148 replies to this topic

[HARDKOR]

Kilgorin Strom, on 09 March 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

Never BOAT ANYTHING.

wut

[Basilisk222]

HARDKOR, on 09 March 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

wut

Pretty simple really, don't boat any weapon, options are good for everyone. (Unless you are forced to of course) but you shouldn't really boat weapons as a general rule. Too hot most of the time (coupled with seemingly everyone's inability to shoot worth a crap) and there's that tiny general problem with being completely flummoxed at (insert range here)

Basically, you should probably know what you're doing and have a solid handle on heat management if you're boating anything. Personally, I find being able to engage at most ranges very helpful.

EDIT: I've almost been murdered for this Post: Let me clarify:

Do not run 86 different weapons. K.I.S.S. still applies.

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 09 March 2015 - 12:38 PM.

[Big Tin Man]

My BLR-1S with 3 ERLL, tag, 3x LRM 15 and 11 or so tons of ammo respectfully disagrees. Great defender with a coordinated group.

Typically 3-5 kills and 1200ish damage in cw from this guy alone, just never use him on the first wave, useless against lights.

[YCSLiesmith]

Kjudoon, on 09 March 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

They are a 'feast or famine' weapon which is primarily teamwork dependent. What makes it successful in most cases are the enemy's decision to bring ECM and how much, know how to deal with LRMboats (charge them) and their own team's willingness to support a weapon that could obliterate the enemy with BAP, Tag and general affinity for the R key. Not to mention willingness to hang back and defend your field artillery instead of QQing over how those players suck.

the problem is that if your team is good enough and well coordinated enough to work together to make LRMs actually deal damage (maybe have a couple snipers tagging) then it's good enough to have everyone shoot the same targets together, and have those snipers actually firing real weapons that do damage. compare a really skilled LRM guy and a tag guy working together to shoot dudes to a really skilled couple of snipers. the Tag guy is useless because he's just sitting there firing a weapon that does zero damage. the LRM guy is carrying all the weight but his missiles take ages to hit and offer warning to get behind a hill long before they strike, so good players dodge them. even when he does hit the enemy his damage is spread across the upper torso, putting every component into yellow but not doing real damage to any one point.

meanwhile the two snipers have the same impact wrt forcing the enemy into cover, but can coordinate with one another (maybe one says 'target H, Dragon, orange side torso, he's got an XL') and they are both doing damage to the same spot for as long as he's in the open, and can respond instantly to him moving out of cover. They'll outdamage the LRM/Tag team, and they'll get kills where that team gets minor injuries.

and LRM guys are stumped by ECM where a sniper can jsut shoot what he sees. LRMs are a joke weapon for clowns.

Kilgorin Strom, on 09 March 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Pretty simple really, don't boat any weapon, options are good for everyone. (Unless you are forced to of course) but you shouldn't really boat weapons as a general rule. Too hot most of the time (coupled with seemingly everyone's inability to shoot worth a crap) and there's that tiny general problem with being completely flummoxed at (insert range here)

Basically, you should probably know what you're doing and have a solid handle on heat management if you're boating anything. Personally, I find being able to engage at most ranges very helpful.

You're entirely wrong. A bunch of Er Large Lasers can strike down enemies at pretty much any range inside their threat envelope, heat can be managed by skilled play, and as far as it being impossible to 'shoot worth a crap,' the solution is to get on my level.

[Basilisk222]

YCSLiesmith, on 09 March 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

You're entirely wrong. A bunch of Er Large Lasers can strike down enemies at pretty much any range inside their threat envelope, heat can be managed by skilled play, and as far as it being impossible to 'shoot worth a crap,' the solution is to get on my level.

Um, thanks for agreeing with me I guess?

"Basically, you should probably know what you're doing and have a solid handle on heat management if you're boating anything. Personally, I find being able to engage at most ranges very helpful. "

I CAN shoot worth a crap, I DO shoot worth a crap, and I use LRM's sparingly and tactically to break parts or break slow mechs. Often however, many inexperienced players shut down thier mechs boating ER lasers, so as a "General rule" its intelligent to not put yourself in that situation. Also, you can go ahead and alpha a couple of times with 3 ERLL in a clan mech. I really hope you don't miss, because if you do, you're probably going to be in trouble. I've fought about 3 timberwolves that could actually mitigate the heat from that laser vomit intelligently out of the hundreds i've faced. Most of them I see shut down at least once.

I'm not saying this is you, and In fact, I described you, you know what you're doing, you can manage the heat. But, as I said, When it gets hot, you're starting to fall off in damage, and damage gets more sporadic, and close up, those LL's heat build up will wear on you, and if that's all you're running, after a few salvoes, you're firing one at a time, Meanwhile, Ballistics combined with lasers might do less damage, and they might run with a limited amount of damage, but they can fire for much less heat to allow the mech to cool down more.

My point is not that boating can't NOT be effective, its that it takes much more work for it to be effective, and most players aren't at the skill level boating requires.

[HARDKOR]

Kilgorin Strom, on 09 March 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Pretty simple really, don't boat any weapon, options are good for everyone. (Unless you are forced to of course) but you shouldn't really boat weapons as a general rule. Too hot most of the time (coupled with seemingly everyone's inability to shoot worth a crap) and there's that tiny general problem with being completely flummoxed at (insert range here)

Basically, you should probably know what you're doing and have a solid handle on heat management if you're boating anything. Personally, I find being able to engage at most ranges very helpful.

This is terrible advice, IMHO. Mechs with a single weapon are generally superior to mixed loadouts.

[Basilisk222]

HARDKOR, on 09 March 2015 - 11:30 AM, said:

This is terrible advice, IMHO. Mechs with a single weapon are generally superior to mixed loadouts.

Are you sure we're talking about the same thing?

Are you seriously insinuating that running 6 LRM hard points is better than running 5 and an 1 energy?

What about just 2 gauss or 2 AC/20? How about stock nova prime?

I'm not saying run a small laser a medium laser a large laser a LBX 20 and a PPC. I'm saying don't use One weapon only for your entire loadout, especially if that loadout is being used by a new player. (With one exception, energy boats are far less screwed by boating, but they're really hot.)

Running just SRM or SSRM or really any missle boat makes you vulnerable in some way, just like running 2 big or 2 little AC's Running all lasers or all PPC's of the same type as your ONLY option?

Just seems kinda crazy not to have one back up of some kind.

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 09 March 2015 - 11:39 AM.

[hybrid black]

Kilgorin Strom, on 09 March 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Pretty simple really, don't boat any weapon, options are good for everyone. (Unless you are forced to of course) but you shouldn't really boat weapons as a general rule. Too hot most of the time (coupled with seemingly everyone's inability to shoot worth a crap) and there's that tiny general problem with being completely flummoxed at (insert range here)

Basically, you should probably know what you're doing and have a solid handle on heat management if you're boating anything. Personally, I find being able to engage at most ranges very helpful.

how much crack have you been smoking?

***********WARRING NEW PLAYERS DO NO DO WHAT THIS LUNATIC SAYS **********************

[Basilisk222]

Jeez wow. Whatever, Run 10 ERMLAS. Sorry I said anything.

[YCSLiesmith]

Kilgorin Strom, on 09 March 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

Are you sure we're talking about the same thing?

Are you seriously insinuating that running 6 LRM hard points is better than running 5 and an 1 energy?

What about just 2 gauss or 2 AC/20? How about stock nova prime?

I'm not saying run a small laser a medium laser a large laser a LBX 20 and a PPC. I'm saying don't use One weapon only for your entire loadout, especially if that loadout is being used by a new player. (With one exception, energy boats are far less screwed by boating, but they're really hot.)

Running just SRM or SSRM or really any missle boat makes you vulnerable in some way, just like running 2 big or 2 little AC's Running all lasers or all PPC's of the same type as your ONLY option?

Just seems kinda crazy not to have one back up of some kind.

6 lrm hardpoints are definitely better than 5 and 1, since the 1 energy is not enough to accomplish anything at all so you might as well go all in on your terrible loadout rather making it a terrible, bastardized loadout that can't even shoot missiles well

[HARDKOR]

Kilgorin Strom, on 09 March 2015 - 11:58 AM, said:

Jeez wow. Whatever, Run 10 ERMLAS. Sorry I said anything.

I run 7 ermll or 6 LL or 1 lpl 6 ml

[Basilisk222]

YCSLiesmith, on 09 March 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

6 lrm hardpoints are definitely better than 5 and 1, since the 1 energy is not enough to accomplish anything at all so you might as well go all in on your terrible loadout rather making it a terrible, bastardized loadout that can't even shoot missiles well

Ok, that makes more sense as an answer, and to be honest my example there is really bad. I see most people using more evened out mixed builds to good effect though. Sure vomit cat is great, but Gauss Dog is terrible. Maybe it's just the weapons in general being boated. I do concede it makes sense to boat lasers good damage for low weight, as long as you understand their heat build up. My point was laser boating causes shutdowns for a lot of pilots (maybe not so high up in the tiers) but shutting down is usually a death sentence. I don't really feel Clan PPC boats work, damage is kind of bad and heat's crazy.

I mean would an LRMer be better served halving number of racks and running other groups too is my point. (like 3 X LRM15 + 2 ERLL or ppc or something) I think in general it is. That's really where I'm going here.

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 09 March 2015 - 12:23 PM.

[HARDKOR]

The main idea is to get optimum ranges, travel times, and recharge times synced up.

[operatorZ]

Kilgorin Strom, on 09 March 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Pretty simple really, don't boat any weapon, options are good for everyone. (Unless you are forced to of course) but you shouldn't really boat weapons as a general rule. Too hot most of the time (coupled with seemingly everyone's inability to shoot worth a crap) and there's that tiny general problem with being completely flummoxed at (insert range here)

Basically, you should probably know what you're doing and have a solid handle on heat management if you're boating anything. Personally, I find being able to engage at most ranges very helpful.

but...my mouse only has two buttons...

[Richter Kerensky]

Kilgorin Strom, on 09 March 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

Are you sure we're talking about the same thing?

Are you seriously insinuating that running 6 LRM hard points is better than running 5 and an 1 energy?

What about just 2 gauss or 2 AC/20? How about stock nova prime?

I'm not saying run a small laser a medium laser a large laser a LBX 20 and a PPC. I'm saying don't use One weapon only for your entire loadout, especially if that loadout is being used by a new player. (With one exception, energy boats are far less screwed by boating, but they're really hot.)

Running just SRM or SSRM or really any missle boat makes you vulnerable in some way, just like running 2 big or 2 little AC's Running all lasers or all PPC's of the same type as your ONLY option?

Just seems kinda crazy not to have one back up of some kind.

Don't run LRMs at all.

[Basilisk222]

Richter Kerensky, on 09 March 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

Don't run LRMs at all.

Well that's an option. I mean it kind of removes certain chassis entirely from viability, but it's an option I guess.

Could run a Splat Cat, if that's all you have, but I think you'd be dead before you did anything.

[ThrashInc]

When I switch factions later, which clan should we go to for best cash money intake?

--In response to my OP, the reason it's dumb is because there is too much ECM. Personally, I'm fine with it, I don't like LRMs or that type of gameplay. I stated in another topic that IS should get a separate CW trial dropdeck for new players because I honestly feel the biggest drawback to IS is the ability to be a special snowflake and too many mechs to choose from.

If PGI made the ECM Raven and Spider with ER LL available, the Wolverine and Hunchback with LL / ML available, the Thunderbolt and Cataphract with ERPPC / AC5's and then the 5S or a Battlemaster available, I think it would go a long way to balancing ranges and usefulness for new players/pugs.

[Dawnstealer]

About the only real advantage to LRMs is their indirect fire ability. With an LRM boat, you can lob fire OVER cover and from BEHIND cover. A sniper has to be able to see a target which means they can be seen.

That said, I stopped taking my LRM-themed Stalker (still has 4 MLs as backup weapons) around the time the HBR dropped. While it would sand-blast off armor of Clan mechs, it was awful at killing them. Not terrible on offense, with someone spotting, but rancid on defense when Clan mechs would just storm on by, weathering the missiles and giggling quietly to themselves as they blew Omega away.

[YCSLiesmith]

Kilgorin Strom, on 09 March 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

Well that's an option. I mean it kind of removes certain chassis entirely from viability, but it's an option I guess.

Could run a Splat Cat, if that's all you have, but I think you'd be dead before you did anything.

the fact is, if we're talking CW we're talking at least some competitive play. It can be the really shallow end of the competitive pool but you're still potentially running with the big dogs, at any moment some great player could drop on you. Shooting LRMs is not competitive. the chassis that depend on them are not competitive. Abandoning them is something you just have to accept if you want to win.

[Novawrecker]

Kilgorin Strom, on 09 March 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

Never BOAT ANYTHING...

Said no TDR-5SS Wuberbolt pilot EVAR