40 replies to this topic

[Agent CraZy DiP]

Bloodweaver, on 01 July 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

Yes, but the definition depends on the source. For example, if you're a fighter pilot, another plane several thousand feet below or behind you would still be in "your" line of sight, because it's understood that in such a case the "your" is really referring more to the plane to you yourself.

I don't think actual visual confirmation will be needed for the more specific information, although it will obviously be required for missile lock. The Devs have stated such information will come in sequentially, i.e. the longer you maintain target lock, the more info you'll get on the enemy's status. Not saying it should or shouldn't be that way, just saying I don't think it will based on the information we've been given.

Heading, however, should not be visual-dependent at all... It's just a calculation of the target's position and movement vector. Both are picked up by sensors. Frankly, it's not even necessary, since Mechwarrior sensor systems display target positions continually, rather than in pings. Torso direction, on the other hand, would make sense...

I think we have a whole other post developing here. What additional info would someone like to see on displayed on the HUD? Also, should they be modules that you unlock for the recon class? Torso direction could come in handy when you want to round a corner, but you want to do it when the Atlas isn't looking towards you.

[Mchawkeye]

Hmmm...well this is where I'm getting my ideas from;

From dev blog 2:

Quote

So how do you gather LOSD information? Well there are several ways.

• Direct – You can see the target directly (LOSD).
  
• Radar – Your radar can detect a target in a predetermined arc, also LOSD.
  
• Satellite Scan – Orbital scan of the battlefield, highly efficient however still limited to top-down LOSD.
  
• UAV – Similar to a Sat Scan, but localized to a specific area on the battlefield.
  
• Detectors – Dropped off on the battlefield.
  
• Units – Any non-BattleMech present on the battlefield.

Radar is also line of sight dependant, in an arc, which to me suggests probably not to the rear. I would expect targets detected by other sources to appear on your radar. I can only assume\suggest that this predetermined arc can be altered with modules.
As they have said before, they are trying to limit the amount of radar and targeting information to make roles like scouting and general team work more valid.

[Bloodweaver]

I guess I missed that bit about the detection arc. Sounds good to me, though... maybe. I think one should be able to detect enemy Mechs at any position around your own within, say, 200 meters. It seems like it would take out some of the immersion for a Commando to be circle-strafing around you and having him pop in and out of your radar display even though he's ten meters away...

Edited by Bloodweaver, 01 July 2012 - 09:46 PM.

[InPhase]

even if you had a small HUD monitor you could toggle on/off would be nice. Not having a rear view is a little bit rediculous in something that can easily hit the 6M+ mark in cbills

[Mchawkeye]

Bloodweaver, on 01 July 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

I guess I missed that bit about the detection arc. Sounds good to me, though... maybe. I think one should be able to detect enemy Mechs at any position around your own within, say, 200 meters. It seems like it would take out some of the immersion for a Commando to be circle-strafing around you and having him pop in and out of your radar display even though he's ten meters away...

true that. though as far as I know, information and detection will decay/fade out rather than just blip off, so if the Commando is circle strafing you, you should have time to acquire the target your self before he disappears from view.

Personally, I quite like it. I like the fact that you should be able to turn your Raven into the information gathering electronic GWACs. or pull those modules and specialise differently; it will, hopefully, encourage team play and communication which makes it a whole different experience to mechwarrior with out removing\downplaying the essential big-guns-go-boom aspects

InPhase, on 01 July 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

even if you had a small HUD monitor you could toggle on/off would be nice. Not having a rear view is a little bit rediculous in something that can easily hit the 6M+ mark in cbills

I agree. But then, this is a game and compromises must be made. But you never know.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

I'd love to see rear mounted weapons. Its not like they don't exist.
And I keep hearing all this "rely on your team/be aware"
As far as I know, you can still run passive. (Probably make the camera an actual add on for balance issues. Takes a slot, weight, make it destroyable, maybe only make in mountable on certain mechs)
And you can never convince me that under every possible situation theres a friendly that see's whats behind you.


And I wasn't all the specific in the OP, in a nut shell, I want something like this: (Toggle-able, of course)

[Fire and Salt]

I remember there was a rear looking camera in mw4, as well as a downward looking camera....


The downward looking camera was a necessity for DFA when you were starting in a high place, like a rooftop.


I hope we get them both.

[Reoh]

Agent CraZy DiP, on 01 July 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

Can't you put Light MGs in the back of your legs? I sweat I remember doing this in the TT at some point in time.

There are no rear-facing weapons in MWO. Any mechs with such had them flipped to fire forwards.

I'm not in the beta, and if I was I couldn't say anyway... but it occurs to me that Mechs have more sensors than just the mechwarriors eyeballs. It's not without reason that a mech (or one with scout MOS and appropriate modules \ beagle active probe) would be able to detect mechs nearby so long as they weren't obstructed by means other than their own sight.

[edit]

Apparentl there's a radar "ARC" I hadn't read anything about that before, nm.

Edited by Reoh, 03 July 2012 - 10:15 AM.

[Viper69]

Some mechs with no lower arm actuators ala the Warhammer and Madcat typically could rotate their gun barrels to the rear while while facing the front. At least that is why in the books they had arms built that way.

The awesome was specifically designed to fight that way. That is why its front armor is equal to its rear armor, it could march in to combat firing and turn around and rotate its arms and fire behind it while retreating if necessary.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

Viper69, on 03 July 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

The awesome was specifically designed to fight that way. That is why its front armor is equal to its rear armor, it could march in to combat firing and turn around and rotate its arms and fire behind it while retreating if necessary.

I would love to see this implemented in.

[Reoh]

Viper69, on 03 July 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

Some mechs with no lower arm actuators ala the Warhammer and Madcat typically could rotate their gun barrels to the rear while while facing the front. At least that is why in the books they had arms built that way.

The awesome was specifically designed to fight that way. That is why its front armor is equal to its rear armor, it could march in to combat firing and turn around and rotate its arms and fire behind it while retreating if necessary.

Could they, was that some special rule?

They also had additional to hit modifiers because they had less arm mobility.

[Viper69]

Yes there were rules for it. It was if i remember correctly the same modifier for firing a rear facing weapon. I will look for some rules and post it. If I am incorrect tell me.

[Viper69]

Copied from:http://www.theagency...viewtopic&t=753




Reversing (Flipping) Arms

’Mechs constructed without hand and lower arm actuators in both arms can flip their arms over and fire backward. This ability only applies to ’Mechs originally constructed without those actuators (or OmniMechs that remove their hand and lower-arm actuators for a certain confi guration), not ’Mechs that lose them due to critical damage.

A ’Mech that intends to reverse its arm-mounted weapons must flip both arms during weapon attack declaration. This maneuver takes the place of a torso twist (a ’Mech cannot torso twist and reverse its arms simultaneously). After flipping its arms, the ’Mech may then fire any arm-mounted weapon into the rear firing arc instead of the usual firing arcs for those weapons. The one exception to this rule occurs if weapons are split between the arm and torso; while the arms can still flip to fire weapons that do not have a split location, split-location weapons can only fire into the front arc.

If a ’Mech that can reverse its arms loses one during a game, it can still reverse the remaining arm. During the End Phase, reversed arms automatically return to the standard front arc. Prone ’Mechs and ProtoMechs: Neither of these units may

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

Viper69, on 03 July 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

Copied from:http://www.theagency...viewtopic&t=753




Reversing (Flipping) Arms

’Mechs constructed without hand and lower arm actuators in both arms can flip their arms over and fire backward. This ability only applies to ’Mechs originally constructed without those actuators (or OmniMechs that remove their hand and lower-arm actuators for a certain confi guration), not ’Mechs that lose them due to critical damage.

A ’Mech that intends to reverse its arm-mounted weapons must flip both arms during weapon attack declaration. This maneuver takes the place of a torso twist (a ’Mech cannot torso twist and reverse its arms simultaneously). After flipping its arms, the ’Mech may then fire any arm-mounted weapon into the rear firing arc instead of the usual firing arcs for those weapons. The one exception to this rule occurs if weapons are split between the arm and torso; while the arms can still flip to fire weapons that do not have a split location, split-location weapons can only fire into the front arc.

If a ’Mech that can reverse its arms loses one during a game, it can still reverse the remaining arm. During the End Phase, reversed arms automatically return to the standard front arc. Prone ’Mechs and ProtoMechs: Neither of these units may

Am I the only one that would love to see this implemented?
It would give a nice twist to the gameplay while still sticking to the lore.

[Reoh]

Z0MBIE Y0SHI, on 04 July 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

Am I the only one that would love to see this implemented?
It would give a nice twist to the gameplay while still sticking to the lore.

Nope.

But at this point, I should probably concede that my opinion is biased on account of wanting to sneak up behind big mechs and hit'em in their blind spot as a light\medeum. The idea is kinda cool but concerns me over the viability of one of my favorite play styles.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

Reoh, on 04 July 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

Nope.

But at this point, I should probably concede that my opinion is biased on account of wanting to sneak up behind big mechs and hit'em in their blind spot as a light\medeum. The idea is kinda cool but concerns me over the viability of one of my favorite play styles.

I dont think it would be 2 game breaking, pretty sure if they put this in it would be a lengthy process, not to mention its not exactly an auto aim, and not all mechs would be able to do it. They could also make it so it requires additional parts so it would force players to take a little off their over all firepower, which would result with not everyone doing it.
But I do understand where your coming from.

Edited by Z0MBIE Y0SHI, 04 July 2012 - 09:54 AM.

[Reoh]

Z0MBIE Y0SHI, on 04 July 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

I dont think it would be 2 game breaking, pretty sure if they put this in it would be a lengthy process, not to mention its not exactly an auto aim, and not all mechs would be able to do it. They could also make it so it requires additional parts so it would force players to take a little off their over all firepower, which would result with not everyone doing it.
But I do understand where your coming from.

Ahh I was envisioning it just off the core ruleset. Mechs with no hand\lower actuators can flip their arms around. A lot of big mechs have some big guns in their arms that made them drop those.

[Viper69]

All I know is try battling an Awesome on table top BT and you will see how powerful a mech with equal armor front and rear and rotating arms can be.

I do not think it would be game breaking as controls would be reversed and it would take some manner of skill to actually perform this feat.

[CmdrSpider]

Ah arguement for arguement sake (better known a trolling). No real point here since we don't have reward facing weapons. A couple of thoughts though; in the table top battletech game LOS simply meant that there was nothing standing between you and the other mech (i.e. trees, hills, etc.). So perhaps it should have been called Weapons Line of Sight (WLOS).

Looking toward the future though anything is possible and it will be the devs making the decision. Someone help me but I seem to remember in the Battletech novels reading where the mechs or at least some mechs I think it was a clan mech (I might be mistaken) had a vision screen that had a compressed 360 degree image. Allowing the mechwarriror to see the entire battlefield (even if somewhat scrunched), which is not how I want to play the game.

So how about we all refocus our energies.

Edited by CmdrSpider, 05 July 2012 - 10:02 AM.

[Urban UK]

Line of sight means a direct line from your mech to the target, not from your eyes to the target lol

Its a thousand years in the future the mechs are going to be covered in sensors all around, there not going to rely on what the human can see to obtain targeting

A rear view camera IMHO would come as a standard fitting, and heck if it didn't I would fit one, I could buy a wireless one with a screen now for about £50 and it wouldn't add tons to my weight lol

Can't believe some of the reasons people are coming up with against having this, get real lol

On another note concerning rear view mirror, if we get it, I'd like to be able to show it on my tablet/spare screen

Edited by Urban UK, 05 July 2012 - 10:34 AM.