giving the defending team literally not time to react and even attempt a defense if they didn't spot the rush immediately.

As far as things that should be done, there were at least 4 previous MW titles + the LL set if you don't want to even dive further into the canon that offer a lot of game implementable things that would make CW more than blob tactics 101.

[Tom Sawyer]

How about timed SR turrets? Let says that there are 3 turrets behind on the gun. From 30 to 20 minutes all 3 are powered up and super charged.

Then as time rolls down they power down to say at 10 minutes all 3 are off line.

Justify it by saying every time the gun fires the capacitors, hamsters, spice what ever powers the gun runs down out ect.

[sycocys]

I don't recall how much space (on the map) is up behind the turrets so they'd probably still need range or you'd still see lights/meds with erLL/erPPC jumping up on the terrain deep and going at it. Slower, but it really still wouldn't take much for a full squad equipped in such a way to totally bypass the defense.

I'm sure they could design something with a fixed cone range though that would protect with the charged power, but not be able to shoot willy nilly at anything on the map.

[Mystere]

Hey you guys!

The light rush has already been beaten by many people a long time ago. And so the question now is, why are you still unable to?

Here is a hint:

[delushin]

Light rush is a thing ... make sure some people have the adequate counter measure in their deck, if you pugging well that's a different story.

[wanderer]

Rather than increasing HP, I'd rather see damage resistance increase instead based on the number of defending 'Mechs left. Blowing a generator with 48 active defenders should take considerably more time than shredding one after you killed 47 of them- which would do a number on straight-out light rushes.

Seeing missile turrets vs. laser ones would also be interesting- mounting LRM/Streak racks on them would mean less perfectly focused hits, meaning their raw damage could be upped a bit without making them overly dangerous. Say, something like 12 Streak SRMs and an LRM 20 per turret. Or just mix em up.

Edited by wanderer, 05 March 2015 - 09:04 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Mystere, on 04 March 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

Hey you guys!

The light rush has already been beaten by many people a long time ago. And so the question now is, why are you still unable to?

Here is a hint:

I always knew vampires were to blame.

[Codeine Radick]

Mystere, on 04 March 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

Hey you guys!

The light rush has already been beaten by many people a long time ago. And so the question now is, why are you still unable to?

Here is a hint:

This would imply that clan lights are = to inner sphere lights.

This is not the case. IS lights are faster and better armed.

However, Every time you are defending you should have a Streak SRM boat (MadDog or StormCrow or even a Timberwolf) with a probe equipped. Light rush tends to fail when this defense is implemented. Your boat should have uniform SRM types with an appropriate range and cooldown module.

You then become 10-12 up on the attackers who go back to the drawing board, usually keeping at least 2 generators intact.

A simple change in tactics goes a long way. Though i do believe still that lights should do reduced damage to objectives, seeing as adequate defense against stock and trial mech builds needs to be answered with a great many cbills.

[Mystere]

Colonel Codeine, on 05 March 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

This would imply that clan lights are = to inner sphere lights.

Huh? Please explain.

<Notice my Jade Falcon tag?>

[Tasker]

Mystere, on 04 March 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

Hey you guys!

The light rush has already been beaten by many people a long time ago. And so the question now is, why are you still unable to?

Here is a hint:

Oh, for sure. Streak crows for clan and [redacted] for IS easily stop this nonsense. Davion and Marik do nothing but triple light rushes to Kurita and see how that work for them, ha ha ha. Davion fail to get even Omega open with triple light rush on ez mode Sulfurous attack tonight. Very sad.

But is boring tactic to have to fight over and over again. Good units realize that is plan doomed to failure and move on to actual fighting. Bad units keep trying for months. Didn't think was possible to get bored of farming Davion, but here we are.

Edited by Tasker, 05 March 2015 - 11:08 PM.

[Mystere]

Tasker, on 05 March 2015 - 11:07 PM, said:

Oh, for sure. Streak crows for clan and [redacted] for IS easily stop this nonsense. Davion and Marik do nothing but triple light rushes to Kurita and see how that work for them, ha ha ha. Davion fail to get even Omega open with triple light rush on ez mode Sulfurous attack tonight. Very sad.

But is boring tactic to have to fight over and over again. Good units realize that is plan doomed to failure and move on to actual fighting. Bad units keep trying for months. Didn't think was possible to get bored of farming Davion, but here we are.

FYI, I use regular SRMs, not streaks. They work fine as long as you can aim.

And why are you liking your own post?

Edited by Mystere, 05 March 2015 - 11:12 PM.