157 replies to this topic

[RG Notch]

DaZur, on 04 March 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

No argument... That said, tell me how productive dredging up the past has been?

It's one thing to not sweep the past under the carpet and pretend it never happened and the active efforts many take to not only keep wounds fresh and festering but to demean anyone who has made the cognitive choice to move on.

That's the biggest problem with detractors... It's not enough they are miserable and can find nothing positive. They find it necessary to drag the rest of the community into the morass like they are doing us a favor.

Those who forget the past are doomed to relive it. Remember all this improvement and such is merely PGI's position at this time. Maybe there's something going on behind the scenes that they can't or won't talk about but still will say what people want to hear to sell mech packs. I mean it's not like they lied about working on CW. I mean so they lied, does that mean they will lie again? I don't know about you, but when some one gets caught in a lie and is forced to admit it, well I don't trust them much after that.
Has PGI done a better job since they couldn't dump this game and move on to Transverse, sure. But that's damning them with faint praise. But any talk about the future, GTFOH, that's just their position at this time.
Does dredging up the past help the people who lived through it? Probably not, but it sure as hell informs new people that this is the history of people you are giving money to with promises to deliver in the future. And it sure as hell will inform Steam players to be wary of giving these folks any money before you see anything concrete.
See that's what reputations are all about, if you deliver on promises and keep a happy healthy player base you reap that when you go to look for new players. Positive word of mouth is great free advertising. When you don't, well that's the beauty of a reputation, it follows you, for good or ill.

[Almond Brown]

Kain Thul, on 04 March 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

Yes.........good point all around. From now on I only will play or purchase "traditionally developed" games from big-name companies. This was my first time with something like this and while it seemed different and strange to me I did not hesitate to contribute even though it was the most I had ever paid for a game at the time. I did that because of my love of this franchise and the desire to finally see a new entry as MW4: Mercs was getting pretty long in the tooth at the time. Looking back at all the things that have been said is just a reminder of what I thought (and dared to hope) this game could be and now with the amount of time elapsed and how far away we still are it just seems like it will never happen.

Reading a lot of the stuff in that timeline was kind of like a wake-up call for me---I had forgotten about a lot of that stuff. When is the last time "hardcore mode" or functionality of the screens in the cockpit were discussed? How about removing 3PV? I remember something along the lines of a statement that if you did not choose to you would never have to play with someone using 3PV. Well, if 3PV was IGP's fault surely it can just go now right? It is not in CW anyway.

I am addicted to this IP like a junkie to drugs or a degenerate gambler to his bookie so I am around for the long term still and will likely continue to keep paying up unless things take a serious nosedive. I just can not help but get a hollow feeling in my stomach though from reading that from start to finish.

Are you really still butthurt about 3PV? Really? Remove it? Why in the F*&^ would they remove a feature that works for those who like it and does little against those who, apparently, don't. Because the salve needed for your butthurt at the time didn't have the effect you had hoped? Wowzers!!!!

[Almond Brown]

Logan Hawke, on 04 March 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

So wait, do I need to order that 120 gallon drum of lube off Amazon for all y'all or not?

Easy there Champ. Don't make "promises", that you never actually made, but will be held accountable for anyways.

P.S. 200 Gallons would be best, just in case. LOL!

[Zolaz]

When has expecting someone to do what they say they would attacking them? Especially after you give them money.

[C E Dwyer]

Kain Thul, on 03 March 2015 - 11:26 PM, said:

Wow, check out the Dec 7th, 2011 post about CW. What we have over 3 years later is nothing like that.

we haven't even got the revised version we were told we would get when MWO went 'live'

[Kain Demos]

Almond Brown, on 04 March 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

Are you really still butthurt about 3PV? Really? Remove it? Why in the F*&^ would they remove a feature that works for those who like it and does little against those who, apparently, don't. Because the salve needed for your butthurt at the time didn't have the effect you had hoped? Wowzers!!!!

I am not "butthurt" about it all. I just used it as an easy to prove example of something they said that turned out to be patently false.

[Celestial]

I find it amusing that my blunder on the La Malinche video made it on the list.

After playing for years, I'd become very accustomed to walking through trees at that point. I didn't think twice about it, its just a part of the game (and still is)
I'm not making an excuse for myself, It's definitely not something that should be shown in an official video.
I just hope it gets addressed soon.

[meteorol]

PGI LIED! REFUND!

[DaZur]

RG Notch, on 04 March 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:

Those who forget the past are doomed to relive it. Remember all this improvement and such is merely PGI's position at this time. Maybe there's something going on behind the scenes that they can't or won't talk about but still will say what people want to hear to sell mech packs. I mean it's not like they lied about working on CW. I mean so they lied, does that mean they will lie again? I don't know about you, but when some one gets caught in a lie and is forced to admit it, well I don't trust them much after that.
Has PGI done a better job since they couldn't dump this game and move on to Transverse, sure. But that's damning them with faint praise. But any talk about the future, GTFOH, that's just their position at this time.
Does dredging up the past help the people who lived through it? Probably not, but it sure as hell informs new people that this is the history of people you are giving money to with promises to deliver in the future. And it sure as hell will inform Steam players to be wary of giving these folks any money before you see anything concrete.
See that's what reputations are all about, if you deliver on promises and keep a happy healthy player base you reap that when you go to look for new players. Positive word of mouth is great free advertising. When you don't, well that's the beauty of a reputation, it follows you, for good or ill.

RG I can tin-foil probably 50% of your post... honestly.

Like my child example... How long you going to continue beating this kid and making them stand in the corner? They've effectively made good-faith effort (maybe not necessarily restitution) and have demonstrated positive improvement in most aspects that previous languished in depravity.

So where exactly is your line in the sand where do they've effectively proved they are worthy of re-consideration? If your answer is "when they give me what I was promised and or what I want," RRRNT... Wrong answer, because you'll likely never see it.

This little kid is trying to make amends and has shown earnest effort... You want to keep sending them back to their room to "think about what they've done" swatting their ass all the way down the hall.

Edited by DaZur, 04 March 2015 - 12:25 PM.

[Kain Demos]

Celestial, on 04 March 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

I find it amusing that my blunder on the La Malinche video made it on the list.

After playing for years, I'd become very accustomed to walking through trees at that point. I didn't think twice about it, its just a part of the game (and still is)
I'm not making an excuse for myself, It's definitely not something that should be shown in an official video.
I just hope it gets addressed soon.

The "walk through" terrain (and "warping" that occurs when touching other 'mechs) is one of the things that continues to bug me as well.

MW4 is old as hell and let me knock down and disintegrate trees for ****'s sake.

[Tombstoner]

DaZur, on 04 March 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

RG I can tin-foil probably 50% of your post... honestly.

Like my child example... How long you going to continue beating this kid and making them stand in the corner? They've effectively made good-faith effort (maybe not necessarily restitution) and have demonstrated positive improvement in most aspects that previous languished in depravity.

So where exactly is your line in the sand where do they've effectively proved they are worthy of re-consideration? If your answer is "when they give me what I was promised and or what I want," RRRNT... Wrong answer, because you'll likely never see it.

This little kid is trying to make amends and has shown earnest effort... You want to keep sending them back to their room to "think about what they've done" swatting their ass all the way down the hall.

What i see within the OP are the growing pains of a development studio in over there heads, doing the best they can with what they got. the results are not often elegant but can be effective ghost heat for example. not perfect but better than nothing. pin point accuracy vs a COF is a design choice as is building a FPS vs a sim.

I personally have given up hope for MWO to be a game worth spending more money. If this wasn't BT or a MW title how many people would really still be here? look what happened with transverse....

But to list and revisit past issues gains us what exactly? PGi lives everyday with bankruptcy just down the road. They monitised the game as best they could and from what i have seen mechs do sell. what happens when we run out.

PGI has yet to release brand new mechs not derived from the IP....

The question for me becomes if PGI announces a MWO 2.0 with or without unreal engine now that its free. sort of....
do i risk more money on a founders pack? it would depend on how PGI approaches the community.

[RG Notch]

DaZur, on 04 March 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

RG I can tin-foil probably 50% of your post... honestly.

Like my child example... How long you going to continue beating this kid and making them stand in the corner? They've effectively made good-faith effort (maybe not necessarily restitution) and have demonstrated positive improvement in most aspects that previous languished in depravity.

So where exactly is your line in the sand where do they've effectively proved they are worthy of re-consideration? If your answer is "when they give me what I was promised and or what I want," RRRNT... Wrong answer, because you'll likely never see it.

This little kid is trying to make amends and has shown earnest effort... You want to keep sending them back to their room to "think about what they've done" swatting their ass all the way down the hall.

People keep saying that PGI is making "amends" like they are doing this because they genuinely care anything about the players other than how much cash they can extract from them. Which is fine for a business, but that's what it is a business. So please stop with PGI making efforts and blah blah, they are a business trying to make money and they are doing what a company in the game making business does. They are making changes to try to woo more money out of people, not trying make "amends".
They will likely never do enough for me to not remind people of from whence we came. That's not attacking anyone, that's telling people what these folks have said and done before. I.E. They said, on more than one occasion, that they were working on CW when they knew this to be 100% a lie. They have knowingly lied. They want money from people based on saying they will do some things in the future. The only thing one has to base putting trust in some one is what they have done in the past. So I for one will never trust what PGI says they will do in the future until it is done. No amount of in game improvement will change the fact that they lied about development previously. So I will never give them the benefit of the doubt, unless the principles involved leave or are fired. Why should I? Why should you? Because they say so? LMAO
As to whether they can prove worthy of reconsideration, again I don't think years of sloppy development and lies are wiped out in a few months of actually working as they said they would. And honestly no amount of improvement would likely ever get me to recommend the game to anyone I know. They have no track record of making anything other than poorly reviewed grade Z shovelware or console fishing games.
Do I continue to play? Sure, because I've lowered my expectations and I no longer spend or ever intend to spend one red cent again on it. So it's free, I've got mechs and bays and it's fun in short bursts. But if anyone asks me, I tell to set low expectations and not spend any money.Of course the NPE is horrendous without spending any real money, as they designed it with the idea of punishing people who don't spend as opposed to rewarded those that don't it's a tough start. So far no one else I know plays anymore.
If this game ever makes it to Steam, I'm not going to post some horrible review, but I'll say pretty much that. All the White Knights and whales can try to sell people on the promises and the detractors can simply provide that link to show how much PGI's talk is worth.
All's I got to say, is outside this place and the hugbox at Outreach, this game doesn't have the best reputation, and that's exactly what a lousy development team deserves. People keep saying the death of this game will be the death of any MW game, but I don't see it that way. If MWO dies PGI will die, but I doubt the MW/BT IP will. Plus, that's a risk I for one am willing to take. Hopefully, whoever gets the license next can learn from all this.

[C E Dwyer]

You do have a very good point, Dazur, it is very wrong to punish a child endlessly for the errors they made in the past, but you punish in the hopes that your child will learn.

Thing is if PGI had said we're going to use the Battletech franchise and make you a game we need funding understand we're a small company and we feel we can produce a game you'll enjoy.

Everyone would have jumped on board and supported it, they didn't have to make outlandish claims of what they could produce when they must have known when saying it they didn't have either the staff or the skill base.

yet they still don't learn from past mistakes just as people let old resentments resurface.

whether to slam this game or defend it and places inbetween the bottom line is they promised the world and yet only gave us a back yard, yet they still keep on promising a mansion and then having to back track.

[Rebas Kradd]

Kain Thul, on 03 March 2015 - 11:26 PM, said:

Wow, check out the Dec 7th, 2011 post about CW. What we have over 3 years later is nothing like that.

Have ANY of you ever been told that early design concepts are subject to change?

[Sarlic]

Cathy, on 04 March 2015 - 12:55 PM, said:

You do have a very good point, Dazur, it is very wrong to punish a child endlessly for the errors they made in the past, but you punish in the hopes that your child will learn.

Thing is if PGI had said we're going to use the Battletech franchise and make you a game we need funding understand we're a small company and we feel we can produce a game you'll enjoy.

Everyone would have jumped on board and supported it, they didn't have to make outlandish claims of what they could produce when they must have known when saying it they didn't have either the staff or the skill base.

yet they still don't learn from past mistakes just as people let old resentments resurface.

whether to slam this game or defend it and places inbetween the bottom line is they promised the world and yet only gave us a back yard, yet they still keep on promising a mansion and then having to back track.

One problem: Why does PGI wants to re-invent the wheel over and over again while it has been done plenty of times.

[Rebas Kradd]

DaZur, on 04 March 2015 - 07:28 AM, said:

This is one of the biggest problems with developers providing access to minimally viable production assets AND verbalizing design concepts to include pillar-planning...

Back in the "old days" (DaZur leans back in his rocker..) game development took several years of behind door development BEFORE the general public even got to look at it. You young folk would be very surprised by the amount of "design intent" that ultimately gets culled from a project in the name of production efficiency and constantly shifting design decisions.

Clearly PGI is culpable in having over-reaching goals and a bit too much arrogance... They verbalized pillars and in doing so created expectations and uttered promises they were unable to keep. That said, normally none of this would have been shared to the public and the precedence would not have been set.

Its a brave new world where every word uttered is recorded and used as evidence to ones incompetence and deceitfulness. Add to that a rabid fan base that secondary to past transgressions offers little trust or latitude for mistakes and we have a what you see before you...

Well said. It's about time PGI's critics learned the difference between...

* Lies and delays

* Lies and carelessness

* Lies and changes of mind

* Lies and early design concepts

* Lies and terminated servers

Boil all those away and you have pretty much only the "CW in 90 days" thing, which is regrettable but completely beyond its statute of limitations now that it's, you know, HERE.

RG Notch, on 04 March 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

They will likely never do enough for me to not remind people of from whence we came.

Why don't you just call this what it is and say you're holding a grudge?

[KharnZor]

Rebas Kradd, on 04 March 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Have ANY of you ever been told that early design concepts are subject to change?

That doesnt matter to them man because, you know, PGI lied and mechwarriors died

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 04 March 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

Hm....if only there was a special testing server for which the masses could use to find broken things....


Must be LosTech.



Otherwise, things are going acceptably. If you want a different MechWarrior experience, there are plenty to choose from. MWLL being the second most modern. You can still get MW:31st Century combat working if you try really hard, as well as most after that.


PGI is doing better than they have in quite awhile, and there is the new Community Manager. Haven't seen her around too much yet.

If only people would be unlazy and install the test server you mean?

[Yokaiko]

Celestial, on 04 March 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

I find it amusing that my blunder on the La Malinche video made it on the list.

After playing for years, I'd become very accustomed to walking through trees at that point. I didn't think twice about it, its just a part of the game (and still is)
I'm not making an excuse for myself, It's definitely not something that should be shown in an official video.
I just hope it gets addressed soon.

Imerperius making the list amused me to no end though.

[Alaskan Nobody]

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