16 replies to this topic

[nehebkau]

Ladies and beer-swilling, bacon eating shambling mounds of facial hair,

This is not a rant, this is some advice to help players be more effective when dropping in CW. Please DO NOT drop with LRMs if it is at all possible with your chassis.

Why?

First, LRMs are not very efficient at putting damage on a target. If you do happen to get a lock, and hold it for any amount of time your damage is spread all over the mech. When fighting killing quickly is the key and that requires focused damage from focused fire. Think of it this way, in the amount of time it takes you to destroy or disable an assault with an LRM 40, a mech with 2 ERLLs and accurate firing can do it faster.

Second, any organized unit will have an abundance of EMS and AMS. Not only do you have to deal with your damage being spread out over the target, you are rarely going to get a target (in a pug) and even if you do get a target expect at least 50% of your missiles to be destroyed before they hit.

Third, LRMs can not stop an enemy push. While LRMs may be annoying when you are getting hit, any player or team worth their salt will keep UAVs out of the sky and push through an LRM barrage to get into cover. On CW maps there is sufficient places to break lock and Radar Dep. module is so effective that, again, you aren't going to hit anything. In, what must be over 100 matches, i have never witnessed LRMs stopping a rush of any sort (light, heavy, mixed)

Fourth, and most important, you are not taking your fair share of damage. When dealing with Clans you have to accept that you are going to take the first, very heavy, punch. Clans are the big, fat boxer whose first hit will put you down if you down fast. The thing is, after their first punch they have to rest (they run so hot) and then the IS mechs need to punch back while they rest. The thing is, to be effective all IS mechs need to be there to share in taking those large punches (eliminating focused fire). If you are a LRM boat, you are going to be hiding at the back and the damage you would have helped by sharing is now being focused on fewer mechs.

I have kept track of more CW pug matches that i can count and without variance the more LRM boats on the IS side, the greater the chance of losing and the worse the ROTFLOL stomp. You can't push an enemy with LRMs (needed if they are spawn camping you) and you can not hold an enemy with LRMs (needed if you are attacking) -- so just don't.


Suggestions?
Well, an ultra AC 5 + 3 tons of ammo >> LRM20 + 3 tons of ammo in CW if you have ballistic slots. 2 ERLLs + 4 double heat sink >> than an LRM 20 + 3 tons of ammo. Basically any weapons system that has some range to it (medium laser and above) is better than an LRM system of comparable weight.


ASIDE:
I'm not saying that LRMs don't belong in CW for IS -- its just that they can only be effectively used in groups where team-mates builds are adjusted to support the LRMs.

[Klappspaten]

I agree.

Against an unorganized opponent LRMs may be useful, but as soon as you meet an organized opponent a single LRM boat becomes almost irrelevant. If not hurtful to your team.

LRMs can be properly used in CW, but that needs a lot of coordination. You don't just need the LRM boats, you will need dedicated spotters with purpose built mechs who know what they are doing. Keeping an enemy team under the cover of ECM visible the whole time is a tough job and it needs not only skilled pilots, but an well practiced team.

If you don't have that, keep the LRMs at home.

[Molossian Dog]

I piloted a LRM-boat once.

It gave me syphilis.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 15 March 2015 - 09:33 AM.

[WTChance]

Yeah, sorry, I'm going to keep using them when at all possible. Am I being an annoying troll for this? Maybe.

No, not really.

See, I've had four reconstructive operations on my shoulder. I usually play on hotel WiFi. I play on a four year old laptop. All of this factors into an issue of not being able to hold on target very well with a mouse and keyboard.

So, I have three choices.

1. Be utterly ineffective with point and shoot weapons inflicting low double digit damage over four mechs.
2. Use LRMs and while I'm not doing much, at least I'm doing some level of damage. I've had a great deal of time to get used to the screening efforts of my opponents and can compensate to some extent.
3. Don't play.

While option 3 exists often due to my job, I generally pick the lesser evil of 1 and 2 and at least soften a target before my eventual decapitation via cERPPC from farther than I could even see or target.

While this might not meet with the approval of those around me, well, bring a full group next time and you won't have to worry about PUGs like me showing up.

[nehebkau]

WTChance, on 15 March 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

While this might not meet with the approval of those around me, well, bring a full group next time and you won't have to worry about PUGs like me showing up.

I wasn't trying to be mean, I was just responding to the number of newer players who get angry from one-sided matches or people who pug and get rolled and complain about over-powered clans.

I would tell you to join a unit or (go the the FFR hub on teamspeak) -- there are many friendly and accommodating units, like -SO- or 1stH (and many others) who would be glad to have you and would be able to provide support so that your 'meh' LRMs performance becomes clans posting on the forums that you are somehow hacking. I know in my usual group we often have 1 or 2 LRM boats with specific players coordinating their attacks and they are devastating. Usually it involves a fast light with NARC tagging their ECM cover as we all stand back and laugh as the magic-jesus-box mechs run away from its team-mates leaving them exposed while their team-mates turn their guns to the sky searching for a non-existent UAV... BUT

it takes coordination.

Edited by nehebkau, 15 March 2015 - 09:48 AM.

[WTChance]

I would love to join a group. I would have long ago if my schedule permitted it even remotely. That said, I absolutely do try and coordinate over typed responses with whoever I am dropping with and always have at least one dedicated spotter mech in my drop queue to reciprocate the favor. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.

Don't misunderstand, I wasn't saying that I was some jerk who never listens. Well, reads. On Hotel WiFi, I can get audio, or game...rarely both. Instead, I'm saying that I am playing to the strength I have, however tenuous that may be.

I dream of the day that I have a desktop...with an actual separate video card...and a reasonably reliable connection...and a joystick...

Of course, that may be the day that I find out that it wasn't my set-up, but I just really am this terrible. Either way, always happy to absorb a head-shot instead of someone good getting it.

[Jonathan Paine]

For those who absolutely need to use LRMs:
1. Use line of sight
2. Break ECM with TAG
3. Big launchers with Artemis
4. Use BAP

[Abivard]

Jonathan Paine, on 15 March 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

For those who absolutely need to use LRMs:
1. Use line of sight
2. Break ECM with TAG
3. Big launchers with Artemis
4. Use BAP

The best target for LRM's are turrets, lock on, fire an alpha, and switch to next target, the turrets do not move so no need to maintain lock.

[Sandersson Jankins]

I tend to run ER or normal large laser as primary weapons. One two of my mechs, I carry an LRM5 and 2xLRM5 respectively. I find it very useful, as I peek quite often to alpha with all my energy weapons at once for good damage. I can peak the same spot about 2-3 times against average opponents, and only a single time against good ones. Given I have target lock (and there is generally at least ONE foe mech that is outside ECM and being targetted), I can still do damage while hiding and waiting for attention to shift for another alpha peak. Having LRMs does NOT make me more significantly more passive. I'll usually fire them off at about 250-500m as opposed to those that sit back 950m away.

Does this make me scum? I find the very BEST way to use LRMs on any team is to have no more than 1-2 PURE missile boats. If you start getting too many hybrid-LRM builds, you'll lose too much direct fire support.

[luxebo]

Jonathan Paine, on 15 March 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

For those who absolutely need to use LRMs:
1. Use line of sight
2. Break ECM with TAG
3. Big launchers with Artemis
4. Use BAP

Right here is the answer.

And if you want to run Lurms:
Do it on a TBT where you can fire two salvos of LRM 15 in one go. Or the HBK-4J. Rather see a strong LRM striker instead of an LRM atlas with XL or something.

[Sandersson Jankins]

luxebo, on 15 March 2015 - 10:51 PM, said:

Right here is the answer.

And if you want to run Lurms:
Do it on a TBT where you can fire two salvos of LRM 15 in one go. Or the HBK-4J. Rather see a strong LRM striker instead of an LRM atlas with XL or something.

I'm a fan of those two. I'm also a fan of a good pilot running some sort of Catapult with pure LRMs.

Yeah, too many Atlases running around boating LRMs. Makes me go (((

[Molossian Dog]

Lurmishing was always superior to lurmboating.

But you can´t teach that to the underhive. They are happy with peppering hillsides 800m away, because they don´t have to watch it.

[sycocys]

I have no problem with people that want to use one LRM equipped (not a pure boat) in a match so long as they can understand how insanely much more effective LRMs are at 300-600 meters than at the range of them. If you are up in the mix of things dropping lasers and even lrm5s in their face you are doing it right.

I've gotten the response "But omg they can close so fast at that range"

A - that's why you have the other weapons
B - that's why you should be along side your buddies pushing and destroying anything that's moving in

If you have the free tonnage to put a larger launcher in than your mech has holes to fire from and still have effective main weapons - versus clan pilots who only seem to understand alpha strike or bust that constant screen shake is going to destroy every pilot you can lock on to as you push on them.

I'd still recommend srm2s or 4s over lrms since you can salvo them with far less heat and once you learn to aim them nearly pinpoint damage. 4 srm2s on most mechs even without the cd module can pretty well chain fire for eternity, while its not a lot of shake it does a good job of hiding the ac fire you are pumping into them at the same time.

And there's nothing to argue about how frustrating it is to drop with pugs who are on their first mech while everyone else is on their last. Unfortunately those pugs are probably not on the forums, much less willing to take any advice regardless.

[Sandersson Jankins]

sycocys, on 16 March 2015 - 07:07 AM, said:

I have no problem with people that want to use one LRM equipped (not a pure boat) in a match so long as they can understand how insanely much more effective LRMs are at 300-600 meters than at the range of them. If you are up in the mix of things dropping lasers and even lrm5s in their face you are doing it right.

I've gotten the response "But omg they can close so fast at that range"

A - that's why you have the other weapons
B - that's why you should be along side your buddies pushing and destroying anything that's moving in

If you have the free tonnage to put a larger launcher in than your mech has holes to fire from and still have effective main weapons - versus clan pilots who only seem to understand alpha strike or bust that constant screen shake is going to destroy every pilot you can lock on to as you push on them.

I'd still recommend srm2s or 4s over lrms since you can salvo them with far less heat and once you learn to aim them nearly pinpoint damage. 4 srm2s on most mechs even without the cd module can pretty well chain fire for eternity, while its not a lot of shake it does a good job of hiding the ac fire you are pumping into them at the same time.

And there's nothing to argue about how frustrating it is to drop with pugs who are on their first mech while everyone else is on their last. Unfortunately those pugs are probably not on the forums, much less willing to take any advice regardless.

Good advice. On the mechs that I run 1xLRM5, I am in more of a direct fire support role, boating LL or ERLL. I stay at a 500m sweet-spot, then close into 300-200m for an assault. Usually running my BLR-1S, so I'm not able to nimbly withdraw, nor are LL boats perfect for 150m combat. People really don't know how sick 200m LRM volleys are. I always tug on Leeroy's johnson on the forums, but he'll sit up right next to be in an LRM boat, firing at 300m on the same target. Target is nearly always unable to fight me properly due to screen shake, and between us we'll slag him in 20s max.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

hehe OK I share the secret to LRMing.

3xLRM15+Artemis + BAP + Advanced Sensor Range is the magic combination of alpha, heat, clustering etc.
JM-6A and Kintaro Golden Boy are the best for this I found.
Always carry a UAV too!

Russ tweeted that the map name with be shown before dropping.
If so, LRM boats will become viable for the maps with "bore" in their names.
Better in defence not attack, and not so good on Sulfur and Portico.
Maybe just 1 or 2 pure LRM mechs per team is needed.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 19 March 2015 - 09:17 PM.

[sycocys]

Boats won't become viable until there is a hard limit to active ecm on the field. There are 0 counters for 4+ ecm blobs to help lrms, so until PGI decides to deal with the situation (or likely continue to ignore it) please do not bring LRM boats ever.

Support weapon, maybe - main weapon. Please don't.

[Sjorpha]

WTChance, on 15 March 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

I would love to join a group. I would have long ago if my schedule permitted it even remotely. That said, I absolutely do try and coordinate over typed responses with whoever I am dropping with and always have at least one dedicated spotter mech in my drop queue to reciprocate the favor. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.

It sounds like the FRR hub would be perfect for you. No need to join a group to jump in on the coordinated drops there, and opportunity for the FRR mixed groups to adapt to make use of your LRM boat.

Seriously, the FRR hub is the real deal, check it.

For anyone not having the excuse of a bad rig or the like, follow the OPs advice and don't bring LRMs for PUG drops.

Edited by Sjorpha, 20 March 2015 - 03:17 AM.