270 replies to this topic

[anonymous161]

Another reason why this game will in my opinion never reach it's potential, it's more about grabbing money from the players than actually making the game complete.

LL has much better looking visuals and variety in gameplay this is what mods do for a game and why a lot of devs allow it, it sells itself just through potential of what mods can do that the devs cant do.

Mods always improve the base game by a huge amount just look at for example star trek bridge commander I still play it after all these years because the mods made the game so much better than the lazy ****** vanillla version.

[Heffay]

KraftySOT, on 09 March 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

Absolutely, but tanks, aero, battle armor, big maps, varied objectives, real woods, all the weapons, better weapon mechanics, huds that work, heat scale/threshold from MW2/3, JJs, etc...would absolutely not destroy this game. Quite the opposite.

You have to have the cbill grind, you have to have the mechpacks, you have to have the F2P model (well, we do now) im not arguing against these mechanics, its the mechanics that MWLL included and got right (really everything it had) that should be carried over. Which is also the reason that PGI asked them to stop, because PGI *CANT* do those things because it lacks the ability and drive to do them. Which is why Samurai has a better job than Viona. Even though theyre both extremely talented. PGI spent its cashola on graphics, not mechanics. Thats why Phil and Jordan "dont exist" anymore.

Well then, I'm sure the spiritual successor to MW:LL (aka Heavy Gear Assault) will finally be the MWO killer that so many Islanders have been looking for.

[KraftySOT]

dimachaerus, on 09 March 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

And that was our biggest handicap, setting up MW:LL was a long tedious process that often required modifying .cfg files yourself, installing and running everything in a very specific order, and praying that your computer could handle it and didn't hiccup during install. It also required owning first Crysis, and then Crysis wars, and for a very verrrrry long time you HAD to have a legit copy to play on anything but two servers.

Installing LL was WORK, and yet we still had a fuckbucket load of people play, that should tell folks something.

Yeah because essentially all mods are 'hacks' theres some degree of knowledge you have to have, just to get going. Places like Modnexus try and make it easier, but guess what, theres some guy like me making FOMM for free and donations, because its complicated. Just to get more people to play our mods. Its hard work and no one can do this for every mod and every title.

And its not even like Mods compete with real titles. Thats not why we do it or what its about. Heffay doesnt get that.

When you hack a game to make a complete mod and put it out there, youre not doing it for a player base, youre doing it because you love it, and you want a good resume. If you have ANY PLAYERS AT ALL, you have a nice resume. Period. The barrier for entry is so high that most people dont even bother with mods. How many people bought Fallout? How many times has Fellout, that high quality weather mod been downloaded? 60,000 times? Thats insanely small compared to the total number of people who bought the game. Yet Fellout, its artists, now works at RSI too, and it made a few hundred dollars a month in donations. Its an EXTREMELY successful mod. Still only 60k downloads. How many people you think downloaded it twice ? I know I did when I bought a new PC.

Even SweetFX which you can use FOR EVERYTHING, only has a few hundred thousand downloads.

You cant compare player bases between mods, and professional titles. Its non sequitor to do so.

Heffay, on 09 March 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

Well then, I'm sure the spiritual successor to MW:LL (aka Heavy Gear Assault) will finally be the MWO killer that so many Islanders have been looking for.

We dont want mechs on skates dude.

[Mcgral18]

Man, that Solaris Arena mode is fun...40 minutes of shooty stompy robots, non stop. Respawns every 5 seconds, with a large selection of robots to choose.


Still, few things beat a Cougar with Wub and SRMs. I don't think MWO will ever be able to compare to that mode, which is simply non stop action.


It truly is a shame the two couldn't compete. Both would likely be better products because of that.

[dimachaerus]

Heffay, on 09 March 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

That makes you a hero in my eyes. When it comes to fixing bikes, I work under the philosophy "Just because I *can*, doesn't mean I should."

Personally, I'd love to have an Alpha Tester gig. I hate dealing with customers, retail is a living hell for me, and I'd be paid more and probably on a more relaible basis, but you take what you can get.

Unless you meant that almost insatiable urge to fix a broken bit on a bike, even when the customer hasn't asked for it because it'll only take a minute or two and it'll be really really easy and only take one new cable, and the bike will be safer and ride more easily and... and... but they're (the customer) dumb, and cheap-ass, and only want a new chain because the bike literally WILL-NOT-FUNCTION-AT-ALL without it, and thats all you're allowed to fix. Not to mention that they got the bike at Wal-mart and it was never assembled correctly, or adjusted to work properly, and is made of subpar metals and components, and is quite literally three frame sizes too small for an adult to ride... *sigh*

Sorry, went on a bit of a rant there.

[KraftySOT]

“The gaming industry is a cruel and shallow money
trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and
pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side.”

[Whatzituyah]

I could get into Heavy Gear as it sits now it kinda looks like a dumbed down version of armored core.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Darth Bane001, on 09 March 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

Another reason why this game will in my opinion never reach it's potential, it's more about grabbing money from the players than actually making the game complete.

It needs the money to be complete. Look how complete MW:LL was after all those years... I understand nostalgia and stuff but when you think about it... MW:LL was just another arena shooter just like MW:O with a bit different mechanic and without the possibility to configure the mechs.

Still, with MWOs playerbase

1) The matches would be mostly ****
2) It would get just as repetitive
3) Developement would be extremely slow and alot of angry people because of that
4) Min/max playstyle would still exist

Yes, I agree MW:LL is good and respect to devs... But the truth is, people playing that were a fraction of the people who founded MW:O. Basically same BT/MW fans and enthusiasts. The difference is, MWOs playerbase now has MORE than those fans (that quite frankly are handful compared).

[Heffay]

KraftySOT, on 09 March 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

Thats not why we do it or what its about. Heffay doesnt get that. .

Are you suggesting that I don't understand modding? Because I find that quite hilarious if so.

[KraftySOT]

Heffay, on 09 March 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

Are you suggesting that I don't understand modding? Because I find that quite hilarious if so.

Well you keep comparing mods to professional titles so I have no other recourse than to believe that you do infact, not understand mods.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

KraftySOT, on 09 March 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

Well you keep comparing mods to professional titles so I have no other recourse than to believe that you do infact, not understand mods.

Yeah wonder why he is obsessed with that unrational comparisn. If hes clever as he thinks he is- he would stop instantly comparing those 2 different things.

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 09 March 2015 - 01:22 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Q: "Why did MWLL have and has such a small player base?!"

A: For the same reason Counterstrike did before it was professionally updated by a full team of people who werent amateurs. Because its a mod. Not because it wasnt so good as to become one of the most successful titles in the history of gaming...but because it was a mod.

So why did MWLL have such a small player base? Because it was a mod, not because it wasnt good enough to become more successful than Mechwarrior Online.

Its like if someone told Cliffy, stop making counter strike, because were making Tom Clancys Rainbow Six. Sure, Rainbow Six had more players than CS did before Valve bought it and put out 1.7. Because it was a mod. Clearly after CS was professionally updated, while its core mechanics remained the same, CS was more successful than Rainbow Six.

You do understand that right?

MWLL was Counterstrike, and PGI had and has, an opportunity, to take those core mechanics, put a professional polish on them, and be more successful than they are now.

Its simple. Very simple. From a theory point of view. The actual problem, is that PGI A) needs money B.) needs talent C.) needs the vision and desire to do it.

[Heffay]

Huh, you guys are the ones saying MWO would be far more popular if it was just MW:LL.

But then again, we have reality here to check it against, so... let's do that!

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

KraftySOT, on 09 March 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

Its simple. Very simple. From a theory point of view. The actual problem, is that PGI A) needs money B.) needs talent C.) needs the vision and desire to do it.

if just theire main desire wasnt almost only A but c too :C

Heffay, on 09 March 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

Huh, you guys are the ones saying MWO would be far more popular if it was just MW:LL.

But then again, we have reality here to check it against, so... let's do that!

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 09 March 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

If you start to compare the games you need to be able to imagine how Boss MWLL would be as a standalone game with financial power behind it

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 09 March 2015 - 01:28 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Counterstrike for instance went from less than 20,000 unique IPs playing, to over half a million, from 1.5, to 1.7. All because its models and maps were updated, its netcode was touched, its movement made fluid, its menus not being clustered, all the little professional touches. The core mechanics never changed. Valve just realized oh hai, these core mechanics are amazing, people will love this with a professional polish. Come on Cliffy sell eeyyyyyyt tooo meeee.

PGI *COULD* have adopted those core mechanics that so many Battletech fans were and are telling them, made MWLL great, even though it was made by amateurs and lacked any professional polish. The fact people played it at all, is a testament to that.

You can blame IGP, you can blame Phil, you can blame Paul, you can blame Jordan, you can blame alot of people, but at the end of the day it didnt happen, and here we are.

That doesnt mean that between now and when the next guy gets a nab at the license, you still cant do those things, and improve the quality of MWO, grow it into something more successful, and sell it off.

Its like flipping a house. You need the house to be better than when you bought it, so you can make a profit. PGI needs to improve the franchise, or the franchise will perputually be in limbo.

So far theyve pioneered....two mech variants...ghost heat...double armor...and ECM that functions entirely different...and a broken indirect fire system...mastering...and the pilot tree.

Heffay, on 09 March 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

Huh, you guys are the ones saying MWO would be far more popular if it was just MW:LL.

But then again, we have reality here to check it against, so... let's do that!

:facepalm:

No. MWO would be far more successful if it contained many of the game devices that made MWLL popular.

You see how CoD and Battlefield, took XP and 'progression' game devices from RPGs, and theyre more successful than theyve ever been?

Now...take what MWLL did right (we went over this for pages and pages now) and put it in MWO.

Boom. Profit.

Edited by KraftySOT, 09 March 2015 - 01:30 PM.

[Heffay]

KraftySOT, on 09 March 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

So far theyve pioneered....two mech variants...ghost heat...double armor...and ECM that functions entirely different...and a broken indirect fire system...mastering...and the pilot tree.

And the most popular multi-player MechWarrior title to date.

At the end of the day, you can SAY they did a bad job, are incompetent, don't have the desire, yadda yadda yadda. But reality doesn't support any of your statements.

[Vassago Rain]

KraftySOT, on 09 March 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

Counterstrike for instance went from less than 20,000 unique IPs playing, to over half a million, from 1.5, to 1.7. All because its models and maps were updated, its netcode was touched, its movement made fluid, its menus not being clustered, all the little professional touches. The core mechanics never changed. Valve just realized oh hai, these core mechanics are amazing, people will love this with a professional polish. Come on Cliffy sell eeyyyyyyt tooo meeee.

PGI *COULD* have adopted those core mechanics that so many Battletech fans were and are telling them, made MWLL great, even though it was made by amateurs and lacked any professional polish. The fact people played it at all, is a testament to that.

You can blame IGP, you can blame Phil, you can blame Paul, you can blame Jordan, you can blame alot of people, but at the end of the day it didnt happen, and here we are.

That doesnt mean that between now and when the next guy gets a nab at the license, you still cant do those things, and improve the quality of MWO, grow it into something more successful, and sell it off.

Its like flipping a house. You need the house to be better than when you bought it, so you can make a profit. PGI needs to improve the franchise, or the franchise will perputually be in limbo.

So far theyve pioneered....two mech variants...ghost heat...double armor...and ECM that functions entirely different...and a broken indirect fire system...mastering...and the pilot tree.



:facepalm:

No. MWO would be far more successful if it contained many of the game devices that made MWLL popular.

You see how CoD and Battlefield, took XP and 'progression' game devices from RPGs, and theyre more successful than theyve ever been?

Now...take what MWLL did right (we went over this for pages and pages now) and put it in MWO.

Boom. Profit.

Oh come on, you're not giving them credit.

MWO pioneered the following:

Founder packages.
Early access betas.
Grab dealing.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Frankly haffey is a house broker. he def know what you are talking about but his desire makes it impossible to understand your words i guess :C

Vassago Rain, on 09 March 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

Oh come on, you're not giving them credit.

MWO pioneered the following:

Founder packages.
Early access betas.
Grab dealing.

Why are the gold mechs missing in your list? Thats ultimate pioneering

[KraftySOT]

Heffay, on 09 March 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

And the most popular multi-player MechWarrior title to date.

At the end of the day, you can SAY they did a bad job, are incompetent, don't have the desire, yadda yadda yadda. But reality doesn't support any of your statements.

Again incorrect. The most popular Mechwarrior title was MW3, which out sold all the others. Financially, MW2 mercs was the most successful, pulling in 70 million dollars by 1999 with a budget of less than a million (it was the 90s).

Vassago Rain, on 09 March 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

Oh come on, you're not giving them credit.

MWO pioneered the following:

Founder packages.
Early access betas.
Grab dealing.

I love you sir. Those are also PGI pioneered aspects of the franchise.

Edited by KraftySOT, 09 March 2015 - 01:41 PM.

[Heffay]

KraftySOT, on 09 March 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

Again incorrect. The most popular Mechwarrior title was MW3, which out sold all the others. Financially, MW2 mercs was the most popular, pulling in 70 million dollars by 1999.

I stand corrected then.

Well, give it another couple of years and we'll revisit this.