46 replies to this topic

[A Large Infant]

fyurian, on 12 March 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

so nova with 12 ML and no ghost heat?
a dire S with gauss and 14 ML no ghost heat again
a ilya with 3 clan gauss
a jager with 4CERML and dual gauss moving 70-85 kph?
how fast can i break the game??

At least 2 of those mechs are still slower and easier to kill than a timberwolf

[ChapeL]

...and now we get to it. This is about the Twolf again huh ?

[J0anna]

With their infinite customization, IS mechs would be completely over the top with clan weapons IF quirks worked on them (which I suspect they won't). Without quirks, IS mechs would be much better than the typical clan mech. For example, my Victor 9K (arguably the worst Victor) has 36 Tons available space with a standard 300 (so no XL weakness) with 480/494 armor. Replace that with an XL300 and you're looking at 45.5 tons available. Subtract 6 tons (to match heatsinks) if you want to, it still has 30/39.5 tons available. My Gargoyle has 20 tons available with the same 480/494 armor. But it does go 20 kph faster, not very useful in the assault class (and climbs much worst to boot).

Currently the Victor is much better than the Gargoyle, allowing the Victor to equip clan weapons (and heaven forbid clan engines) and the Gargoyle shouldn't even bother dropping against it. Fact is, if you could put Clan weapons on IS mechs, with their infinite customization, you would probably only see extreme diehards ever using clan mechs. You can't look only at the weapons, the balance is obtained by looking at the weapons on the mechs. Clan mechs (in general) have lower available tonnage for their weight. The exceptions are (of course) the Stormcrow and the Timberwolf - what a surprise, add in good weapons locations and hitboxes and no wonder they are good (the Atlas could beat the direwolf, but XL atlas is normally a no-no).

If PGI never released the Timberwolf and the Stormcrow, then clan mechs would be significantly behind the current quirked IS mechs. The nerfs to clan weapons since they've been released has created a huge difference between the best and worse of clan mechs. Hopefully quirks can close this gap a bit, but that's the reason why you never see the weaker clan mechs after they've been mastered

[A Large Infant]

ChapeL, on 12 March 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

...and now we get to it. This is about the Twolf again huh ?

I suppose a discussion involving Clan vs Inner Sphere can take place without the respective mechs of either side ever being a point of discussion in your mind

[Red1769]

Being against mixed tech doesn't mean we're against the mixed teams in pugland (although having a test or three in puglandia like that would be nice just to gather data, or at least a more recent test than the last one). In fact, I'm not even sure how that relates to the topic at all. As others have said, it'll break balance more than anything, and several others have already stated why. It's also why we fear the coming of Clan standard battlemechs like the Supernova, Kodiak, Behemoth, Kracken, and the IIC versions of mechs that we already have.

Hardlocked equipment, whether for good or bad, is part of the balance act for Clans. How they will balance Clan standard mechs, should PGI look to them, is anyone's guess, but hopefully we'll have a long ways before that happens.

[Sjorpha]

fyurian, on 12 March 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

so nova with 12 ML and no ghost heat?
a dire S with gauss and 14 ML no ghost heat again

IS medium lasers have ghost heat from 6, same as clan mediums.

It is only IS medium and small pulse lasers that don't.

So the nova wouldn't actually benefit, because 12 clan smalls or small pulse is better than 12 IS small pulse even with the GH. Dire with 14 IS medium pulses might be something though...

[A Large Infant]

How does it relate to the topic: You don't mind clan weapons being on your Inner Sphere team. (as long as it is not an inner sphere mech carrying them). And vice versa.

If you think it will break balance, it may move the ceiling higher for the most capable mechs, but it will also make a plethora of wayside mechs much more viable I think

[Trashhead]

IIRC in the Technical Readout 3058 the first Inner Sphere OMNI Mechs, produced by the Draconis Combine, were presented.

Those were able to mount Clan weapons by default (if they could be salvaged from the battlefield).
Only thing needed were the proper connectors (which were pre-installed, afaik) and the necessary Software Interface for the Onboard Computer.

I think should we ever get this in MWO, we should need to buy adapters for the weapons to balance things a bit.
Not sure if the Clans ever mounted IS weapons, but if we want this, this should also come at a price.

But i am tempted to bet real money that PGI will never make that happen.

[Widowmaker1981]

lol, no.

Clan weapons with IS customisation? mixed? so you want to allow IS mechs to run Clan Gauss, and ERMLs, with their hugely better customisation options and IS LPLs and ACs.

Im glad this is obviously not going to happen... Dire wolves with IS ACs? uh oh. Atlas DDCs and Banshee 3Es with dual gauss in the ST? ...

[Metus regem]

Trashhead, on 12 March 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

IIRC in the Technical Readout 3058 the first Inner Sphere OMNI Mechs, produced by the Draconis Combine, were presented.

Those were able to mount Clan weapons by default (if they could be salvaged from the battlefield).
Only thing needed were the proper connectors (which were pre-installed, afaik) and the necessary Software Interface for the Onboard Computer.

I think should we ever get this in MWO, we should need to buy adapters for the weapons to balance things a bit.
Not sure if the Clans ever mounted IS weapons, but if we want this, this should also come at a price.

But i am tempted to bet real money that PGI will never make that happen.

Widowmaker1981, on 12 March 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

lol, no.

Clan weapons with IS customisation? mixed? so you want to allow IS mechs to run Clan Gauss, and ERMLs, with their hugely better customisation options and IS LPLs and ACs.

Im glad this is obviously not going to happen... Dire wolves with IS ACs? uh oh. Atlas DDCs and Banshee 3Es with dual gauss in the ST? ...

I remember reading some where that PGI has this very issue in the pipeline, just a ways off... when that happens, balance will be totally out the window...

[A Large Infant]

Hold on. Inner Sphere mechs are more customizable than Omnimechs?

[Creovex]

Meeso Thorny, on 12 March 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

Would this balance the game?

Nope. Next topic.

[Metus regem]

Meeso Thorny, on 12 March 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hold on. Inner Sphere mechs are more customizable than Omnimechs?

If you are being serious, yes IS mechs are drastically more so.

[Red1769]

Meeso Thorny, on 12 March 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hold on. Inner Sphere mechs are more customizable than Omnimechs?

Um...yeah. Omnimechs can adjust their armor and switch out omnipods for hardpoints/get rid of Jump Jets on S varients and add Artemis (and of course add additional DHS and change weapons), but that's it. You can't switch out engines, some hardlocked DHSs, The Adder's Flamer, Mist Lynx's BAP? the Nova's and Summoner's Jumpjets on all varients, the S-varients jumpjets, can't switch Ferro Ferious armor for endo or add endo. The entire Warhawk's left torso is hardlocked with equipment...

Inner Sphere mechs can switch out engines, add whichever upgrade they want, take out JJs if they wish etc. Only thing each individual varient can't do is change hardpoints.

Edited by Red1769, 12 March 2015 - 02:29 PM.

[A Large Infant]

We will just have to disagree about how drastic of a customization being able to change hardpoints is

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Meeso Thorny, on 12 March 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

We will just have to disagree about how drastic of a customization being able to change hardpoints is

Being able to change your engine is also a drastic change. So depending on your viewpoint, that can range from favoring Clan, to favoring IS, or somewhere in between as a wash.

I tend to think of it as a wash, leaning towards favoring IS, as not all clan mechs have great or differing omnipods with varieties of hardpoints to swap out..

Edited by Mirumoto Izanami, 12 March 2015 - 02:41 PM.

[A Large Infant]

I tend to think of things from a heavy mech perspective so I will concede that an inner sphere mech in MWO can run as small of an engine as they wish for the sake of running LRM100's or A/C40's. Although a clan mech has less tonnage available for weaponry they need less as their weapons are lighter, smaller and more powerful

On the other hand the baby engines in clan light mechs are quite the hindrance

[Novakaine]

NOPE!

[Sjorpha]

I prefer to keep the techs separated, I also prefer clan to be only omnis and IS only battlemechs. Distinct factions are more fun.

Just balance them.

[Fishbulb333]