29 replies to this topic

[Mainhunter]

Widowmaker1981, on 09 March 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

See how that works? it DID lose the LPL specfic quirks, but in reality it only lost 5% to the actual VALUES

Me again. It's actually 10%, range and heat each 5%.

[Mcgral18]

Mainhunter, on 09 March 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

Why did they take away the Lpulse quirks? I have no problem when they lower the stats, but completely delete them and gave the identical buffs like the S model?

I payd for a camo and bought the needed modules now I can't play with that mess, because it is useless for me. Is that a future business model, buffing something till you sold enough?

And thats not the only model where they did the same.

You DARE call the WubShee useless!?

That 5% must have really bothered you...WubShee is completely unaffected, since the extra -2.5% heat gen made the MPLs cooler, and it has an identical heat profile as the 15% LPL quirks.

[DarthPeanut]

Yea the changes where a bit arbitrary seeing as how it was not a 'problem' mech before or out of line with the previous quirks. The 5% drop in quirks for heat and range does not break the LPL based builds but they lost a bit of their edge for sure. That little bit of added optimal range was really nice. The heat change, while noticeable, is fairly manageable.

You can run a STD335-350 with the 4 LPL build or XL at added risk. I personally am not a big fan of XL but there are situations where it is better then be left behind to die miserably to a light pack out rotating you.

Voivode, on 09 March 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

The quirks for the Hero variant are pretty intriguing if you're looking for LPL buffs.

AC/10 Cooldown20%
Ballistic Weapon Cooldown10%
AC/10 Range20%
Ballistic Weapon Range10%
Large Pulse Laser Heat Generation-20%
Energy Weapon Heat Generation-10%
Large Pulse Laser Range20%
Energy Weapon Range10%
PPC Velocity +20%

EDIT: Fixed formatting and messed around in Smurfy. Perhaps a decent sale will convince me to put this in my mech bay.

The La Malinche on paper looks terribly underwhelming even with those quirks.

Only 3 usable hardpoints for the LPL spread across the mech and only 4 total energy hardpoints makes it pretty meh for energy boating. Arm hardpoints are very low meaning lots of exposure and terrain clearance issues. Tanking with your arms (part of the Banshees major traits) and losing one cost you substantial firepower. Etc.

I love the Banshees but the hero mech leaves me wondering what useful build/ purpose it could serve. At least one that is not already done much better by any other Banshee.

[Ultimax]

Widowmaker1981, on 09 March 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

Do you ONLY play CW? Because, unless you don't actually play the game at all, thats the only way i can make any sense of how constantly you over value range. In every single situation outside of CW and Alpine peaks it is trivial to make full use of a weapon with a 400m+ range. You need that much, but once you have that the important stats for laser weapons are damage per heat and duration. IS LPL has the 400m range (assuming module/quirk) and has easily the best damage per heat of any laser in the game, along with crazy good IS pulse duration. The only reason to use LLs/ERLLs over LPLs is if your particular chassis is quirked specifically for those weapons (Stalker 4N) or cant get the tonnage.

I think you vastly underestimate the number of situations where you are fighting at 500 to 600m in this game, considering that just a single grid square from one side to other is around 500m. (Opposite sides from terra therma center, firing into B4 from B3 on Frozen City, Firing across the Caldera on Caustic for some reference points).





With the new generic quirks you can get 3 LLAS for almost the same price of 2 LPLs and w/ T5 module have an optimal range of 540m.


This is the benefit of a percentage based quirk, that is affecting a larger base range.

You can go a little nuts with the engine from the tonnage savings


Or you can do a more typical sized engine and add another LLAS.


If there were no real compelling range play in this game in the normal queue, there wouldn't be so many clan builds loading Clan Large Pulses when you can just grab a 1 ton CER Medium and reach 450m with a MK 1 TC and T5 module.


Obviously, people use Clan LPLs, which are undoubtedly worse damage per ton than CER Meds.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 09 March 2015 - 03:22 PM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Ultimatum X, on 09 March 2015 - 03:13 PM, said:

I think you vastly underestimate the number of situations where you are fighting at 500 to 600m in this game, considering that just a single grid square from one side to other is around 500m. (Opposite sides from terra therma center, firing into B4 from B3 on Frozen City, Firing across the Caldera on Caustic for some reference points).





With the new generic quirks you can get 3 LLAS for almost the same price of 2 LPLs and w/ T5 module have an optimal range of 540m.


This is the benefit of a percentage based quirk, that is affecting a larger base range.

You can go a little nuts with the engine from the tonnage savings


Or you can do a more typical sized engine and add another LLAS.


If there were no real compelling range play in this game in the normal queue, there wouldn't be so many clan builds loading Clan Large Pulses when you can just grab a 1 ton CER Medium and reach 450m with a MK 1 TC and T5 module.


Obviously, people use Clan LPLs, which are undoubtedly worse damage per ton than CER Meds.

Large lasers have 1.5x the duration of LPLs, which is imo far more important than minding if you are only doing like 8 dmg at 600 meters instead of 11, which is still almost at much as the LL at optimum anyway and you get better as range decreases, which it always does.

And people use C-LPLs for the damage per HEAT. 13 dmg for 10 heat, or 1.3, as opposed to the ERML doing 7 for 6 or 1.16 dmg per heat. Plus the builds that use the LPLs would normally have a great deal of spare tonnage and no space if they boated ERMLs instead...

edit and compare unquirked IS LPLs lasers with those and you see why they are so popular (and far better than you give them credit for) IS LPL = 11 dmg for 7 heat = 1.57 dmg/heat (LL = 1.28), with only a .6s duration (once you take lag and reaction time into account it is not really possible to reactively spread dmg from them)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 10 March 2015 - 12:17 AM.

[Sagamore]

It actually makes sense from a business stand-point. The Wubshee was becoming a very popular mech and therefore the quirks were moved to the paywall Banshee. I would be hesitant to buy "Man of La Mancha" knowing that the quirks could be adjusted (or changed entirely) if Large Pulses were your reason for buying it.

[Widowmaker1981]

Sagamore, on 10 March 2015 - 12:58 AM, said:

It actually makes sense from a business stand-point. The Wubshee was becoming a very popular mech and therefore the quirks were moved to the paywall Banshee. I would be hesitant to buy "Man of La Mancha" knowing that the quirks could be adjusted (or changed entirely) if Large Pulses were your reason for buying it.

Do NOT buy the La Malinche, its terrible, whatever the quirks say - the strength of the Wubshee is the super high mounted ST energy ports, which the LM does not have (2 knuckle dragging arm energy, one belly energy and a head laser). Its by far the worst Banshee - the 3S is better which is saying something because the 3S sucks.

[El Bandito]

Widowmaker1981, on 09 March 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

Do you ONLY play CW? Because, unless you don't actually play the game at all, thats the only way i can make any sense of how constantly you over value range. In every single situation outside of CW and Alpine peaks it is trivial to make full use of a weapon with a 400m+ range. You need that much, but once you have that the important stats for laser weapons are damage per heat and duration. IS LPL has the 400m range (assuming module/quirk) and has easily the best damage per heat of any laser in the game, along with crazy good IS pulse duration. The only reason to use LLs/ERLLs over LPLs is if your particular chassis is quirked specifically for those weapons (Stalker 4N) or cant get the tonnage.

Yep, LPLs are way better than LLs even with only generic energy quirks. My Wolverine-6K runs LPLs, even though it has LL quirks. The 33% less face time is godly with the damage LPL deals.

Sagamore, on 10 March 2015 - 12:58 AM, said:

It actually makes sense from a business stand-point. The Wubshee was becoming a very popular mech and therefore the quirks were moved to the paywall Banshee. I would be hesitant to buy "Man of La Mancha" knowing that the quirks could be adjusted (or changed entirely) if Large Pulses were your reason for buying it.

La Malinche is not a good mech. If you wanna talk about LPL paywall, then talk about THE ARROW. The tears of poor C-Bill BJ owners who got robbed of their LPL quirks....

Edited by El Bandito, 10 March 2015 - 01:45 AM.

[Macster16]

When they increased the GH limit to 3, I readjusted my 3M to use 3 LPLs + 3MLs for a 48 alpha with a STD350 engine. The build I admit was slightly better when it had LPL quirks due to the slightly less heat and slightly longer range. When the quirks were changed, I kept this build for my 3M as it's still an outstanding performer, just not quite as beastly as before.

[Mainhunter]

MLasers are a toy for assaults, don't understand why they force us by quirks to use them in a Banshee.