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Lb 10-X Spread


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#21 Mcgral18

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 12:32 AM

View PostPjwned, on 14 March 2015 - 12:28 AM, said:


Well, when you consider the higher critical chance and the critical damage bonus on the LB-10 X, that does tend to mean more damage to the structure than AC10 deals; you can do as much as 19 structure damage in 1 shot (on top of completely shredding everything inside that component) if you're really lucky.

That doesn't really make up for its downsides much though.


REALLY lucky meaning a 0.00000000006% chance to get all 10 pellets to get a 6% 2.0 damage crit.

AC20 has a 3% chance to deal that IS damage, or 3 damage for each crit.

#22 Cyborne Elemental

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 12:44 AM

Tbh, I never really notice it doing anything special beyond what any other 10 damage weapon does.

LBX may be knocking out weapons once in a while, but not any quicker or more efficiently than anything else.

And If its really doing more structure damage, I don't really notice it, even with autoshotty Cent-D it doesn't seem make enough of a difference.

Always feels like I should have just gone up that 1 ton to an AC-10 and been doing ppfld instead of shotgunning.

Maybe on paper there is something there, but in application and use.. Never really notice.

I used to remember it being pretty decent, watching Dual-LB10x Atlas and Orion terrorize smaller mechs, that novelty just doesn't seem as powerful, not for 22 tons anyway.

Edited by Mister D, 14 March 2015 - 12:55 AM.


#23 Brody319

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 12:49 AM

This topic title is kinda dirty.

I think all the LB-X's need to be reworked simply because they are not good.

#24 Baba Yogi

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 06:18 AM

lbx needs to be the way it was in TT. It's supposed to be a shell shot which splits apart into pellets when it got close to its target. It would fix the inherent accuracy problems completely.

#25 Strum Wealh

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 06:37 AM

View PostXetelian, on 13 March 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

Please tighten the spread.

Its kinda silly that it gets wide enough to hit 3-4 components at once.

The spreading, scattershot behavior resulting in hitting multiple sections at once is the whole point of the LB-X cluster munitions. :rolleyes:

If you want to concentrate damage on a single location at longer ranges, petition for PGI to make LB-X ACs capable of using slug-type munitions in addition to cluster munitions (as they were meant to do), or use the other AC types.

#26 Strum Wealh

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 06:44 AM

View PostLordhammer, on 14 March 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

lbx needs to be the way it was in TT. It's supposed to be a shell shot which splits apart into pellets when it got close to its target. It would fix the inherent accuracy problems completely.

It was never what you're describing (which is called a Shrapnel shell) in TT - it's always been "an anti-BattleMech shotgun" (in the style of canister shot, like the 120mm M1028 canister round used by the M1 Abrams MBT), since its introduction in the late 1980s (with TRO 2750).

#27 oldradagast

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 09:00 AM

Go into Forest Colony on testing grounds with 1 LBX10 on your mech.

Start shooting the stock commando that is standing near the spawn point.

Die a little inside when you see how many shots it takes to kill it unless you're at point-blank range.

Never put an LBX on another mech again.

#28 Deathlike

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 09:30 AM

Seriously, this thread is missing the obligatory "LBX is good" meme.

#29 FupDup

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 09:37 AM

View PostDeathlike, on 14 March 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

Seriously, this thread is missing the obligatory "LBX is good" meme.

Posted Image

#30 Novawrecker

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 09:51 AM

View PostFupDup, on 13 March 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

I said Space Magic™ up above. :P


I was trying NOT to go as far as Space Magic ;) hehe

View PostFupDup, on 13 March 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

Let's not go down the power creep road, because otherwise you'll have to remember things such as TT making all Clan tech directly superior to IS tech in all aspects...


Didn't change the fact that originally, the LB was the improved version of the AC till LAC and different ammo types for the standard AC came into play. Btw, in MWO, clan does have superiority in most (if not all) aspects: Lighter, less bulk, more damage, more range. The only thing different in MWO are the clan AC shell breakdown and the longer burn times for lasers (as well as heat).

View PostFupDup, on 13 March 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

More ammo types didn't even succeed at that mission. Like half of them were gimmicks anyways.


Can say I agree with you as I used to REK stuff w/ in TT AC2/5 sporting AP rounds. However, I'm fully aware MWO is just based off TT, it's not its 100% incarnation and things never translate well from paper to game.

View PostFupDup, on 13 March 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

Plus, MWO can't even handle ammo switching, even if you did find a way to make those ammo types actually good in some way. Just let the AC/10 itself have a bit faster of a cool-down or something.


It's a matter of coding. Just like there is a command to switch ECM from Counter to Jam as there is a command to turn off/on AMS, etc. Aye will take some effort on their part to get it done, but it's not an impossibility.

As for good ammo types for the AC? Here's a couple of concepts that have "possibilities". Though note, none are anything that are game breaking, just minor "add-ons" to the standard ammo that doesn't step on other weapons or equipment in the game.

- Tracer rounds: making a target that is hit easier to spot during night maps (akin to an illuminescent gel that dissipates after a brief amount of time).
- Heavy Impact rounds: increased screen shake on impacted targets.


View PostFupDup, on 13 March 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

A normal AC10 for example actually beats an LB 10-X cluster at taking down exposed internals right now.


So they either messed with the Cluster round crit chance or messed it up. Good to know. Thx

#31 FupDup

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 10:06 AM

View PostNovawrecker, on 14 March 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

Didn't change the fact that originally, the LB was the improved version of the AC till LAC and different ammo types for the standard AC came into play.

Yea, I know how it was "originally," I just don't want MWO to always mimic the originally paths for certain items.


View PostNovawrecker, on 14 March 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

Btw, in MWO, clan does have superiority in most (if not all) aspects: Lighter, less bulk, more damage, more range. The only thing different in MWO are the clan AC shell breakdown and the longer burn times for lasers (as well as heat).

The difference here is that PGI did attempt to change some things. Not necessarily succeeding in all areas, but they made a try at it. Previous MW games mostly didn't bother. More progress can/should be made, but that goes beyond the scope of this thread...


View PostNovawrecker, on 14 March 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

Can say I agree with you as I used to REK stuff w/ in TT AC2/5 sporting AP rounds. However, I'm fully aware MWO is just based off TT, it's not its 100% incarnation and things never translate well from paper to game.

AP was probably one of the ones that were decent...but still, the crit chance decreased as your AC size went down, so the smaller ACs weren't as likely to get a TAC as the bigger ones.

Precision ammo might translate decently as having way faster projectile speed (accuracy).

Caseless would be nice for mechs that have limited weight to install ammo...might actually be the new go-to choice because of ammo explosions being uncommon here.

Those are the ones I can think of for being decent...


View PostNovawrecker, on 14 March 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

It's a matter of coding. Just like there is a command to switch ECM from Counter to Jam as there is a command to turn off/on AMS, etc. Aye will take some effort on their part to get it done, but it's not an impossibility.

I think it was something to do with having multiple ammo types loaded and the game trying to distinguish between which type of ammo to draw from.

The ECM mode switching thing might work, but it probably would need to use a single type of ammo for both firing modes. There wouldn't be slug ammo or cluster ammo, just plain old generic LB-X ammo that could be used for both modes, drawing from the same ammo bin.

For guns with more than just 2 ammo types (like all of the proposed regular AC ammo) then it might become a clusterfudge.


View PostNovawrecker, on 14 March 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

As for good ammo types for the AC? Here's a couple of concepts that have "possibilities". Though note, none are anything that are game breaking, just minor "add-ons" to the standard ammo that doesn't step on other weapons or equipment in the game.

- Tracer rounds: making a target that is hit easier to spot during night maps (akin to an illuminescent gel that dissipates after a brief amount of time).
- Heavy Impact rounds: increased screen shake on impacted targets.

Hitting people at night seems doable enough already, I don't think that would be a particularly good ammo type, especially considering that we have only 1 map (RCN) that's truly dark (Mining and Mordor have alright visibility) and gamma settings can be adjusted... I dunno if increased screen shake would be worth it or not.


In the end I'd just rather nudge the AC/10 cooldown time, as even now the gun doesn't feel that great to use (isn't bad, but also isn't good at any particular thing...).


View PostNovawrecker, on 14 March 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

So they either messed with the Cluster round crit chance or messed it up. Good to know. Thx

It's because of some pellets hitting nearby hitboxes instead of the intended panel, and the fact that a pellet getting a crit only does a little bit more damage. Meanwhile, if a pinpoint weapon like an AC/10 got a crit, it can kill an internal item in 1 hit (most items have 10 health) and it is more reliable at just outright destroying the section without trying to crit components.

#32 Novawrecker

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 10:22 AM

View PostFupDup, on 14 March 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

Yea, I know how it was "originally," I just don't want MWO to always mimic the originally paths for certain items.


In part, we are in agreement.

View PostFupDup, on 14 March 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

The difference here is that PGI did attempt to change some things. Not necessarily succeeding in all areas, but they made a try at it ... More progress can/should be made, but that goes beyond the scope of this thread...


Here too I agree. And still think PGI should continue to try and make progress.

View PostFupDup, on 14 March 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

The ECM mode switching thing might work, but it probably would need to use a single type of ammo for both firing modes. There wouldn't be slug ammo or cluster ammo, just plain old generic LB-X ammo that could be used for both modes, drawing from the same ammo bin.

For guns with more than just 2 ammo types (like all of the proposed regular AC ammo) then it might become a clusterfudge.


All a matter of coding. They can do it, they've just back-shelved this project for yrs now.

View PostFupDup, on 14 March 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

Hitting people at night seems doable enough already, I don't think that would be a particularly good ammo type, especially considering that we have only 1 map (RCN) that's truly dark (Mining and Mordor have alright visibility) and gamma settings can be adjusted... I dunno if increased screen shake would be worth it or not.


As stated above, concepts that that would not break the game. No need to introduce something that automatically becomes staple.

Edited by Novawrecker, 14 March 2015 - 10:24 AM.






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