80 replies to this topic

[Koshirou]

A short summary of the successful attacks of the last week. These are not gains (back and forth captures are included) but they show a good picture of which fronts see what level of activity.

[CLAN FACTION] takes [PLANET] from [IS FACTION]: 33
[IS FACTION] takes [PLANET] from [IS FACTION]: 31
[IS FACTION] takes [PLANET] from [CLAN FACTION]: 18
[CLAN FACTION] takes [PLANET] from [CLAN FACTION]: 4

The problem is not just that there is so much infighting among Inner Sphere factions. It is also that there is almost no such infighting among the Clans. In my view, there are several possible reasons for this:
- Clan players try to follow 3050 canon somewhat. In the IS, there is this weird mixture of 3050 and 3025 nth Succession War canon, so we see house-to-house fighting which in canonical 3050 canon did not happen.
- All Clans have (or at least had) attack routes to Inner Sphere factions. People go for the less technologically advanced targets. Not all of the IS factions can participate in attacks on the Clans.
- Allegiance among Clan players is more strongly "Clan" while allegiance among IS players is more to a specific house. Quite natural, since other than having different totem animals and occupying slightly different positions on the "good evil" to "evil very evil" scale, they are not really that different culturally, nor do they have fleshed out histories to the extent the IS houses have.

I am not sure whether the community can fix this or indeed even be expected to fix it, or whether PGI should just set up CW in a different manner (my heretical suggestion would be to throw Clan invasion route canon out of the window along with the Federated Commonwealth and the ComGuards and just have one Clan attack from each of the four cardinal directions.)

[jeirhart]

All of the Clans have the same goal; Terra.

Fighting among ourselves before we get to Terra only delays all of us getting to Terra.

Once one of us reaches Terra, the in-fighting will most likely begin.

[YCSLiesmith]

I don't see how this is a problem unless you're a pug clan player who wants to fight against clan players and can't get a match.

[HelloKittyWarfare]

Simple. By the numbers, the inner sphere will fall sooner or later. Just because we, the Inner Sphere Factions, don't care about cooperation nowadays.

[Wingbreaker]

Clans largely worked out their drama llamas in the first couple months in the way that clans do. They fought, and people shut their traps about who was better or worse when it was proven.

Bygones were allowed to be bygones, and we moved on.

Besides, it's far more fun to fight the IS. Clan v Clan is mostly boring, because it's all the same equipment.

[YCSLiesmith]

HelloKittyWarfare, on 23 February 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

Simple. By the numbers, the inner sphere will fall sooner or later. Just because we, the Inner Sphere Factions, don't care about cooperation nowadays.

Nah the defense of luthien shows that the whole inner sphere will rally against specific high value defense targets. taking terra will be difficult.

[HelloKittyWarfare]

Wow, so we keep a dozen planets and let the rest go down. Everything is fine, right? Cunning. Such words i expect from clanners in the first time.

[Tank]

YCSLiesmith, on 23 February 2015 - 04:39 AM, said:

Nah the defense of luthien shows that the whole inner sphere will rally against specific high value defense targets. taking terra will be difficult.

Taking Terra will be impossible.

[Hanseath War]

This one I think comes down to 1 thing and one thing only. 3 of the 6 IS house have no attack lanes to the clans. Defending is fun sometimes, but for these 3 houses there is no gain. Yes I know dropping in defense against the clan is good for the over all good of the IS, but there are just sometimes you want to attack and take world for your chosen faction.

[HelloKittyWarfare]

Indeed, GraveWalker.
Thats the main point for all the trouble from my point of view. It's just a game and in Community Warfare the only thing you can do is choose your opponent and push borders. On the other hand the conflict IS vs. Clans is the mayor plot...with no reward for half of the Inner Sphere.
We, the players, can do little about rewards. Bad luck.

My personal goal is about not letting the Clans win this little story. Thats it. Everyone had made his own decision why playing CW in the first place.

[Thorn Hallis]

Wingbreaker, on 23 February 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

Besides, it's far more fun to fight the IS. Clan v Clan is mostly boring, because it's all the same equipment.

But aren't those the best fights? Where everyone is on an equal footing equipment-wise and only skill matters? How can this be boring?

[KursedVixen]

Koshirou, on 23 February 2015 - 02:20 AM, said:

A short summary of the successful attacks of the last week. These are not gains (back and forth captures are included) but they show a good picture of which fronts see what level of activity.

[CLAN FACTION] takes [PLANET] from [IS FACTION]: 33
[IS FACTION] takes [PLANET] from [IS FACTION]: 31
[IS FACTION] takes [PLANET] from [CLAN FACTION]: 18
[CLAN FACTION] takes [PLANET] from [CLAN FACTION]: 4

The problem is not just that there is so much infighting among Inner Sphere factions. It is also that there is almost no such infighting among the Clans. In my view, there are several possible reasons for this:
- Clan players try to follow 3050 canon somewhat. In the IS, there is this weird mixture of 3050 and 3025 nth Succession War canon, so we see house-to-house fighting which in canonical 3050 canon did not happen.
- All Clans have (or at least had) attack routes to Inner Sphere factions. People go for the less technologically advanced targets. Not all of the IS factions can participate in attacks on the Clans.
- Allegiance among Clan players is more strongly "Clan" while allegiance among IS players is more to a specific house. Quite natural, since other than having different totem animals and occupying slightly different positions on the "good evil" to "evil very evil" scale, they are not really that different culturally, nor do they have fleshed out histories to the extent the IS houses have.

I am not sure whether the community can fix this or indeed even be expected to fix it, or whether PGI should just set up CW in a different manner (my heretical suggestion would be to throw Clan invasion route canon out of the window along with the Federated Commonwealth and the ComGuards and just have one Clan attack from each of the four cardinal directions.)

The only reason clans fight clans is to get a corridor into the IS in order to head to terra nothing more nothing less.

[Dawnstealer]

xXGraveWalkerXx, on 23 February 2015 - 05:17 AM, said:

This one I think comes down to 1 thing and one thing only. 3 of the 6 IS house have no attack lanes to the clans. Defending is fun sometimes, but for these 3 houses there is no gain. Yes I know dropping in defense against the clan is good for the over all good of the IS, but there are just sometimes you want to attack and take world for your chosen faction.

This is part of it. It's also the fact that PUG dropping against the Clans (or any group) isn't a lot of fun: no one likes losing over and over and over again against well-organized teams, with good pilots, using the strongest weapons in the game.

[DaFrog]

jeirhart, on 23 February 2015 - 02:52 AM, said:

All of the Clans have the same goal; Terra.

Fighting among ourselves before we get to Terra only delays all of us getting to Terra.

Once one of us reaches Terra, the in-fighting will most likely begin.

There are no clans, just a bunch of mercs. How big is clan population playing CW if we take out the mercs?

[Wingbreaker]

Thorn Hallis, on 23 February 2015 - 05:50 AM, said:

But aren't those the best fights? Where everyone is on an equal footing equipment-wise and only skill matters? How can this be boring?

Because clan really isn't as strong as you think it is. We know our weak points intimately, and take advantage of them easily.

At that point, it isn't skill so much as maneuvering.

Edited by Wingbreaker, 23 February 2015 - 09:58 PM.

[dervishx5]

Yeah, Clanners aren't really all that skilled.

[jeirhart]

DaFrog, on 23 February 2015 - 09:38 PM, said:

There are no clans, just a bunch of mercs. How big is clan population playing CW if we take out the mercs?

Depends on what you mean. Are you saying "mercs" as in all players in CW are technically mercs since we can switch faction at the drop of a hat or are you saying only "mercs" that actually identify as mercenary units (ex 228th)? If you are suggesting we are all just mercenaries, then I amend my statement to all the mercenary units that mainly choose to play as members of a Clan unit have the singular goal of Terra.

If you are asking what the mercenary vs loyalist makeup of the different clans are, breakdown is as follows:

Clan Jade Falcon has JFP, RJF, KCom and a few other units that are mostly considered loyalist. They have a touman list here. We have occasionally played host to QQ and GS but do not rely on them for progress. Lords is a weird case as they are primarily Falcons but occasionally play IS side for funsies.

Clan Wolf has CWI, CWDG and a few other units as well. They have a touman list here. I do not believe any mercenary unit has really joined up with CW for any significant period of time or advancement. Please correct me if I am wrong in this assessment.

Clan Smoke Jaguar has -SA-, JGx and a few other units as well. They have a touman list here. They saw major advancement with the benefit of the 228th and a few other mercenaries but have held their gained ground and continued to grow without relying on mercenaries. SJR considers them to be their partial home but like the Lords, goes where they want too.

Clan Ghost Bear is home to CGBI primarily and a few other units as well. They have a touman list here. This is the one case where mercenary units (if -MS- is to be considered a mercenary unit) have truly impacted the course of a Clan(s). Generally without these two units, Clan Ghost Bear's pace slows, if not reverses.


MS and CI have both contributed to and hampered Clan progress towards Terra in the past, but have mostly been driving towards Terra, especially after their most recent switch over to CGB. For all that MS has helped CGB, their actions have also caused each clan some delay, including their own chosen host. I am not condemning or calling them out with this, merely stating a fact that anyone watching Clan progress can research for themselves.

MS and CI are probably that one case where mercenaries being a part of the clans has had a dramatic impact on the overall map of Community Warfare (although major respect to 228th for their progress during their time in CSJ).

If the clans never had mercenaries ever, we would probably be further back than we are now. I do not think anyone can dispute that. However I believe that the Clans would still have a major population of loyalist units to contend with. The Clans are not all mercenaries and while the mercenaries who join us are welcomed and encouraged to carry our banner to Terra, the Clans would not simply cease to exist if they all left.

Edited by jeirhart, 23 February 2015 - 10:10 PM.

[Wingbreaker]

dervishx5, on 23 February 2015 - 10:06 PM, said:

Yeah, Clanners aren't really all that skilled.

Come on up to the Falcon Corridor, we'll gladly give you a taste.

[dervishx5]

[jeirhart]

dervishx5, on 23 February 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

Beaker Gif

We are. It may take a few cycles but we will get to Liao in time.

Edited by jeirhart, 23 February 2015 - 10:48 PM.