39 replies to this topic

[dr watson]

Hello now I feel like many of you will want to argue this and please do I want to here everyones opinion. Back to why I made this I feel assaults really struggle out on the field sure you have tons of fire power, tons of armor, and tons of slowness. Sounds like a everyday mechwarrior fatty. But the every day fatty is so damn week against your everyday laser boat meta.

Now I don't care who you are but in a atlas for example you can't really boat weapons so you go out in the field have two laser boat crows. And maby your able to get one but by then your dead any way so what's the point. I used to be a assault only pilot from beta to when clans came out. Now I can only play heavy or medium cause I just die in anyother class.

The assaults has lost its badassness from when it was in beta. Though the only boats you had to worry about then we're the lrms and ppc boats. Both were pretty easy to counter. But since then we have gotten to were it's so bad and annoying like the last time I was on I was using my Kodiak, though I feel their a little higher on the food chain just cause of their good hard points, then again I rolled out stuck with the team did everything an assault is suppose to do stick in the front and take the shots, and oh would you look at that a meta timby with all the lasers in the world. And it almost cored me with one alpha. And yes I tried to shield it with a arm but too late. And just like that the mech who's suppose to take the damage has to lay low stick in the back cause of one mech ,and I have to be extra paranoid because a light could pick me off at any moment. I understand this is a part of the game but you would never see this in the older mechwarriors, idk it might just be me but I feel like we're going further away from what mechwarrior is.

Pleas if the developers or people are reading this we need changed and its not just the assaults but the whole game needs love but I figure one step at a time.and this post might just be me but ching about laser boats, we can't fix boats and no ghost heat was a ******** way to fix the boat issues, but we can fix tankyness. PS don't hate on my grammar or if I spelled something wrong we all arnt high educated people. Thank you

Edited by dr watson, 09 July 2016 - 07:48 AM.

[RolfS]

I think changing how armour works would fix the problem. Reducing damage to zero if armour is much more than what the weapon is making would improve the feel of the game.
Forces players to use small arms against small mechs and big arms against big mechs.

[VitriolicViolet]

I like the Highlander and Zeus a lot my 2 favourite mechs but compared to the Battlemaster or Marauder theres nearly no point in taking them, especially when i can take 3 Black knights, or Marauders, and a locust.

Id say that the Zeus, Victor and Highlander all need some kind of buff otherwise they are simply out done by anything else, for 90 tonners the Mauler is way better than the Highlander, The Battlemaster simply shits on all the 80 tonners and is about the same size. hell the BLR is better than the Highlander too.

They need to try balance the Assaults against each other.

[Koniving]

RolfS, on 08 July 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

I think changing how armour works would fix the problem. Reducing damage to zero if armour is much more than what the weapon is making would improve the feel of the game.
Forces players to use small arms against small mechs and big arms against big mechs.

Boat more small arms = trump the armor.

Boat big arms = trump everything.

In theory its a sweet idea. Sounds like Battletech's BAR (Barrier Armor Rating).
Mechs have a BAR of 10. Mech Weapons have a BAR of 10.
Attack 1 damage = Defender takes 1 damage.
If attack is 10 damage and defender BAR = 10, Through Armor Crit occurs and if rolled, 1 to 3 slots are destroyed, disabling or destroying the equipment hit. PGI would probably make this "10 total damage in one attack to one place." To be honest I'm not sure if Megamek does this based on total damage to a spot, or if the weapon achieves 10 damage or greater. I used to think the latter but come to think of it I'm not sure.
Moving on.
Infantry have a BAR of 1. Mech weapons have a BAR of 10.
Attack 1 damage = Defender takes 10 damage on a standard hit (if 1 guy, if several then it is split between those "hit").

Anyway, if we apply it going for the latter (benefiting just weapons which when one of them is by itself does 10 or more damage), bigger weapons would be more devastating despite the lack of being able to boat as many as smaller weapons. Gauss would definitely be a lot more useful.

Sadly, MWO lacks any weapons with a sub-10 BAR. Furthermore sub-10 ratings are pretty much missing from most mech weaponry. There's the Rifles. They have a 7 rating. Thus... -3 damage when hitting military grade mech armor. Full damage when hitting structure. Then again a weapon with a 5 rating would be -5 damage to armor and full damage to structure. Unless you had Commercial armor, but then again the extra armor points totally make up for the full damage that weapon would do to you. The through armor crits for every body part receiving 5 or more damage, though, would utterly destroy you.

....Don't ask, you made me think.

Edited by Koniving, 08 July 2016 - 03:41 PM.

[Livaria]

Just a suggestion when you are presenting your topic. It helps to make paragraphs when typing, it makes reading easier.

I will also say that I disagree with what you have to say, I think most assaults are actually good enough to play to be effective. There may be a few exceptions such as the Victor. Even then, it's really not all that useless.

Edited by Livaria, 09 July 2016 - 07:12 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

I have next to no experience with assault mechs so i'll remain neutral on whether they are as useless as the OP describes.
But that mechanic Russ promised us could be the key to put a limit on boating. It was supposed to reduce the amount of alphas that can be fired in one match.
If that mechanic is halfassed or worse then....well that will be that and MWO will keep on course to whatever fate has in mind for it.

[dr watson]

Thank you Livaria for your recommendation I will do so to make it easier to read but do you find it just a bit weird, pilot an atlas or any of the assaults that are not mainstream. Just for a whole day play them and see what I mean

[Kalimaster]

I run a Mauler and I enjoy the firepower it gives me. Too bad it can't take a lot of return fire.

[ImperialKnight]

Stop trying to make Assaults do what you want them to do, and do what they're supposed to do. Assaults are the hardest class to play well, but that doesn't make them useless.

And torso twisting isn't some magic trick that automatically transfers damage. If you charge in head first, stare down an enemy mech, trade fire with non-FLD weapons, and THEN twist. Sorry, your CT is going to get blown out.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

I love piloting assaults! And I think they are in a great spot as of now! They definatelly can push their weight around and be the bully of the yard.

You brought up two laser boat storm crows... Then you said you can take one out, but your dead anyway? Well sir, then, they are balanced (or maybe a tad too good)?

This is a multiplayer game. Each player should be just as efficient as everyone else. By your example, you can fight in a 1v2 and still take a mech out. Piloting an assault shouldnt be an auto-win mech. The problem a lot of players have, is they think an assault should easilly win against the worst of odds.

Mechs fighting 1v2 should loose without getting a kill just going by weight of fire.

(On a side note, the following is a broad statement, and not targeted towards the topic creator)
Another misconception many pilots have about assault mechs, is that an assault should be able to crest over a hill during a push and survive throughout the whole engagement. An assault (or any mech) that pushes into a gun line of 12 enemy mechs should be vaporized quickly... Regardless of tonnage... All team mates need to share their armor with the assaults.


edit: please make victors fly again!

Edited by Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, 09 July 2016 - 09:33 AM.

[Livaria]

I have played several assault mechs. Awesome, Highlander, Mauler, Zeus, Gargoyle, Warhawk. Most mechs out of this list I'm happy with. I've even performed better than some mainstream assaults on occasion. A lot of it comes to my own personal skill and experience. I think players aren't considering that some mechs can still be good, but are more difficult to play.

When players buy a mech they often think in a form a question, and that is: What can a mech do for me? It makes sense to ask this question because it's the easiest and most important question to ask. I have a theory that this is all that players tend to be concerned about.

Because of this, players are much less concerned with the question: What can I do for the mech? When players don't think about this question it's becomes very easy to dismiss an under-performing mech as useless, even if they aren't. It takes more thought and energy to make something good and new.

I am probably one of the few people that invests more into making a mech good than most people. Because of that, I tend to perform well in unexpected situations. That doesn't mean that there aren't objectively under performing mechs out there, However mechs can be good if players want to invest more into them.

Edited by Livaria, 09 July 2016 - 08:55 AM.

[Aligertor]

imho the promisse was that every mech could have the same impact on the game.

thats the only reason for players to not play 100t mechs all day long.

for some reason u choose the timing where most lights where nerved hard (rescaling) and kodiaks(3) are the most op mech on the field to post such a thread.

this is not an simulation, where the assaults should shred everything, it is a game that should provide the same fun to everybody.

the question to ask is.
when i play 20 matches in my best assault and 20 matches in my best medium/light, can i carry with both equaly often?

unless u ask this question u are just whining (sry).

[General Solo]

I seen a Kodiak get 1800 damage in quick play yesterday.

[dr watson]

Aligertor, on 09 July 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

imho the promisse was that every mech could have the same impact on the game.

thats the only reason for players to not play 100t mechs all day long.

for some reason u choose the timing where most lights where nerved hard (rescaling) and kodiaks(3) are the most op mech on the field to post such a thread.

this is not an simulation, where the assaults should shred everything, it is a game that should provide the same fun to everybody.

the question to ask is.
when i play 20 matches in my best assault and 20 matches in my best medium/light, can i carry with both equaly often?

unless u ask this question u are just whining (sry).

This is not me whining more or less its me asking the community what they think. And me personally I think they need some work when the game first came out in beta, it was perfect to and extent. Now yes I have done a 20/20 yes and I found I do more damage, more assists, and overall more entertaining. That's me being in a marauder vs me in a atlas.now am I being more usefull for the team yes I think I am more useful when dishing the damage out then just eating it and dieing.

And the whole reason I bring this up is cause I'm a traditionalist from back in the good old days when playing mechwarrior, a battle against another mech was longer and a more patient fight. And a assault was intimidating. Now it's like we'll does it have lots of lasers, yes then back up and wait

Olso I don't care about timing this is a issue that has been going on for over a year. But all in all I just want to hear peoples opinions and they think it's fine like this, then that's fine assaults are just going to be a tougher class to play if you don't want meta.

[Hotthedd]

Perfect instant convergence is what kills slow mechs.

[Nightbird]

The issue is actually the size, the volume of 100 ton mechs when compared using the volume 20-25 ton mechs is actually 200-300 tons. (i.e. 2-3 times the size they should be if tonnage and mech size was scaled according to physics)

I discussed it here:
http://mwomercs.com/...232382-rescale/

Edited by ironnightbird, 09 July 2016 - 04:59 PM.

[SnaFubar1971]

A possible way to implement a "Bonus" for armor on Assault Mechs might be to give percent added buff to armor in the center left and right torsos. For example give a +4% buff for Assaults at 80-85 tons with a 1% increase for each 10 tons heavier. So a 80 ton Victor or a 85 ton Stalker would get a 4% armor buff, a 90 ton Mauler or 95 ton Gargoyle would receive a 5% buff and for the 100 ton Mechs such as the Atlas or King Crab a 6% added torso armor buff.
If it makes Clan Assault Mechs over powered, they can say Clan's don't use this feature because honor says they shouldn't or give clanners option to choose to fight with honor or not so they can turn buff on or off when customizing the mech, give minor XP dishonor penalty (-5%) for choosing to use the armor buff.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

SnaFubar1971, on 09 July 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

A possible way to implement a "Bonus" for armor on Assault Mechs might be to give percent added buff to armor in the center left and right torsos. For example give a +4% buff for Assaults at 80-85 tons with a 1% increase for each 10 tons heavier. So a 80 ton Victor or a 85 ton Stalker would get a 4% armor buff, a 90 ton Mauler or 95 ton Gargoyle would receive a 5% buff and for the 100 ton Mechs such as the Atlas or King Crab a 6% added torso armor buff.
If it makes Clan Assault Mechs over powered, they can say Clan's don't use this feature because honor says they shouldn't or give clanners option to choose to fight with honor or not so they can turn buff on or off when customizing the mech, give minor XP dishonor penalty (-5%) for choosing to use the armor buff.

Many assault mechs already have structure quirks which give them an increased amount of survivability.

[InspectorG]

dr watson, on 08 July 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

Pleas if the developers or people are reading this we need changed and its not just the assaults but the whole game needs love but I figure one step at a time.and this post might just be me but ching about laser boats, we can't fix boats and no ghost heat was a ******** way to fix the boat issues, but we can fix tankyness. PS don't hate on my grammar or if I spelled something wrong we all arnt high educated people. Thank you

Problem with 'balance' is MWO is a game of COMBINED fire.

Wait for the Power Draw-30pt damage cap thing to be implemented.

Because as it stands, Assaults arent that bad now, its the lights that suffered.

IMO:

Assaults need more HP AND an agility(not speed) nerf. Boost structure to maybe +5-100 per component.

Heavies need an agility nerf.

Lights and low-end Mediums need an agility buff. Volumetric re-scale made ST on lights bigger targets now.

[Aligertor]

@dr watson

dr watson, on 09 July 2016 - 11:25 AM, said:

This is not me whining more or less its me asking the community what they think. And me personally I think they need some work when the game first came out in beta, it was perfect to and extent. Now yes I have done a 20/20 yes and I found I do more damage, more assists, and overall more entertaining. That's me being in a marauder vs me in a atlas.now am I being more usefull for the team yes I think I am more useful when dishing the damage out then just eating it and dieing.

And the whole reason I bring this up is cause I'm a traditionalist from back in the good old days when playing mechwarrior, a battle against another mech was longer and a more patient fight. And a assault was intimidating. Now it's like we'll does it have lots of lasers, yes then back up and wait

For me it seems u r more victim of the power creep instead of a actual imbalance.
There are assults that dish out tons of damage. Just read the other posts about the kodiaks. there is no doubt that this thing can shred whole teams appart.
I have to agree with u that there are also assults that go out and die. at least it feels like it from an assault player perspecctive.
There is no doubt that certain chassis need some love. In particular those that exist for like 10 power creep steps and never got buffed.
But on the other hand this problem exists in every weight class. I dont run a commando and then try to make a judgment about lights at a whole.

dr watson, on 09 July 2016 - 11:25 AM, said:

Also I don't care about timing this is a issue that has been going on for over a year. But all in all I just want to hear peoples opinions and they think it's fine like this, then that's fine assaults are just going to be a tougher class to play if you don't want meta.

I cant exept your timing answer fully. Assaults are indirectly buffed by the lights nerv. Lights are basicly not able to jump on an assault and core it out from behind as easy as before. Which increases the assults survivabiilty by a huge margin.

On the other hand you are right, assults are the least forgiving class in the game. A lot of the non meta assaults are very slow and once engaged u can only rely on our team to not let u down.
The problem with "i need an assult that can take 2 on his own because i ussually got abandoned by my teammate" is that an assult that got not abandoned by his teammate and doing a 2v2 instead would be unbeatable.

I agree that giving them more armor/structure would help them surviving longer and beeing less of a "i just die" choice.
But u cant have a mech with 4 uac10 on high mounts at the same time. If u want them to tank more u also have to cut their damage otherwise they are just better.
But thats more changing the game but buffing a weight class.

Buffing something because you cant play it in "bad" teams doesnt look like the way to go. Balancing has to be judged in a high skilled environment or u just create imbalance that will be abused by some of the better players/teamplayers and will make u cry even more.

Edited by Aligertor, 11 July 2016 - 06:18 AM.