106 replies to this topic

[KraftySOT]

Yeah theres some neat things you can do if you manage the ai a tad, though in the campaign im finding it to be more than adequete so far.

The enemies have the right balance between taking chances and not doing anything that could result in hilarity, and go the places they need to do and attack the things they need to attack. Some are slightly more cautious or more throwing it entirely to the wind, but that just helps the immersion really.

Its not GREAT ai, but it isnt bad.

I mean it wont be doing any going prone and shooting at you, or getting tree trunk clubs to pound on you when you fall over, but it does actively try and stop you from rolling over it.

In my game when the who outgunned who situation switched, so did their behavior.

It just cant think from turn to turn, it takes every turn as if thats the only turn its going to take. If it can ever think ACROSS turns, it would be very difficult to beat evenly matched BV wise.

Techorse, on 11 March 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

So the bots themselves have controls for that. Cool.

I also need to go and figure out the HQ software for keeping track of everything. Might be cool to play around with Megamek's features more. I was just lance on lance DM'ing with it.

Yeah read up these:

http://bg.battletech...e-bot-thread-3/

http://bg.battletech...gainst-the-bot/

The documentation is in there some where. As well as a primer of how to set up a campaign and get started. It takes a little bit to figure out how to travel to the world of the contract you accept (its some needless clicks) and how to deploy a unit to 'fight' or 'scout' or whatever in missions, but once you get that down, and you have a campaign set up well, its fairly hands off.

Once or twice ive had to /skip an AI that was freaking out and couldnt find where to go, like it got bogged down in a marsh, and couldnt figure out it didnt have the MP to get out. So it got caught and you have to type /skip in the little chat window.

Alot of the bugs are getting quashed pretty rapidly tho.

[Koniving]

KraftySOT, on 11 March 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

Once or twice ive had to /skip an AI that was freaking out and couldnt find where to go, like it got bogged down in a marsh, and couldnt figure out it didnt have the MP to get out. So it got caught and you have to type /skip in the little chat window.

Alot of the bugs are getting quashed pretty rapidly tho.

Split the AI units across multiple bots and they become a LOT faster and smarter.
A single bot will bog down easily with lots of units. Just remember to put them on the same team.

You should try bot versus bot matches, with multiple bots and two teams.

I did this with testing the Patlabor-inspired security mechs of the No-Window variety (torso mounted cockpit setting; no outside visibility just cameras and screens) against the windowed variety (industrial or standard cockpits).

Each bot had a pilot with a specific personality; both sides had identical bots and pilot personalities.


(The two control units in the Coopers are delayed to come in after 30 turns to keep a stalemate game from occurring and controlled by me.).

(SM-Temps are Windows/cockpit glass team. TorsoMountedUpgrade are Monitors team).

The battle progressed.

In the end it was Ota of the Monitors team (guy crazy about guns but a horrendous clutz; nicknamed Insurance Nightmare and callsign 'Slip' to commemorate the epic skid across 90 meters, slamming into a building falling into a basement, etc.) versus the Cockpit Glass team members Noa (piloting prodigy that is reluctant to use guns but excels in melee) and Themba (middle ground; missile specialist. Problem is the SRM-2 is loaded with smoke rounds since Tear Gas ammo is not yet in Megamek).

Remember each team had the same 3 pilots and 3 mechs of their distinctive versions.

Smoke missiles blind Ota, preventing him from being able to fire. The recently fallen Noa of the Monitors team had managed to eject. (Prior to this, the Themba of the Monitor's team had ejected but he was on the other side of the field). Ota sprinted (preventing accurate firing) toward the friendly Noa and picked her up. From there he returned fire at the enemy Noa.

He then retreated with a few more sprints, making his way for trees. The trees began soaking half the damage fired at him. There, he let the aim penalties lower and 'stepped' out to fire at the closest enemy. He scored a through armor critical on MG ammo, sending the enemy Noa into the air.

Ota then rushed past Window Themba, taking smoke rounds and MG fire along the way. He tripped in some marshes, but manages to make it to pick up the allied Themba.

With one enemy mech, one enemy pilot that's armed... and two hands full of pilots he's trying to save, he's now at a point where he refuses to fight. Why? He's incredibly brash/brave. He's gungho and doesn't think before he acts (takes extreme risks), but he will not risk shooting with a pilot in each hand!

Finally he loses a hand actuator, causing him to drop a pilot. This happened to free the hand with the guns, and he became gungho and ready to fight again.

Ultimately it's his MG versus 2 MGs, so despite his superior position (protected by CT armor instead of head armor), Monitors Ota eventually falls in battle.

Still, one of the coolest demonstrations from the bots I've seen.
--------
Another one, also an oldie...
3 King Crabs versus 3 Novas.
Despite Battle Value the King Crabs were far superior with their higher pinpoint damage (despite having LBXs; their PPCs really gave them a superior edge).

It doesn't help that Novas have no pelvises, so with mech quirks turned on if they lose an ST they lose an arm and a leg at the same time. In this case they kept getting Gyro shots. Down to my last mech, double gyro shots. They formed a triangle around my Nova.

SRM. PPC. SRM. LBX. LBX. PPC. SRM. PPC. LBX. SRM. PPC. LBX. LBX. PPC. PPC. LBX. SRM. SRM.

All that was left of my mech was 1 CT structure, all other limbs destroyed, the engine had every single crit destroyed, the gyro had all crits destroyed, and the pilot shredded by LBX fire.

Princess can be cruel.

Edited by Koniving, 11 March 2015 - 05:52 PM.

[Koniving]

Techorse, on 11 March 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

I also need to go and figure out the HQ software for keeping track of everything. Might be cool to play around with Megamek's features more. I was just lance on lance DM'ing with it.

Make certain to check the Campaign Options before you start. All the options for keeping track of stuff is OFF by default, you need to go through checking all the boxes in the financials tab.

[BourbonFaucet]

Koniving, on 11 March 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

Make certain to check the Campaign Options before you start. All the options for keeping track of stuff is OFF by default, you need to go through checking all the boxes in the financials tab.

Great tip Koniving, thanks!

[KraftySOT]

You might want to go a few months without that stuff enabled in your first go. You can change the options at any time, usually with no funkiness. Just dont change the % of female to male pilots from the starting setting. Youll get bad names.

Also if for some crazy reason your mission crashes on the first turn, make sure no names have umlets or crazy characters, thats usually the problem. Theres still some bad names in the lists, which are insanely long and time consuming to go through.

[KraftySOT]

In honor of Dragon Bowling ™ and the Wasp which met a physically induced death here is this for an overnight intermission.

[BourbonFaucet]

edit: Got everything working. Figured out how to get MekHQ with the latest megamek version. Looks fun!

Edited by Techorse, 11 March 2015 - 10:31 PM.

[Xtrekker]

Entertaining! Thanks for the thread Krafty.

[STEF_]

WOW!
I quit playing megamek too much time ago....

But this thread..... heheeh... now an inner fire burns from inside

Just a question: my dream was to play with megamek those fasa campaigns I played in real TT, such as Galtor, Black Widow's scenarios, Kell hounds, Twycross, etc.: has anyone prepared those scenarios and campaigns ready to play?

(I hope the answer will be yes....'cause I'm quite lazy )

[nitra]

This thread makes me sad. i wish we had just half of what was illustrated in this mega mech battle.

I guess its because of the difficulty envolved in trying to implement such systems and i should be thankful for what we do have .

but i keep wondering when will we actually have a game that mixes the action of MWO and the deep gameplay of this megamech?

it seems like the wait is a eternity.

[Koniving]

nitra, on 12 March 2015 - 01:04 AM, said:

This thread makes me sad. i wish we had just half of what was illustrated in this mega mech battle.

I guess its because of the difficulty envolved in trying to implement such systems and i should be thankful for what we do have .

but i keep wondering when will we actually have a game that mixes the action of MWO and the deep gameplay of this megamech?

it seems like the wait is a eternity.

I think the point of the thread, is we don't have even a fraction of this stuff in MWO... and that "MWO doesn't have enough Battletech" in it.

So if it's making you sad about that, then I think the thread is serving its purpose. The upset fans and the "2% on an island" have been going on about this for a few years now.

Lets hope it changes.

*Rushes out the door to work.* Be back later today!

[Impyrium]

Wow. So... that was the most fun I've had in a long while. Somewhat got my head around MekHQ and touched up on the campaign rules, and I spent some time rolling up a 'proper' merc unit according to the manual.

Not that I think I got anything right, in fact I don't get the founding members element at all, and thanks to the dice somehow I ended up with multiple green light lances and a singular assault lance, plus supporting armour and infantry. And a wing of AeroSpace I don't even understand the rules to yet.

Buuuut I did make it to my first contract, a garrison contracted by Marik against the Lyrans. Which looked to be off to a terrible start since I discovered the hard way how the deployment system works and had to defend a small clearing in the middle of a swamp with four light vehicles and a supporting Phoenix Hawk. Against a light lance of BattleMechs and supporting armour.

Mind you, my veteran Major in his Hetzer had a lot of fun inserting AC20 rounds into enemies and I had no idea the AI was capable of dodging around my turret-less tank to avoid its firing arc. Which is why it was so incredibly satisfying when the enemy Lyran Griffin got itself stuck in the swamp and ate a AC20 to the CT.

Though... does the missions end based on conditions? Because I thought I was supposed to destroy 50% of the enemy force by ten turns in but nothing seems to be ending.

Anyways. Won't hijack this thread, but thank you so much for getting me to try this again. Having a blast even playing solo.

EDIT: Actually, wow. I'm really impressed with how the AI is even now. I seem to remember the AI being pretty brain dead in that it was pretty much concerned only with the complete and utter annihilation of the enemy team, but I've seen it intelligently (relatively) dodge arcs, make use of elevated areas, advance, retreat and completely fall back when a unit becomes crippled.

Edited by AUSwarrior24, 12 March 2015 - 04:53 AM.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

AUSwarrior24, on 12 March 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

EDIT: Actually, wow. I'm really impressed with how the AI is even now. I seem to remember the AI being pretty brain dead in that it was pretty much concerned only with the complete and utter annihilation of the enemy team, but I've seen it intelligently (relatively) dodge arcs, make use of elevated areas, advance, retreat and completely fall back when a unit becomes crippled.

They've added a layer to the AI in megamek with certain properties that you can adjust that determine a bots fanatacism or its likelyhood of retreating, and other such personality variables. IIRC, the campaigns mostly randomize those.

[Mercules]

Koniving, on 11 March 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

Awesome and that's what I thought of too. Considering the page the story was written on was from 1987 -- I wonder if Zoidberg's escape cry was a tribute or reference of sorts?

I think both were a tribute... to Curly of the Three Stooges. Billy West has even said that some of Zoidberg's actions are based on the Three Stooges.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Really why don't they have pilots you level in MWO, where you can pick different attributes/skills, that might break up the meta a bit.
High heat in a mech, might make your guy pass out, or slow down your torso turn speed, Cover skill using indicator like "Thief" had where it lights up/dims showing you if the game recognizes it, then allow mechs to "take cover" behind some objects/barriers for reduced damage (LIKE THE ONES IN CW THAT GET IN MY GD WAY) but they cannot move or bonus goes away

Having 4 different pilots might also change how CW works depending on if they could make a vast pilot skill tree to really separate the mechs.
Even not thinking of possibilities
1 Pilot with centurion focus might get a bonus to AC20 not arcing as much when fired where another might have an ability to pick a "shield arm" where if the torso next to that arm takes damage, some of that damage gets transferred to the arm instead.

[Koniving]

Mercules, on 12 March 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

I think both were a tribute... to Curly of the Three Stooges. Billy West has even said that some of Zoidberg's actions are based on the Three Stooges.

Never genuinely seen a full episode of The Three Stooges, but now that you mention it I've seen them do lots of goofy sounds like that.

Wonder if Curly did that while escaping or running away? Huh, heh.

[Almond Brown]

Having played MegaMek and the like, I always marvel when I see "MWO has a steep learning curve" LOL. Now TT based games.... They got real Curve..

[KraftySOT]

Still at the studio, not looking good for a whole match today, ill try and get the repairs and any hirings or admin stuff just as soon as I get home. Just doing a match, especially when I want to get someone to play the opfor, takes a few hours and I just dont think ill have it today.

Drummers dude.

Youre the only person who cant **** up during tracking. The only person. Get your **** together become you come in.

[KraftySOT]

Koniving, on 12 March 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

Never genuinely seen a full episode of The Three Stooges, but now that you mention it I've seen them do lots of goofy sounds like that.

Wonder if Curly did that while escaping or running away? Huh, heh.

Matt Goering is a genius for seeing the value in this and putting it to something so generation defying as Futurama.

That entire era of the three stooges, sci fi magazine, comic books, rockets to ursa major, was my fathers generation. Futurama besides just being a hilarious cartoon for kids, also has an immense amount of 'lore' that it draws from in the 40s and 50s. The number of hidden things in it is mindblowing. From the obvious "Bradbury Hotel" to the obscure "Minor Pain in my Ursa Major" type references.

Its just such a great show.

Yeaaars down the road im still finding new things in Futurama.

[Koniving]

KraftySOT, on 12 March 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

It's official:
Howard did hit his head on his ejection out of the Locust. Even with the pain of his arm and leg being ripped off during ejection, there's no way someone would be that looney.

...."Locust pilots are the weirdest."