46 replies to this topic

[Lordred]

The Flamers and Jump Jets on Clan mechs are fixed hard-points.

I for one like this, and there are plenty of others who do as well. So I ask in the sake of ballance, Afix Flamers and Jump Jets on IS mechs in the same manner.


Mechs affected by such a change.

Lights:
Commando 3A
Spiders
Firestarter All
Jenners
Raven 4X / Huginn
Panthers

Mediums:
Cicada 2B
Blackjack 1/1X/3/Arrow
Vindicators
Enforcers
Trebuchet 5J/7M/Loup De Guerre
Shadowhawks
Wolverine 6R/7K

Heavies:
Quickdraws
Catapult A1/C1/C4/Jester
Thunderbolt 5SS/9S/9SE
Cataphract 3D

Assaults:
Victors
Highlanders


Thank you for your time

[TheSilken]

+1 support

[Sug]

What would be the point?

[FupDup]

Sug, on 10 March 2015 - 07:00 PM, said:

What would be the point?

To completely kill off several mech variants, of course.


EDIT:
Oh, and by the way Lordred, Clan Flamers are only hardwired to the Badder. Every other Clan Flamer is modular as usual.

Edited by FupDup, 10 March 2015 - 07:01 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Is this a "fix flamers" thread?
Or a "lets screw over the IS a little more " thread?

[FupDup]

Mister D, on 10 March 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

Is this a "fix flamers" thread?
Or a "lets screw over the IS a little more " thread?

To be fair, I don't think he consciously realizes the damage it would inflict.

[luxebo]

No... don't force fix them. Instead, fix them via balance. That way there is a point to take flamers/more than one JJ.

[Lordred]

FupDup, on 10 March 2015 - 07:01 PM, said:

To completely kill off several mech variants, of course.

Hi FupDup.


Pumas, Koshies, Blackhawks, Thors, MAD-CAT(S)s are not 'killed' off. I even saw plenty of Daishi owners jump at getting the -S so they could use their hoverjets.

FupDup, on 10 March 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

To be fair, I don't think he consciously realizes the damage it would inflict.

I realize exactly what it would do, I do not however think it would be as dramatic as people would make out.


Anyways It is just another one of my ideas. As always, you are free to like, or dislike.

Thanks.

Edited by Lordred, 10 March 2015 - 07:08 PM.

[Whatzituyah]

I heard someone say there is a upgrade for clans in Battletech that allows to remove a fixed weapon on the mech but I don't know what it would be looking through sarna.

[FupDup]

Lordred, on 10 March 2015 - 07:06 PM, said:

Hi FupDup.


Pumas, Koshies, Blackhawks, Thors, MAD-CAT(S)s are not 'killed' off. I even saw plenty of Daishi owners jump at getting the -S so they could use their hoverjets.


Anyways It is just another one of my ideas. As always, you are free to like, or dislike.

Thanks.

Are those mechs listed above IS mechs that have to use IS ghetto tech? Oh, they're not. They don't get the benefits of Clan goodies like Clan XL, Endo, lasers, etc. Also, they're Omnimechs instead of Battlemechs. Different construction rules.

The IS having more customization is by far the primary balancing pillar between the Clans and the IS. It's one of the few decisive advantages that the IS has. Even then, the few "perfect storm" Clan Omnis that coincidentally have optimized base chassis (i.e. Mad Cat, Doomcrow primarily) still beat the IS anyways.


Beyond that, some mech variants would just outright get slaughtered by this. Firestarters in particular, with around 4 hardwired Flamers on most variants, would just put the Jenner back as the best light. Every IS mech with JJs in general would lose a chunk of their payload for not all that much gain.


It seems like you want to do this change just for the sake of doing it. It doesn't really have any specific benefit other than "just because."

Whatzituyah, on 10 March 2015 - 07:12 PM, said:

I heard someone say there is a upgrade for clans in Battletech that allows to remove a fixed weapon on the mech but I don't know what it would be looking through sarna.

You'd need a refit kit and you'd end up losing the Omnipod powers in exchange. It would turn your Omni into a Battlemech.

[Glaive-]

Can't tell if troll thread..

[FupDup]

armyunit, on 10 March 2015 - 07:13 PM, said:

Can't tell if troll thread..

What's sad is that it's actually not. He's totes serious, which scares me. Please hold me.

Edited by FupDup, 10 March 2015 - 07:15 PM.

[Whatzituyah]

FupDup, on 10 March 2015 - 07:13 PM, said:

Are those mechs listed above IS mechs that have to use IS ghetto tech? Oh, they're not. They don't get the benefits of Clan goodies like Clan XL, Endo, lasers, etc. Also, they're Omnimechs instead of Battlemechs. Different construction rules.

The IS having more customization is by far the primary balancing pillar between the Clans and the IS. It's one of the few decisive advantages that the IS has. Even then, the few "perfect storm" Clan Omnis that coincidentally have optimized base chassis (i.e. Mad Cat, Doomcrow primarily) still beat the IS anyways.


Beyond that, some mech variants would just outright get slaughtered by this. Firestarters in particular, with around 4 hardwired Flamers on most variants, would just put the Jenner back as the best light. Every IS mech with JJs in general would lose a chunk of their payload for not all that much gain.


It seems like you want to do this change just for the sake of doing it. It doesn't really have any specific benefit other than "just because."


You'd need a refit kit and you'd end up losing the Omnipod powers in exchange. It would turn your Omni into a Battlemech.

Well there you go if you want to remove that hard point the only way to do so is to make it a battlemech some of them just cant afford to do that.

[Lordred]

FupDup, on 10 March 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

What's sad is that it's actually not. He's totes serious, which scares me. Please hold me.

/hold /hug

I am Totes serious. But you need not fear, for Paul and Russ do not check the forums, and I am not so much as a horrible person as to E-mail them or try to get their attention. I just only wanted to share what goes on in my demented head with you all.

As always,

Thanks.

[luxebo]

Lordred, on 10 March 2015 - 07:06 PM, said:

Pumas, Koshies, Blackhawks, Thors, MAD-CAT(S)s are not 'killed' off. I even saw plenty of Daishi owners jump at getting the -S so they could use their hoverjets.

A lot of these mechs were deliberated when they forced JJ/flamer hardpoints (especially the Puma), which affected their overall performance. Same as the active probe, same as endo/ferro versus not having em. The two that really benefited from the JJ locking was the Mad Cat and Dire Wolf, as the DW needed that extra mobility (which basically was a straight upgrade only as two JJs, not more/less taking too much tonnage), and the Timber had the option of only allowing a pair of JJs (or a single one) to use, not that entire set of 5 every time.

As Fupdup said, the IS mechs would take a huge huge huge huge huge hit from this. I don't want to run ol' BJ-1X my first trial mech played. 4 Flamers 4 MLs. Looked cool but then I realized 10 damage wasn't very good. (Graphic issues were there too but it was just bad to have stock mechs out stuck with Flamers/JJs).

But regardless, at least you made your point/view, etc. We may not agree but maybe some day you'll get a godly idea (and I know you will have one or two in you ), and PGI might actually implement it (we know PGI won't implement something like this or people would rage so hard on the flamers, not gonna be fun for the mods.)

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

No.

Instead, fix Flamers and JJs functionally. Then, locked JJs and Flamers won't be the curse that they tend to be currently.

For JJs, PGI needs to do several things:

1 - Make the initial take-off meaningful. Have all the of the upward motion occur during lift off, and have it happen quickly. Have the vertical distance scale based on the number of JJs (say, 5m per JJ? It'd have to be balanced according to live performance).

2 - After the initial jump, your fuel reserves should scale based on the number of JJs, allowing more JJs to feather better and to get more horizontal distance out of a jump.

3 - So long as you are actively burning your JJs you should have significant precision deviation, which should decay while your JJs are off (but not instantly stop).

For Flamers, they should be entirely reworked, based on MechCommander's implementation.

5 damage, 5 heat, 90/90 range, 5s cooldown, 3 heat to target. They fire a single burst of concentrated flame, functioning similarly to PPCs, but with a super short range.

Do the above and Flamers have a unique and useful place in the weapon lists, while JJs become useful once more for mobility without restoring poptarting to dominance.

[Wintersdark]

This is another of those ideas that i suspect has background motivation, but to which I cannot grasp said motivation.

So... Why do this? It's generally bad to change things Just Because Reasons.

[Lordred]

FupDup, on 10 March 2015 - 07:01 PM, said:

EDIT:
Oh, and by the way Lordred, Clan Flamers are only hardwired to the Badder. Every other Clan Flamer is modular as usual.

Ninja Edit, didnt see.

That is because the Puma is the only clan mech/veriant with a Flamer from the get-go in game currently.


Now if I were to errata my idea to simply locking Jump Jets (Hover Tech) only, would you be more admissible to the idea?

[Whatzituyah]

Wintersdark, on 10 March 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:

This is another of those ideas that i suspect has background motivation, but to which I cannot grasp said motivation.

So... Why do this? It's generally bad to change things Just Because Reasons.

You mean like how a JJ Direwolf cant jump over things half his size?

[luxebo]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 10 March 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:

5 damage, 5 heat, 90/90 range, 5s cooldown, 3 heat to target. They fire a single burst of concentrated flame, functioning similarly to PPCs, but with a super short range.

Mad Dragon pls . ECM vulture boating Flamers doing more damage than any Streak/ASRM spammer. Seriously though both fixes should be here. Make JJs and flamers useful PGI.

Only JJs, even then it would hit a lot of targets badly on the IS side with too many JJs in them at once.

Edited by luxebo, 10 March 2015 - 07:27 PM.