31 replies to this topic

[The Massive]

Now we have VOIP and we can all talk to each other I reckon we should try letting small premades into the group queue. I always thought these small groups added a bit of organisation to the usual herds of cats.

I mean we can always get them removed again if it doesn't work. So why not.

[Karl Streiger]

Maccasimus, on 06 March 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

I mean we can always get them removed again if it doesn't work. So why not.

Good point -

although I'm indifferent about the "group" size.

2 mans would be great for a mentor system - 4mans for the "group" organisation

[Mudhutwarrior]

I have many opportunity's to drop with another player but still dont want to see groups of any size in solo. I would rather PGI try to somehow keep small groups balanced in group que rather than using them as fillers.

[ShadeofHades]

This has been a real point of pain for me lately. In January, I introduced my wife to MWO - she used to play CS, UT, and other FPS games regularly, though never a MW title - and she was looking forward to us playing together. After buying her a couple of chassis from Clan Wave 1, she went through the cadet bonuses, learning her control layout and playing solo for maybe 6-8 matches beyond that (enough that she was getting the odd kill and regularly 100+ dmg), she wanted to drop together. 3-4 matches in, she was ready to quit for a couple weeks.

For someone who is still learning the game, being forced to drop against 8 or 10-man teams with mastered mechs and optimized modules when you're still trying to basic out (never mind elite) your first three mechs, just to play with someone who brought you into the game, is beyond ridiculous. But she knows now that, for her, it'll be months before she has mechs at a level where she and I can play on the same team unless the matchmaker throws us in together. And while she has fun with 2-3 matches solo a night, I'm not sure if she'll stick with it long enough to reach what was one of the original selling points for her.

Given that what she's going through is exactly what any other new player brought to the game by someone else is, I'll go out there and say that the ability to drop a two-man team into pugs would probably be helpful to new player retention and education beyond just my scenario, And with VoIP, I'm not convinced that there isn't just as much coordination available to pugs now.

Edited by ShadeofHades, 06 March 2015 - 04:46 AM.

[Ace Selin]

No, new pugs already complain about getting slaughtered in this game the last thing they need is a 2 man in th pug queue to help stomp them even more.

If you're a 2 man you're more than welcome in the group queue.

[Aethon]

Ace Selin, on 06 March 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

No, new pugs already complain about getting slaughtered in this game the last thing they need is a 2 man in th pug queue to help stomp them even more.

If you're a 2 man you're more than welcome in the group queue.

A 2-man is not going to change much in a pug match. Conversely, forcing 2-man groups to play against 10-man groups is not fair at all. It literally punishes me for trying to play with one of my friends.

[luigi256]

I thought I heard word somewhere that in the future we will be getting a lance drop mode where it will be 4 vs 4. That may be PGI's answer to what you are suggesting OP so they may not consider putting 2/4 mans in the solo que we have now.

[Naduk]

voted no

one simple reason
a premade of any size changes everything (especially if they can heard the cats)
however you cannot guarantee equality in premades being helpful to their team and herding cats equally

polarization of game quality has been significant with the simple addition of voip
with 12-0 becoming quite common again in the solo que
adding additional premades into the mix again will simply make this a constant

[Triordinant]

We fought for years to get a solo-only queue and we won't give it up now. PGI says it's the best performing queue Elo-wise (and they're the only ones who have the data to say so) because groups of any size screw up the Elo calculations, so they won't want to do it either.

[Kissamies]

I wonder if it was feasible to let the player decide. Like in choosing the game type there would be checkboxes for premades allowed. Maybe 3 levels: Solo only, 1 up to 4 mans allowed, just mix me in the full premades. Only solo would be selected by default.

[Ialdabaoth]

Agreed - letting 4-man groups drop in the 12v12 queue as a single lance would really help me introduce the game to my friends without making it overwhelming for them.

[Flaming oblivion]

No...........

Why?

Solo - The clues in the name

Also its the only casual mode start adding groups and you hve to have a group on your team to have the upper hand , Don try to claim to me that even in a case as little as 2 mechs with min mxed builds made to work together perfectly with pilots that know how each other play doesn't give one side the upper hand in puglandia.

So many reasons why this is a bad idea.


And wont happen

[krash27]

Ialdabaoth, on 07 March 2015 - 01:24 AM, said:

Agreed - letting 4-man groups drop in the 12v12 queue as a single lance would really help me introduce the game to my friends without making it overwhelming for them.

And let the roflstomp teams have their way again? I think not.
If your friends can't handle the sol que they will lose their minds with the CW drops.
If you need to coach someone through the game that bad then you need to be in a private match, not a pub drop.

[ShadeofHades]

Still seems like there ought to be a place where a new player can drop in a live match with one other person they know and not be wrecked by 12 meta-fitted mechs. Not to mention ruining the experience for the team we are on - I'm not horrible, but I know better than to think I will make up for a newbie against a well-coordinated team.

[Screech]

Please no farmers in the solo queue. If they need their own make a small group queue and let them try to populate that.

[Kjudoon]

Why not get rid of the group queue (since we have CW) and if you want to group in the PQs you can sync drop instead. That way your Elo is balanced, and isn't hiding huge imbalances, plus you never know if you're going to face each other or team up.

Edited by Kjudoon, 13 March 2015 - 02:14 PM.

[ThrashInc]

If the Elo is balanced identically to the way Elo balances the game now (which is admittedly not well) then I can't possibly imagine there being any difference in the quality of matches/games by allowing 2 man drops in solo (casual, unranked, whatever you want to rename it) queue.

[Kjudoon]

Because elo in groups is averaged between the players in group. It is least damaging in groups of 2 compared to a 4 man or greater. This means if both members of a 2 man are at the opposite ends of the elo, neither should be in the elo match they get. One for being too bad, the other for being too good. Granted that isn't common, but when a mismatch of 100 points is a huge deal.... and the average mismatch in group according to Russ in the last month or so is about 175 iirc...., its a big deal.

Seriously, if we are going to open the solo queue to allow small groups in because of voip, we are going to be in a worse situation than before it was created. Remember the 12man public queue glitch that had units on 75-0 victory rolls roflstomping stomping everyone like baby ducks on the interstate?

Let's leave that for CW as it is now. ::::

[CyborgDragon]

Just adding my voice to this - I support this idea but I do believe there needs to be some kind of 'matchmaking rules' along with it, such as:

1. Only one 2-man per team (to prevent attempts at sync-dropping).
2. If there's a 2-man on one team, then there has to be a 2-man on the opposite team.

Also allowing 2-mans to 'opt-out' of either queue would be a neat option for those that only want to play in one or the other.

My sister and I really want to play this together, but she gets disheartened and frustrated very quickly when we constantly face the large organised groups. How we get placed against the comp teams I'll never know, because she's new and I think my elo is pretty average (I'm not bad, but not great either). Being able to play with her in a more 'casual' environment would be a lot less annoying and stressful for her

Edited by CyborgDragon, 14 March 2015 - 02:22 AM.

[Aethon]

CyborgDragon, on 14 March 2015 - 02:21 AM, said:

My sister and I really want to play this together, but she gets disheartened and frustrated very quickly when we constantly face the large organised groups. How we get placed against the comp teams I'll never know, because she's new and I think my elo is pretty average (I'm not bad, but not great either). Being able to play with her in a more 'casual' environment would be a lot less annoying and stressful for her

This, right here, is why opponents to this idea need to stop being so selfish. We are not asking to be able to put together 12-man pug-farming teams; we only want to play with one or two friends, without being forced to go hardcore mode.

From playing WoT, I can tell you it hardly makes any difference at all...sometimes, it actually hurts the team with the platoon, as the people platooning together are not always very good; you are just as likely to get a platoon of 3 bads on your team as you are a platoon of 3 good players. Most of the platooning players I have met are not on voice comms, anyway.