46 replies to this topic

[DONTOR]

Dont be a sheep, pilot a Wolverine! and EAT the sheep.

[CDLord HHGD]

There is only the Hunch......

[Strykewolf]

Both are good mechs. I prefer the wolverine by a bit; keeping the 7k.

[Whiplash!!!]

OK, I have purchased and customized an Hunch-SP. It's a beast. Loving it already. That SRM cooldown quirk is ridiculous.

[Bishop Steiner]

Phaggatron, on 06 March 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

OK, I have purchased and customized an Hunch-SP. It's a beast. Loving it already. That SRM cooldown quirk is ridiculous.

Indeed. Nice thing about the HBKs ar ehow perfectly role quirked each chassis is. 4J is a beast LRM support mech, the 4P pewpews with the finest, and the 4G is the ac20 jackhammer of doom. Grid Iron is a Gauss MG. 4H is a little more "versatile", so IMO, a little less impressive, but still highly functional.

Only down sides really are that the SP and if you run a missileless 4J are the only ones that are really XL friendly (and even then, it's subjective). Well, that and the lack of JJs.

[KharnZor]

I actualy got back into my HBK 4G originaly to brush up on my twisting. My thinking is that if you can keep that hunch intact when you're in the middle of a brawl then i'd increase my survival rate when running an XL in my wolverines as they roll damage like a champ.

[Kensaisama]

Both.

Being a hardcore medium mech pilot I have all the hunchbacks and wolverines, however I am more of a hardcore wolverine pilot so I drive those mechs more than anything else, I have 1 6R(P), 1 7K, and 2 6K's, will most likely add another 7K to the stable and will definately buy any hero or champion wolverine when and if they produce one.

Hunchbacks are great at suprise face smashing, especially when you are hanging behind heavy and assault mechs, once the enemy focuses on the bigger mechs, you just step out from behind and nightstick the ******** in the jimmy

[El Bandito]

You should try both chassis. They both have ups and downs but good, overall.

*damn, ninjaed*

Edited by El Bandito, 06 March 2015 - 11:56 AM.

[Finn McShae]

I recently was converted to the Hunchback. Its wonderful. Most especially the Grid Iron I just elited with Gauss cooldown mod. Its crazy (yes I know im late to the party).

As for the hunches, twisting liberally means my hunch usually finally pops right befor my CT so I dont see it as much of a weakness.

[Mott]

It's a pretty simple decision really.

If you want to use AC20 - HBK

If you plan to use anything else - WVR.

-WVR has superior mobility, jjs and higher engine caps, similar build size and more armor.

-WVR can LRMish better than the HBKs (although the HBK-J has a very quick cooldown), because of the jjs.

-WVR LL and LPL builds are slightly more versatile than the HBK 6-9 medium laser builds, only because of jj and extended engagement ranges.

I love and still use my HBKs, but they're simply a slightly lesser mech than the WVRs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Finn McShae, on 06 March 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

I recently was converted to the Hunchback. Its wonderful. Most especially the Grid Iron I just elited with Gauss cooldown mod. Its crazy (yes I know im late to the party).

As for the hunches, twisting liberally means my hunch usually finally pops right befor my CT so I dont see it as much of a weakness.

Especially since with whatever they did in the Internal Structure buffs, you pretty much never lose the weapon there until you lose the whole torso. Whereas before and with the old armor buff, the moment you got touched internally, you lost the gun.

Mott, on 06 March 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

It's a pretty simple decision really.

If you want to use AC20 - HBK

If you plan to use anything else - WVR.

-WVR has superior mobility, jjs and higher engine caps, similar build size and more armor.

-WVR can LRMish better than the HBKs (although the HBK-J has a very quick cooldown), because of the jjs.

-WVR LL and LPL builds are slightly more versatile than the HBK 6-9 medium laser builds, only because of jj and extended engagement ranges.

I love and still use my HBKs, but they're simply a slightly lesser mech than the WVRs.

I don't think the WVRs JJs come close to matching the hurt the 4J can lay down with dual LRM10s. The JJs can be situationally useful to the LRM trajectory, but the sheer RoF on the HBK is almost ALWAYS useful.

And they certainly can't touch the HBK with AC20s or Gauss.

Other than that, pretty much agree with you.

[Mott]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 March 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

the hurt the 4J can lay down with dual LRM10s. The JJs can be situationally useful to the LRM trajectory, but the sheer RoF on the HBK is almost ALWAYS useful.

WVR-7K.... 3xLRM10s + JJ > HBK-J's ROF any day.

The 7K is more mobile, more versatile and pumping out 7 flights of LRM10 for every 6 flights of LRM10 the HBK-J fires. (I think, if my maths is right)

[Bishop Steiner]

Mott, on 06 March 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

WVR-7K.... 3xLRM10s + JJ > HBK-J's ROF any day.

The 7K is more mobile, more versatile and pumping out 7 flights of LRM10 for every 6 flights of LRM10 the HBK-J fires. (I think, if my maths is right)

the HBK-4J fully skilled and moduled has a 67% cooldown reduction, and fires it's LRM10x2 every 1.2 seconds approximately.
The WVR-7K fully skilled and moduled has a 27% cooldown reduction, and fires it's LRM10x3 every 2.7 seconds, approximately.

So the WVR-7K requires a little over 5.4 seconds to fire 60 LRMs (2 flights), whereas the HBK.4J does 60 LRMs (3 flights) in a little over 3.6 seconds.

WVR generates 24 heat from those 2 flights, vs 18 for the HBK-4J (25% heat reduction).

Hunchback is also able to carry superior back up weaponry, with 6 total energy hardpoints.

Wolverine wins for mobility and durability, though.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 06 March 2015 - 12:32 PM.

[Mott]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 March 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

the HBK-4J fully skilled and moduled has a 67% cooldown reduction, and fires it's LRM10x2 every 1.2 seconds approximately.
The WVR-7K fully skilled and moduled has a 27% cooldown reduction, and fires it's LRM10x3 every 2.7 seconds, approximately.

Really? huh. I thought the HBK's fired every 1.6 seconds and the WVRs fired every 2.3. Guess my maths was wrong.

[El Bandito]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 March 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

Especially since with whatever they did in the Internal Structure buffs, you pretty much never lose the weapon there until you lose the whole torso. Whereas before and with the old armor buff, the moment you got touched internally, you lost the gun.


I don't think the WVRs JJs come close to matching the hurt the 4J can lay down with dual LRM10s. The JJs can be situationally useful to the LRM trajectory, but the sheer RoF on the HBK is almost ALWAYS useful.

And they certainly can't touch the HBK with AC20s or Gauss.

Other than that, pretty much agree with you.

Not when the enemy got some AMS around. You will need bigger alphas then, as I found out.

In general, it is really apples and oranges. I find torso mounted weapons of the Hunchies, such as the AC20 of the 4G or the 6 energy slots of the 4P to be bit slow to shoot at more nimble targets at close range. Wolverines with their arm mounted energy/ballistic points can follow the target much more fluidly, but they are bit easier to take down than Hunchback's hunches. Don't forget the +18 internals Wolverines got on their right arms.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 March 2015 - 12:41 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mott, on 06 March 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

Really? huh. I thought the HBK's fired every 1.6 seconds and the WVRs fired every 2.3. Guess my maths was wrong.

3.75 base cooldown, x .33 (67% cooldown) = 1.2375
3.75 base cooldown, x .73 (27% cooldown) = 2.7375

That's assuming I am calculating cooldown reduction correctly, which I may not be.

El Bandito, on 06 March 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

Not when the enemy got some AMS around. You will need bigger alphas then, as I found out.

In general, it is really apples and oranges. I find torso mounted weapons of the Hunchies, such as the AC20 of the 4G or the 6 energy slots of the 4-P to be bit slow to shoot at more nimble targets at close range. Wolverines with their arm mounted energy/ballistic points can shoot much more fluidly, but they are bit easier to take down than Hunchback's hunches. Don't forget the +18 internals Wolverines got on their right arms.

HBKs have arm mounted energy, too. And I never seem to have much issue getting through AMS umbrellas, but I admit, with most LRM mechs, I see a ton of AMS, I tend to go to chainfire to burn as much of their ammo as possible.

[El Bandito]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 March 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

3.75 base cooldown, x .33 (67% cooldown) = 1.2375
3.75 base cooldown, x .73 (27% cooldown) = 2.7375

That's assuming I am calculating cooldown reduction correctly, which I may not be.


HBKs have arm mounted energy, too. And I never seem to have much issue getting through AMS umbrellas, but I admit, with most LRM mechs, I see a ton of AMS, I tend to go to chainfire to burn as much of their ammo as possible.

HBK's arm mounted energy points are low positioned and are usually reserved as back up weapons (mostly dual ML). Not the type of weapon you could use effectively against the target type I mentioned. Also, the convergence issue of two separate arms when trying to hit someone up close. The hunch is where most of the strength of HBK-4G/4P lies. From my HBK piloting experience.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 March 2015 - 12:47 PM.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 March 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

3.75 base cooldown, x .33 (67% cooldown) = 1.2375
3.75 base cooldown, x .73 (27% cooldown) = 2.7375

That's assuming I am calculating cooldown reduction correctly, which I may not be.

You aren't. The cooldown quirks are bonuses to cooldown rates, not reductions of cooldown time. If you could theoretically get a 100% total bonus, (ie, your weapons cooldown twice as fast), it would cut half off your cooldown time.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 06 March 2015 - 12:52 PM, said:

You aren't. The cooldown quirks are bonuses to cooldown rates, not reductions of cooldown time. If you could theoretically get a 100% total bonus, (ie, your weapons cooldown twice as fast), it would cut half off your cooldown time.

Actually 100% decrease in cooldown rate would be just that: 100%. Even in testing ground using the crude had held stop watch I am 1.5 seconds between waves of missiles..and that's factoring in my bad reaction time.

[ThrashInc]

Personally I think all of the Wolverines do what other mechs do, better.

Outside of AC20 and Gauss, which the Hunchback beats them out on.

I think the 7K is a better brawler, the 6K has great ballistic ability, and the 6R is great for CW as it's basically a babby 4N.

Edit: Note I don't consider LRMs to be viable builds or useful weapons so my opinions reflect that.

Edited by GundamStompyRobotChurchy, 06 March 2015 - 01:17 PM.