25 replies to this topic

[Melissia]

Well, was reading a lot of ideas on this subject this morning, and came up with this:


All factions would have a generic frontline 'mech, the standard for their army as it were. The Dragon, for example, could be the DCMS frontline 'mech, while the Enforcer could be the Davion one. These 'mechs should be balanced to be perfectly fine, not sucky in any way-- some people might even prefer them. A mercenary might have a small selection of general inner sphere 'mechs instead, but would not get access to the front line 'mechs of the great houses this way.

So, the idea: At any time, you can always use this 'mech in its primary configuration. Even if you get every single 'mech knocked out from under you, you can use this 'mech-- even if it is destroyed several times over, you can still use it. When you purchase other 'mechs (either with in-game money or real-life money), you're not purchasing an upgrade, but rather, the opportunity to get a different playstyle that better suits you, or the ability to customize your 'mech and make it truly yours-- this base 'mech is only available in faction-specific colors and only in the primary configuration.

This would help newbies because they always have a good, balanced 'mech to fall back on. Similarly, those whom want the destruction of a 'mech to mean something would get something out of this too-- if you have your heavily customized Atlas blown to pieces, well, it's just salvage now, you'll have to get and refit another one. But at least while you're working on doing so, you'll be able to pilot a good quality front line 'mech.

This would also be useful if you are rendered penniless and cannot repair your favored 'mech to the point of being usable, because you could earn money with this 'mech, allowing you to work up enough c-bills to get replacement parts and ammunition for it.

Edited by Melissia, 26 November 2011 - 06:31 AM.

[Shockblade]

Sounds fine to me. That would definitely limit the use of expensive, vulnerable and powerful Clan tech on IS mechs. After all, if I had the choice of going into a risky battle, where the extra firepower would be great, but the chance of losing my tech was high, I would probably save it.

Maybe the system could be set up with different types as well, to be defined by the employer, perhaps based on performance. For example, a House might have a stock light scout mech, a stock medium urban combat mech, and a stock heavy mech for big fights; Depending on what you were doing, you could have a different rig for the job. That would still give some choice and variety, and give players an opportunity to excel in a role other than taking fire on the frontlines to get their custom mech back.

Edited by Shockblade, 26 November 2011 - 06:46 AM.

[Melissia]

Yeah, that's a good idea. Perhaps one scout, one fire support, one front line?

[Corvus Antaka]

Yeah great Idea. I though of something similar - like having 4 prime mechs always be free, OR - letting the pilot choose 1-4 free mechs that can never die - a changeable list even. Lights - assault, 1 of each. beyond this ever mech would be salvage/destroyable if lost.

However, realistically I think that mechs should not be loseable - only salvagable by the other team. I fear otherwise a heavy overrun would cause one side to suddenly all be fighting in dragons vs the other side all taking diashis - and the dragons just get pounded over and over.


It's probably better and more fun to let pilots find new mechs and parts on the battlefield, but not be able to lose them except for repair periods if they are destroyed in battle.

[Oppi]

Do you guys realize, that 50% or more of the players in a match will be dead at the end of each round ?

When I log in to LOL in the evening, I do about 2 to 5 matches depending on how much time I have, each match lasting 30 to 60 minutes. With the estimated time for an MWO battle beeing significantly smaller (you are dead - you stay dead), say 20 to 30 minutes, that would mean 4 to 10 matches an evening in the same time. If everybodies skill is average, my team will lose 50% of the matches I play, which means that a majority of us will have died or be very badly damaged (depending on victory conditions). Even if we win, some of us will have died.
That means the average player is going to die between 2 and 5 times an evening, so every time one buys his favourite mech, equips and paints it (with hard earned ingame money or real cash, whatever), he'll be able to keep it about 30 to 120 ingame Minutes until the evening's first lost battle. That would either make mechs and weapons ridiculously cheap (so I can buy a new one once or twice each evening), or leave the battlefields of the Inner Sphere populated by average "stock mechs" (needless to say that the possibility of permanently losing your mech would lead to countless 'hit and run only' matches, insults and hatred in the chats, and all sorts of childish behaviour). Do you really want to play 32 vs 32 battles with only 2 or 3 types of mechs on each side ? I certainly don't, and I don't think the devs will do anything to create that szenario.

Conclusion : Destruction of mechs will definitely not be permanent, like it or not. Sometimes, gameplay comes before realism.

Edited by Oppi, 26 November 2011 - 08:14 AM.

[Melissia]

Oppi, on 26 November 2011 - 08:13 AM, said:

Do you guys realize, that 50% or more of the players in a match will be dead at the end of each round ?

Sure, unless retreat is an option.

Edited by Melissia, 26 November 2011 - 10:27 AM.

[Cyttorak]

If the devs have an economy, then unlimited supply would disrupt everything...and that's what "free replacements" are, an unlimited supply. It would take about 2 days before every faction had access to every other factions' stock mechs because the markets would be flooded with them.
And I second the idea of multiple casualties per game, resulting in most people driving the stock variant...would be boring.

[DCleric]

Depends on if taking and holding real estate counts and the strategic element of the game, if any. Also brings up the question of mercs. Mercs pay for all of their equipment so why do they get free mechs time and again. House and clan units ok I can see and your rank would be based on wins and losses. Still doesn't answer the mercenary question. Don't get me wrong from a game play standpoint I like some of the suggestions but I'm kind of playing devils advocate here.

[Melissia]

Cyttorak, on 26 November 2011 - 10:49 AM, said:

If the devs have an economy, then unlimited supply would disrupt everything...and that's what "free replacements" are, an unlimited supply. It would take about 2 days before every faction had access to every other factions' stock mechs because the markets would be flooded with them.

That assumes you can sell them.

[lxxwj]

Oppi, on 26 November 2011 - 08:13 AM, said:

Do you guys realize, that 50% or more of the players in a match will be dead at the end of each round ?

When I log in to LOL in the evening, I do about 2 to 5 matches depending on how much time I have, each match lasting 30 to 60 minutes. With the estimated time for an MWO battle beeing significantly smaller (you are dead - you stay dead), say 20 to 30 minutes, that would mean 4 to 10 matches an evening in the same time. If everybodies skill is average, my team will lose 50% of the matches I play, which means that a majority of us will have died or be very badly damaged (depending on victory conditions). Even if we win, some of us will have died.
That means the average player is going to die between 2 and 5 times an evening, so every time one buys his favourite mech, equips and paints it (with hard earned ingame money or real cash, whatever), he'll be able to keep it about 30 to 120 ingame Minutes until the evening's first lost battle. That would either make mechs and weapons ridiculously cheap (so I can buy a new one once or twice each evening), or leave the battlefields of the Inner Sphere populated by average "stock mechs" (needless to say that the possibility of permanently losing your mech would lead to countless 'hit and run only' matches, insults and hatred in the chats, and all sorts of childish behaviour). Do you really want to play 32 vs 32 battles with only 2 or 3 types of mechs on each side ? I certainly don't, and I don't think the devs will do anything to create that szenario.

Conclusion : Destruction of mechs will definitely not be permanent, like it or not. Sometimes, gameplay comes before realism.

One thing. Destrucible mechs are for single player/co-op only, I'm guessing. If it was in multiplayer it would be too frustrating.

[athlonduke]

as much as it wouldnt be as "real to life" as it could be, i did have an idea on the repair aspect of things. "[color="#ffa504"]Oppi[/color]" is right, you will die in the course of a day, probably multiple times. A "nicer" way to handle it might be when you die, your mech is "disabled" and flown back via (something) to a staging area for your team. that staging area "repairs" your mech upto a certain point, ie 90% of full armor, most of your ammo etc. each time you "die" you lose another x%. so death 1, 90%, death 2,80% etc. you lose weapons from limbs if they are blown off, cant replace limbs on the field (ok, one could argue the modular stuff with clans). the only way to get back to 100% would be to repair outside of battle at a cost. it satisifies respawning and longevity during match and atleast makes something out of a market. i suppose you could go back or recall to your "base" on your own if you want.

[Cyttorak]

Melissia, on 26 November 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:

That assumes you can sell them.

Yes, and this was implied in the statement,"If the devs have an economy" since the two main actions in an economy are buying and selling.

[Melissia]

Which doesn't mean you can sell these particular 'mechs.

There's plenty of MMOs out there with a "Tradeable/Not Tradeable" tag in their items.

Edited by Melissia, 26 November 2011 - 11:15 AM.

[athlonduke]

in eve online there were starter ships and you could not sell them. they were pretty small and useless though. same with a few starter weapons/equipment.

[Raeven]

Cyttorak, on 26 November 2011 - 10:49 AM, said:

If the devs have an economy, then unlimited supply would disrupt everything...and that's what "free replacements" are, an unlimited supply. It would take about 2 days before every faction had access to every other factions' stock mechs because the markets would be flooded with them.
And I second the idea of multiple casualties per game, resulting in most people driving the stock variant...would be boring.

Here are a few ideas to help avoid this...

Retreat. The more 'Mechs that retreat from a fight prevents salvage. It'll also give a sense of value to your 'Mechs, if you know you can lose high dollar tech if that 'Mech goes down and your team loses the drop.

Salvage shouldn't be one for one. If you were able to salvage every bit of tech not destroyed in the combat, eventually everyone would be so bloated with salvaged parts that they could build their own army. The only units that should come close to getting 1 for 1 salvage are Mercenaries, and only Mercs that have contracted for 100% salvage rights. The majority of the salvage goes to the House/Clan like a Tax. So, in a typical salvage situation, your unit might get to keep 15-25% of what's actually left. Most of it still damaged and requiring multiple pieces salvage of the same parts. Then, you still have to split up that 15-25% of what is left between the players that were involved in the drop.

Unless they implement some system that allows players to trade and buy slavage from each other, instead of just selling it to the Company Store for credits, it'll take hundred of drops against a particular 'Mech before you manage to have enough salvage to build a complete working chassis of that 'Mech.

Make the costs of battle high. So even if you are getting one for one salvage, you have to sell most of it just to repair your own stable of 'Mechs. The cost to repair and rebuild salvage into a new Chassis should be 2x-3x (or more) the costs of repairing a 'Mech you already have in your hangar.

[athlonduke]

what you described is eve online

[Raeven]

Having only played EVE briefly, I'll just say some ideas are universal.

[DCleric]

My understanding is that Eve online also offers "centralized locations for trade, commerce and combat." This allows income from other activities than combat. MWO is strictly combat oriented at this time as we understand it. Not having a fallback revenue stream if you get your head handed to you in battle makes this concept a little harder to apply.
Not having played Eve I may not understand this correctly and frankly if this is the system they are planning on using I hope I seriously misunderstand it.

[athlonduke]

i played eve way too long. lol. was a for-hire merc, ran my own moon mining operation, definitely messed with markets and had my share of 0.0 (full on pvp zone) experience.

yes, you could make money via other means than combat. typically involved things like market maniplution (buy low, sell high), item production, exploration, or from harvesting (mining, salvaging).

[DCleric]

athlonduke, on 26 November 2011 - 11:39 AM, said:

i played eve way too long. lol. was a for-hire merc, ran my own moon mining operation, definitely messed with markets and had my share of 0.0 (full on pvp zone) experience.

yes, you could make money via other means than combat. typically involved things like market maniplution (buy low, sell high), item production, exploration, or from harvesting (mining, salvaging).

Sp how do you implement this type of economy into a combat only type of system without alienating new or weaker players?