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The Flea According To Some People Quoting Developers Say It Isn't Possible.

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#81 Almond Brown

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 10:53 AM

View PostKristov Kerensky, on 11 March 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:


No, it's actually due to SC being clientside oriented while MWO is serverside, it makes things operate very different by changing who decides what is happening due to latency alone.

stuff


So not a fair comparison then? ;)

#82 Kristov Kerensky

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 11:10 AM

View PostAlmond Brown, on 12 March 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:


So not a fair comparison then? ;)


Mostly, yes, not a fair comparison, SC is allowing client auth as well as server auth, but it seems the main auth is client, at least from what I can pick up from the dev statements on the networking. And that may well change over time, they may well decide the client auth is too open to hacking or that it's player count limitation is just too low and go fully server auth, they've got a LOT of work to do on that system still, I wouldn't dare make a call on where they end up at this point. With the hybrid system they use currently, they've got issues with both player count limitations AND time delay issues, worst of both worlds :)

#83 Almond Brown

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 11:22 AM

View PostNextGame, on 12 March 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

So question for everyone regarding the flee and speed cap.

Either in Star Citizen, every ship will have an impenetrable lag shield wherever they go, and warp around dodging laser fire. Or is this engine limitation thing in MWO just an excuse that needs to go away?

I'm going to go out on a wild guess here and speculate that there are other cryengine titles where entities do indeed "gotta go fast" and don't suffer from the MWO problem.


Scale! If my MWO AC5 traveled at current speeds but the distances between "targets" was increase 75x, then hitting things (75 x 620m) = 46.5 km away would require more leading. (assuming you could even see the target)

Now let's "scale" things up to match.

Now, my target is still 46.5Km away but my new spiffy AC5 has been upgraded and now the projectile travels 82,650m/s. Guess what? What was 46.5km away a bit agao is now the same as 620m was before the "scale" change.

Scale has made things relative. One assumes that SC has also made their things work in their environment based on its scale. Seems a smart idea really. ;)

Edited by Almond Brown, 12 March 2015 - 11:23 AM.


#84 stjobe

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 03:37 PM

View PostFate 6, on 11 March 2015 - 12:55 PM, said:

No, the engine is definitely limited. Sure, PGI hasn't handled it super well, but unless you have a crazy budget like Star Citizen (which uses the same engine) it's very difficult to fix the shortcomings of the CryEngine.

Since you're not the first to read a bit more into my statement than is actually there, I'll just take this opportunity to clarify:

I'm sure there's all kinds of problems with CryEngine.

It does not, however, have a speed limit of 170 kph like the OP managed to make it sound. That particular limit is all on PGI, for good reasons or for bad (I've played since CB, so I know what MWO was like pre-HSR).

As Koniving alludes to above, the limit they've hit is due not to CryEngine, but to what PGI have done with CryEngine as well as rather a large number of bad design decisions made way back when. Speed Tweak, tripled rate of fire, hell, even the engine limits to name just a few.

There's plenty of ways to slow the game down should they so desire, but it's easier to blame the game engine, shrug your shoulders, and say "nothing we can do" than to actually fix the game.

In TT it was really hard to get a 'mech moving faster than about 12 hexes per turn (120 kph in MWO terms), even for lights. In MWO a 'mech going 120 kph will all of a sudden jump to 132 kph just by spending a bunch of XP. Why?

In TT you could only mount engines that were a multiple of your 'mech tonnage - an Atlas could mount exactly four engines, a 100, 200, 300, or 400-rated engine. In MWO it can mount 40 different engines from 200 to 400. Of course a lot of Atlases are going to be faster than their TT brethren, and it's the same on the other side of the tonnage spectrum; a TT Commando didn't run 171.1 kph, it ran 97.2 kph.

Why does the MWO Commando need to be almost twice as fast as the TT Commando?

Why do we even have this problem to begin with? Is it really because PGI chose CryEngine with it's built-in 170-kph speed limit? Would everything be flowers and unicorns and unlimited speeds if they'd only been able to afford Unreal Engine?

No, because CryEngine doesn't have such a limit. MWO has.

#85 Whatzituyah

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 01:45 PM

Ok by reading this topic we officially stated that its server side? If but whats not exactly established is whos fault it really is the engine or the people using the engine? Will the Flea ever be in the game I realize its technically a super light and that wouldn't be good in the game then if that is the case then I would like to see the clans at least get their Locust which I believe to be the Fire Moth not counting the IIC versions.

Feel free to say if there is another mech that closely resembles the locust speed in the clans various lights.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 13 March 2015 - 01:46 PM.


#86 stjobe

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 01:55 PM

View PostWhatzituyah, on 13 March 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

Ok by reading this topic we officially stated that its server side?

Yes. See any number of topics on Host State Rewind.

View PostWhatzituyah, on 13 March 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

If but whats not exactly established is whos fault it really is the engine or the people using the engine?

CryEngine is client-side authoritative out of the box, MWO is server-side authoritative by PGI's design. You do the math.

View PostWhatzituyah, on 13 March 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

Will the Flea ever be in the game

Magic 8-ball says "unlikely".

View PostWhatzituyah, on 13 March 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

I realize its technically a super light

No, it's technically the Locust, reworked to avoid Harmony Gold's commando-trained attack lawyers. Super-lights are 'mechs below 20 tons, the Flea weighs 20 tons. It's a light 'mech.

View PostWhatzituyah, on 13 March 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

and that wouldn't be good in the game

It would be about as good (or bad, as the case may be) as the Locust. Perhaps a bit better, since all the variants are energy-heavy.

View PostWhatzituyah, on 13 March 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

then if that is the case then I would like to see the clans at least get their locust which I believe to be the Fire moth not counting the IIC versions.

If we can't have the Flea due to it being too fast, why would you think we'd get an even faster 'mech? Stock, the Fire Moth does 162 kph, and with MASC activated 216 kph.

The Flea only goes 97 stock, 119 with MASC activated - which would be fine if PGI just set a lower max engine limit on it that made it top out at 170 *with* MASC.

But then they'd probably have to rein in all the other light 'mechs as well, which would force them to rein in the mediums, and that would force them to rein in the heavies, and finally the assaults.

And it's not looking very bright on them *ever* revisiting the speeds of 'mechs, even though in my opinion it would do wonders for the game.

Edited by stjobe, 13 March 2015 - 01:56 PM.


#87 Whatzituyah

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 02:00 PM

View Poststjobe, on 13 March 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

If we can't have the Flea due to it being too fast, why would you think we'd get an even faster 'mech? Stock, the Fire Moth does 162 kph, and with MASC activated 216 kph.

The Flea only goes 97 stock, 119 with MASC activated - which would be fine if PGI just set a lower max engine limit on it that made it top out at 170 *with* MASC.

But then they'd probably have to rein in all the other light 'mechs as well, which would force them to rein in the mediums, and that would force them to rein in the heavies, and finally the assaults.

And it's not looking very bright on them *ever* revisiting the speeds of 'mechs, even though in my opinion it would do wonders for the game.


Well I did say feel free to suggest another mech that is just as fast as a Locust max engine for the clans they really need one.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 13 March 2015 - 02:00 PM.


#88 Kristov Kerensky

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 02:05 PM

View PostWhatzituyah, on 13 March 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:


Well I did say feel free to suggest another mech that is just as fast as a Locust max engine for the clans they really need one.



We're getting the Arctic Cheetah, which is a much faster Clan Light than anything already in game for the Clans. Most Clan Lights aren't all that fast, Clan protocols are different than the IS protocols when it comes to what a Recon Mech is, they don't feel the need to shoot and scoot as deeply, it goes against their overall attitude towards combat, which is something to be desired, not avoided. That said, they do understand the need for intel and have a few Lights like the Arctic Cheetah that are good for shoot and scoot.

#89 Alex Morgaine

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 02:32 PM

Darn, there were some interesting possibilities for the flea too, including the 15 ton jj varient (I checked the TT build rules, aside from more structure(lol) it'd have the same stats if it was upscaled to 20 tons, with armor, jj#, and weapons untouched, adjusted engine size for tonnage, everything would mechanically be identical in performance to the 15 ton.





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