34 replies to this topic

[GrizzlyViking]

The current attack phases are inadequate due to the limitations of the 3 Cease Fire (CF) times. The current CF times exclude many players from being able to contribute in more significant ways due to CF times being inconvenient for the average player in various time zones over the world. For example, the current North American CF time starts at approximately 1:15 A.M. EDT, which is 10:15 P.M. PDT. As I mentioned previously, back when the current CF times were implemented, this CF time is ideal for those on the West Coast, but for the East Cost, where much of the MWO player base lives, it is extremely inconvenient. PGI asked us East Coasters to suck it up when they set the CF at 12:15 A.M. and we did. It is clear now that PGI didn't even consider the pending DST time causing our CF time to be 1:15 A.M. The unintended consequences of the current CF time limitations are a dwindling CW player base. East Coast players are not as interested in attacking planets that they cannot see through to the end.

All that said I have some questions for PGI, why can't we have more CF times? Why do all planets have to adhere to the same CF schedule? Why do we only have one planet that we attack per Attack Phase? Can we have more than one planet to attack at a time? If so, can we have several attackable planets with varying CF times to give every significant time zone in the world an 11:15 P.M. CF time? Are there other options for how a planet is conquered?...Does it have to be only 8 or 15 zones? Could a planet be three 15 zone regions? Could a planet be 9 zones? Could CF time be days/weeks for some planets and 2-3 hours for others?

Of course I don't expect answers to all of these questions (some, but not all). There are solutions to the CF time problem in the answers to these and similar questions, so PGI I am challenging you to come up with some good answers please.

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 11 March 2015 - 08:11 AM.

[MahKraah]

any time restrictions will always be gameplay restrictions for someone somewhere.
why doesnt a planet switch ownership if your faction holds above 50% for 24h, uninterupted? resetting when ever it falls below.

[Funkmaster Rick]

I do wonder if the ceasefire time isn't so some poor technician can manually adjust the ownership of any planets that were attacked. Maybe there's no algorithm and it's just some intern.

[Surn]

So in effect, you are asking that each planet have different lengths for a day? Twenty four hour day cycles are standard, but some planets rotate at different speeds, so they should have different cease fire schedules.

Each planet then gets a rotation time property and ceasefires occur x times a day but based on a variable day length.

This may not solve time zone issues per say, but there would always be planets approaching cease fire in every time zone.

Edited by MechregSurn, 11 March 2015 - 09:46 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Attack phases need to be thrown out entirely and go to a 24 hour clock and base victory off of a boxing round style of scoring taking a planet.

Most victories in a sector per hour gives the control to that faction tabulated at the end of the hour.

Ghost drops count as 0.25 of a victory.

Planetary victory is tabulated by which faction controls the most territories at the end of the hour based on victories in that hour. Each sector held counts as 1 point, most points wins the hour.

After 12 victories are calculated for the day, the planet switches control. After 17 victories, the planet changes hands and the algorithm moves.

Ceasefire takes place at noon Pacific time (PGI's home time) and lasts for 1 hour
Held planets start after the cease fire where they left off in control of a sector. (so if 15 sectors are controlled, the controlling faction starts the next day with the same amount of territories till the planet is taken) New planets start 100% in defenders hands.



What this does is take the direct influence out of single unit and battle control. The same way a single punch in boxing doesn't generally decide a fight through the 15 rounds.

It makes all hours valuable during the day because points are time based and a point at 2am is just as valuable as a point at 11am (if using the noon Ceasefire).

Victory cannot be reversed by spamming a planet with units in a blitzkreig in the last 2 hours by ghost drop, moderating the flow of battle to be spread out and more accomodating for player's lifestyle and preventing an overwhelm by a larger population faction.

It slows down the pace of war so instead of a thrice daily change cycles it is a once daily cycle and condusive to a weekly pattern to help prevent burnout. It also gives players a feeling of scale in taking a world.

A daily and weekly pattern is more in tune with real life for players who are not able to play this game 24/7 and contribute far more effectively.

It eliminates dead phases completely.

Smaller planets can have fewer attack sectors and this won't speed up or slow down the rate of capture. It will only intensify the fighting on that world with the easier ability to get contests.

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I've proposed this before, and really wish that PGI would consider it.

Edited by Kjudoon, 11 March 2015 - 08:33 AM.

[GrizzlyViking]

MechregSurn, on 11 March 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

So in effect, you are asking that each planet have different lengths for a day? Twenty four hour day cycles are standard, but some planets rotate at different speeds, so they should have different cease fire schedules.
Each planet then gets a rotation time property and ceasefires occur x times a day but based on a variable day length.
This may not solve time zone issues per say, but there would always be planets approaching cease fire in every time zone.

That's is an interesting idea! I am not necessarily recommending anything specifically. The intent of this post is to get people to think outside the box and come up with new good solutions for the time limitation issues of the current system.

[GrizzlyViking]

Kjudoon, on 11 March 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

Attack phases need to be thrown out entirely and go to a 24 hour clock and base victory off of a boxing round style of scoring taking a planet.

Most victories in a sector per hour gives the control to that faction tabulated at the end of the hour.

Ghost drops count as 0.25 of a victory.

Planetary victory is tabulated by which faction controls the most territories at the end of the hour based on victories in that hour. Each sector held counts as 1 point, most points wins the hour.

After 12 victories are calculated for the day, the planet switches control. After 17 victories, the planet changes hands and the algorithm moves.

Ceasefire takes place at noon Pacific time (PGI's home time) and lasts for 1 hour
Held planets start after the cease fire where they left off in control of a sector. (so if 15 sectors are controlled, the controlling faction starts the next day with the same amount of territories till the planet is taken) New planets start 100% in defenders hands.



What this does is take the direct influence out of single unit and battle control. The same way a single punch in boxing doesn't generally decide a fight through the 15 rounds.

It makes all hours valuable during the day because points are time based and a point at 2am is just as valuable as a point at 11am (if using the noon Ceasefire).

Victory cannot be reversed by spamming a planet with units in a blitzkreig in the last 2 hours by ghost drop, moderating the flow of battle to be spread out and more accomodating for player's lifestyle and preventing an overwhelm by a larger population faction.

It slows down the pace of war so instead of a thrice daily change cycles it is a once daily cycle and condusive to a weekly pattern to help prevent burnout. It also gives players a feeling of scale in taking a world.

A daily and weekly pattern is more in tune with real life for players who are not able to play this game 24/7 and contribute far more effectively.

It eliminates dead phases completely.

Smaller planets can have fewer attack sectors and this won't speed up or slow down the rate of capture. It will only intensify the fighting on that world with the easier ability to get contests.

<><><>

I've proposed this before, and really wish that PGI would consider it.

I want to better understand your idea...it sounds promising. Does this model still require PGI to dictate which planets can or cannot be attacked? If not, can large factions attack as many planets as they want or is there some way to balance the number of planets in play each day?

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 11 March 2015 - 08:46 AM.

[Kjudoon]

GrizzlyViking, on 11 March 2015 - 08:45 AM, said:

I want to better understand your idea...it sounds promising. Does this model still require PGI to dictate which planets can or cannot be attacked? If not, can large factions attack as many planets as they want or is there some way to balance the number of planets in play each day?

Either. They can keep the algorithm or chuck it for where it moves next. It just locks a planet till it's decisively won. (held by a faction for 17 hours in a day.)

Since a faction has multiple planets to attack or defend, once they have a planet wrapped up (which will take coordination across the world, once it's taken or defended,) they can move their forces elsewhere to help or focus on another planet to either get it into the "Held" catagory of 12-16 hours,

I suppose what this does is flip the importance of the early hours from worthless, to very important because if you can blitz a planet out of the ceasefire, and turn all it's sectors for your faction, it's up to your opponent to turn them back. Players with different primetime play become more important and aren't forced into an inconvenient schedule and still can have important contributions to the game, even if they only were able to do 6 ghost drops and turn those territories while people were asleep or focusing elsewhere.

Remember, it's based on hourly victories (most # of territories held that hour based on most victories in that sector that hour)

Of course though, undefended sectors with even a single ghost drop on them after 1 hour flip the other way. This means a single hour of play by a group in normally a dead time can reverse the fortunes of war on that unguarded planet if left uncontested, but these are easily reversed by a vigilant faction.

This same method can be used even if we go to multiple planet fronts OR if players get a say in what's attacked next.

Edited by Kjudoon, 11 March 2015 - 09:01 AM.

[Tasker]

Hmm. Interesting suggestions.

Also suggest perhaps allow team to win battle if last mech power down and hide successfully for full 30 minutes? Ha ha.

Edited by Tasker, 11 March 2015 - 09:14 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Tasker, thank you for inspiring me to finally do what I should have done weeks ago. I will have much more peace because of it.

Oh, and I got what I wanted out of that match, yes indeed. Something I couldn't get any other way, except by watching you and then doing a bit of tracking. Couldn't manage what I did in my Orion at that time, so I had to switch out.

My best joy out of that whole match was denying your unit the last two kills since you had so handily won that against a bunch of pugs.

:::bows 0.5 degrees and walks away:::

Edited by Kjudoon, 11 March 2015 - 09:36 AM.

[Tasker]

When best brag is ejecting from mech to deny kills, think might need to try different game. Hear yahoo.com have very nice game section for fun online play. Checkers an old favorite. King me!

[Paul Inouye]

About the Cease Fire timing:

We do not want Community Warfare to play so rapidly that the Clans are sitting on Terra within the first week. This is what would happen if you have short battle cycle times for a given planet. It is because of this that there is only 1 planet per border that goes into conflict.

We thought on making it a 24hr cycle to flip a planet. But this caused an extreme case of timezone bias. Depending on the hour you set the flip to, one time zone would always be the deciding timezone. This is why we broke it up into 3 time zones. Each flip happens in a +/- 1hr window around peak player times throughout the day including West Coast Pacific Time, East Coast Time and Oceanic prime times. It's not perfect for everyone but it does allow everyone to participate and have an effect on the progress of Community Warfare.

As for the Daylight Savings Time issue, this is something that Russ, myself and the engineering crew will be discussing in the next few days to determine a solution. Russ asked on twitter for feedback on the issue and he knows how East Coast players are negatively affected by this and is the reason why discussions are going forward on a solution.

[CHH Badkarma]

^^^ this
Prob the only time I will ever agree with this guy

[Kjudoon]

Thanks for answering, Paul. That's why I suggested the "Boxing Round" style of scoring, so everyone around the globe can have an impact, it fits better into everyone's weekly and daily schedule, and puts ceasefire technical stuff firmly in your wheelhouse at your normal patching time. You can't move a front more than 7 planets in a week, preventing the insta invasion of terra or elimination of a faction, and a single unit flipping sides cannot completely alter a front instantly. This could also help in allowing the future addition of multiple planet fronts too as the logistics develop. I should also mention it renders the Daylight Savings Time question moot.

Once again, your input is appreciated.

Edited by Kjudoon, 11 March 2015 - 10:30 AM.

[JamesQ]

@Paul, would Kjudoon's suggestion fix those issues?

Planet capture would occur at a slower pace, lengthening the life of the game before Terra is conquered. It would also open the playing field for players arpund the world without neglecting certain tinezones. Everyone has a chance to help. Timezone bias would disappear.

[CHH Badkarma]

With pgi controling attack lanes and more or less the direction, you can rest assured knowing that the conquest of Terra will not happen anytime soon.

Relax guys. We will not be knocking on your door for a long while

[Funkmaster Rick]

Wait, wait, wait... If PGI is controlling the attack lanes, that means their algorithm has a fatal weakness: we can bribe them with cake.

[Kjudoon]

Consider this a downpayment.

[TercieI]

Make it a 24-hour cycle but you have to "win" in 2/3 8-hour attack windows to take a planet. Best of both worlds.

[HARDKOR]

Tasker, on 11 March 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

When best brag is ejecting from mech to deny kills, think might need to try different game. Hear yahoo.com have very nice game section for fun online play. Checkers an old favorite. King me!

Candy crush is more his speed, then he can grief everyone by sending invites.