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March 3Rd, Is Gets +10 Tonnage On Drop Deck.

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#1 MechaBattler

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 06:25 PM

Discuss!

#2 Strykewolf

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 09:26 PM

Personally don't think it's needed.

#3 Chagatay

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 11:44 PM

View PostStrykewolf, on 02 March 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

Personally don't think it's needed.


Yeah, but why not. Give the IS 10 more tons maybe they will bring more assaults at least we will see more variety instead of endless TDR we'll see other stuff mainly banshees and more odd out stuff.

#4 happy mech

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 02:44 AM

i really do not like this, we are trying to balance out the mechs and is-clan, this is a step way back imo

#5 Kjudoon

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 03:02 AM

Doubt it will make much difference. Numbers is the issue, not tonnage. 10 tons is also a token amout. 20 has some real mathematical value, but even then, so what?

What would fix this, Clans get 3 mech drop decks with a top tonnage of 210, IS keeps 4. It gives you a basic 12 v 9 in the CW department, and foster better play from clan pilots who can no longer just charge with impunity. Of course if you either undo the quirks, or buff the clans back a bit, this will wreck the Public Queues as there will be no need for anyone to run anything but clan tech since they will be flat out superior. Trimming the quirks though also would have the effect of stripping a lot more diversity out of the battlefield as the Tbolts, Awesomes, Wolverines, Vindicators, Panthers, and a few others will rapidly disappear from the battlefield. Too many people only play quirked mechs in the quirk meta. I don't know if that's all a bad thing.

Edited by Kjudoon, 03 March 2015 - 03:03 AM.


#6 Koshirou

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 03:11 AM

Not enough to make a difference, just enough for even more people to delude themselves into thinking that IS has an advantage over Clans. Also, this...

"When it is IS vs IS or Clan vs Clan the drop deck tonnage remains the same as it is currently."

... is going to be a major PITA.

Edited by Koshirou, 03 March 2015 - 03:21 AM.


#7 DarthHias

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 03:24 AM

Firestarter + Wolverine/Griffin + Thunderbolt/Jager + Banshee = Neat :D

#8 Koshirou

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 03:30 AM

I'd rather do things with the game setups and victory conditions than make people change their drop decks whenever they drop vs. Clans. PGI has so many options for balancing CW games, but they picked the laziest one, which will be little more than a token.

#9 Skarlock

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 03:42 AM

This is just balancing silliness at its worst. Overpowered chassis stay overpowered. Underpowered chassis stay underpowered. Single and group queue don't benefit at all.

They really just need to scrap the idea of a CW drop deck being based on tonnage, or make single and group queues based on raw tonnage. For CW they could make it so that your default drop deck is 1 light, 1 medium, 1 heavy, 1 assault. If you drop the weight class of one slot, you can upgrade the weight class of another. For example, 2 lights and 2 assaults (downgrade medium, upgrade heavy), or 3 mediums 1 assault (downgrade heavy, upgrade light) or 2 heavy 2 medium (downgrade assault, upgrade light) would all be valid.

You can't balance mechs against each other when you have two completely different standards between game modes, one being ton for ton, the other being lights vs. other lights, mediums vs. other mediums, etc. etc.

Edited by Skarlock, 03 March 2015 - 03:43 AM.


#10 Bigbacon

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 06:39 AM

and people are still having fun with boredom warfare?

#11 Livewyr

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 07:15 AM

I don't think 10 tons is going to make a difference..

Now if they got say... 30 more tons.. I might blink once.

#12 AlmightyAeng

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 07:19 AM

View PostChagatay, on 02 March 2015 - 11:44 PM, said:


Yeah, but why not. Give the IS 10 more tons maybe they will bring more assaults at least we will see more variety instead of endless TDR we'll see other stuff mainly banshees and more odd out stuff.


10 tons allows you to upgrade that Thunderbolt to a 75-ton mech..like an Orion! Because they're SO amazing.

No, what you'll see is some people upgrading their Spiders to a 35-ton mech with more firepower, and OCCASIONALLY upgrading their 35-ton mech to a Cicada or Blackjack.

Nothing else will change.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 03 March 2015 - 07:19 AM.


#13 Triordinant

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 07:52 AM

It means that a dropdeck that used to have 3 Jagers and/or Thunderbolts plus a Vindicator or Blackjack will now have a Shadowhawk or Wolverine as the fourth 'mech.

Edited by Triordinant, 03 March 2015 - 07:53 AM.


#14 Nightmare1

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 07:57 AM

This is better than nerfing the Clans, I think. I've maintained all along that the Clans should be left substantially powerful but that the matches should be balanced by altering the number of combatants and tonnage limits to simulate the story books. Let there be imbalances across the board; like negative sings, they will cancel each other out over time and with careful tweaking.

#15 AlmightyAeng

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:02 AM

Honestly, 10 tons is a pittance. And if they decided to balance them with a LARGER tonnage and set the power level to Clans to match it, they'd be screwing over the public queue.

It's a token gesture...but not a viable "big" balance mechanism.

#16 Dawnstealer

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:09 AM

View PostNightmare1, on 03 March 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

This is better than nerfing the Clans, I think. I've maintained all along that the Clans should be left substantially powerful but that the matches should be balanced by altering the number of combatants and tonnage limits to simulate the story books. Let there be imbalances across the board; like negative sings, they will cancel each other out over time and with careful tweaking.

This. I'm fine with Clan mechs being overpowered. They're SUPPOSED to be overpowered. But at 12 v 12 and playing styles, they're both overpowered and unbeatable.

I've said for a while that 10 v 12, with really powerful Clan mechs (and once Wave 3 rolls out, there will literally be no mech the IS can go to for an advantage), is a lore-based solution. As is adding rewards that encourage the one-on-one style that Clan pilots SHOULD fight.

#17 Links432

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:10 AM

I don't think it will make a big difference. I just think that it is a step in the right direction as far as what I want. I still think it would be cool to see 2 Stars of Clan against the 3 IS Lances. I have noticed that when on the offensive I wish I could bring all lights, not that I am cool with Zerg Rushing everything but just that I am better in my lights.

I will keep playing and see how I like it after a few days.

#18 Koniving

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:14 AM

View PostKjudoon, on 03 March 2015 - 03:02 AM, said:

Doubt it will make much difference. Numbers is the issue, not tonnage. 10 tons is also a token amout. 20 has some real mathematical value, but even then, so what?

What would fix this, Clans get 3 mech drop decks with a top tonnage of 210, IS keeps 4. It gives you a basic 12 v 9 in the CW department, and foster better play from clan pilots who can no longer just charge with impunity. Of course if you either undo the quirks, or buff the clans back a bit, this will wreck the Public Queues as there will be no need for anyone to run anything but clan tech since they will be flat out superior. Trimming the quirks though also would have the effect of stripping a lot more diversity out of the battlefield as the Tbolts, Awesomes, Wolverines, Vindicators, Panthers, and a few others will rapidly disappear from the battlefield. Too many people only play quirked mechs in the quirk meta. I don't know if that's all a bad thing.

It'd be lore friendly-ish, so I'm kinda for it.

But numbers isn't the issue either. It's map design. Tight corridors, funneling bottle necks, all of these scream Clan advantages. Poor and heavily artificial map design that gives no room or even need to spread forces, no way to flash attack one gate and quickly get to another gate instead... There's a lot that simply favors Clan mechs because the maps are designed in such a short-sighted way. Objectives are much too close together, and designed as such that a simple orbital bombardment on the base would wipe it out; why the heck would we bother landing dropships?

Canonically, mechs, troops, etc. had to land to cover large areas to bring down bases, as they tend to keep their generators, turret control stations, communications, and what not all over the place for the express purpose that a simple orbital bombardment could not possibly be effective enough to be worth doing.

Some ideas follow in its place.
Spoiler


#19 Summon3r

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:14 AM

personally think its not needed in anyway shape or form, any decent organized 8-12 man has no issue stomping clans in IS mechs same goes the other way around.... guess that clan OP qq wins yet again

#20 Koniving

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:15 AM

View PostSkarlock, on 03 March 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

This is just balancing silliness at its worst. Overpowered chassis stay overpowered. Underpowered chassis stay underpowered. Single and group queue don't benefit at all.

Liked for this part.

Different mechs excel at different things. "Under performing" will under perform at some roles but excel at others.

Problem is this game lacks the circumstances for those 'others'. So see above ideas.





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