9 replies to this topic

[MauttyKoray]

This is simply a discussion about the idea. It does not mean it would be implemented soon or even at all.

I like the lore of mechs being piloted underwater on occasions, and wonder who would like to see the addition of this in MWO? Not full underwater maps mind you, but things such as areas of water in maps that allow mechs to submerge?

A good example is in River City there are places where the Locust can fully submerge and combat takes an interest turn. The view underwater is interesting and tactics would see an influx of a new variable. Things such as a deep lake in a map would create partial cover from things like missiles and create a new way to make maps with cover other than raised objects/terrain.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 03 July 2016 - 09:47 AM.

[Coolant]

If it's just the matter of making water deeper and combat being normal as it is now, I'm all for it. But reducing movement of mechs and weapon velocities as well as new animation and graphic fx, then no thanks. Way too much resources would be required. And since the simulation fanatics would go berserk if things didn't behave properly underwater I just don't see it happening.

[El Bandito]

Submerged mechs should by all means cannot fire its lasers underwater. And according to the novel, using JJs underwater will flood the intake and blow up the mech.

Deep water would be a good place to rapidly cool off after an engagement, but heatsinks are generally enough to do the job.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 July 2016 - 10:21 AM.

[Zacharias McLeod]

El Bandito, on 03 July 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

Submerged mechs should by all means cannot fire its lasers underwater. And according to the novel, using JJs underwater will flood the intake and blow up the mech.

This is wrong.

You can use Laser and PPC underwater but no ballistic weapons and missiles.

And it is very dangerous to fight underwater because an open location like an open side torso can take the whole Mech out of action.

You can also not run with normal speed and jump jets are useless.

Oh and of course all weapon ranges are reduced and the sensor range too.

Edited by Zacharias McLeod, 03 July 2016 - 10:29 AM.

[mailin]

Lots of reasons to not fight in the water. But water can and should be useful for two things.
1) Heatsinks become more effecient when submerged. I remember this from lore, and this is why water cooling a computer works so well. (Anyone remember the old VW Beetle with their air-cooled engines?)

2) For concealment, sort of. If the water is only deep enough to barely cover your mech, a submerged vehicle moving any faster than a few kph is going to make a wake. Also, if you are overheating and dive into water, you're potentially going to make a lot of steam.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

under water combat exists in mwo!

locusts can submerge into poopy water and have epic duels of poopy water gladitorial combat!

[C E Dwyer]

Mechs would walk/run slower, if jump jets still work, they would not be as effective (LOL) and you would sink slower comming down, cooling would be better.

Most weapons wouldn't work, as they use the wrong propellant, those that do still work would have ranges and damage reduced.

Shooting in and out of water, should also cause aiming difficulties due to refraction.

That basically is the effects of fighting under water.

Also as a final thought head shots would if piercing the armour, insta kill even if the internals were not critted due to no life support, or I should say the wrong type of life support

Edited by Cathy, 03 July 2016 - 10:47 AM.

[MauttyKoray]

I'd be all for making some drawbacks but as this is not TT, and in fact a realtime video game, should we treat it as such and simply make inspired changes to simulate underwater combat? I understand some people want this to be more of a sim and others more of an arcade shooter, but let's compromise and make videogame realistic decisions maybe?

i.e. some ideas:

improved cooling efficiency if fully submerged?
reduce movement speed (10-20% or a fixed kph maybe?)
reduce sensor range
reduce effective weapon range? (maybe a 10-20% thing as well?)
reduce weapon travel speed (ballistics/ppcs)
JJs/missiles won't work underwater
-reduced visibility is a given depending on the map and water clarity, not really an added mechanic.

What are your thoughts on these? Anything to add or arguments against listed ones?

I think that reduced weapon travel speed would be better than a damage reduction, and I can't agree to the refraction for video game reasons and making MWO too complex for a semi-sim game.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 03 July 2016 - 10:50 AM.

[GreyNovember]

Problem.

Mechs that benefit the most from it will be running around in open water.

Without cover.

Mechs that don't benefit from it stay the hell out of water and don't play that game; instead shooting them from dry land.

Where they have cover.

I suppose hull down energy loadouts would be ridiculous in the water; with the tradeoff that they'd have agility VERY compromised, without any rapid response to a counterattack.

Huh. The last paragraph actually makes it sound like it has a significant risk/reward. So I guess the problem isn't really a design one; just one intrinsic to the scenario.

[MauttyKoray]

Adding stuff like rock formations, plant life, etc into the water to prevent it from being barren beds would be a must for aesthetic sake imo, nothing major cover though.

It should be a risk/reward mechanic imo, the same as running through the open is now but it would create a variation on it.

I think one way to make it viable would be to also reduce the ability for the sensors of mechs on land to detect mechs fully submerged in the water. Thus being underwater still has a risk but it would be like shooting fish in a barrel for those on land. Sort of a 2 way sensor reduction to make sure that it isn't easier for either submerged or mechs on land to shoot one another through use of the target UI?