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Improper Mech Scaling & A Financial Solution


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Poll: Mech Scaling (63 member(s) have cast votes)

Would you buy more Mechs if they were properly scaled?

  1. Voted Yes. (53 votes [84.13%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 84.13%

  2. No. (10 votes [15.87%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.87%

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#1 Norris J Packard

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 01:36 PM

An open letter to PGI,

Hello PGI. It's been over half a year now since I've pretty much stopped playing, but in order to make a point I've come back recently and played a few games. I know that you're intent on releasing the Griffin and the Wolverine on the same scale as the Shadow Hawk; which was in turn based on the Kintaro. I would caution against this idea, and would instead devote my time and energy to a different path. One that could, for all intents and purposes, drum up further sales and still works within your current financial model.

Posted Image


For the record I am not 100% up to date on your release schedule for the upcoming Mechs, but I remember hearing that you intend to release the Phoenix Mechs over the next several months in the CBill/MC versions for non-Phoenix players, followed by the Griffin and Wolverine. This is actually a pretty great strategy, it should give you 4 months of time in which you can work on other things while you re-release content that you've already generated. Four months where you can focus on the much awaited community aspects of the game, but if I could direct your attention towards something that's a much larger problem that directly effects the core of MWO's gameplay. And that's the scaling.

Posted Image

(I apologize but I cannot remember who created this image, if you know, please tell me.)



Like I said before, I would caution against releasing the Wolverine and the Griffin on the size of the Shadow Hawk, and this is simply because of the numerous errors made in regards to scaling for the majority of the Mechs in MWO. As you can see, the above image (albeit is slightly outdated) shows how each Mech should be sized in proportion to the other. I will also casually mention that these sizes are inherently wrong since the Mechs themselves are wrong. They cannot fit a standard human model, the pilot model itself is significantly smaller than the average human in the CryEngine and often (especially in the case of the smaller Mechs) he doesn't even occupy an area within the Mech since the model cannot fit anyway. But this is an aside, so let me pull back to the topic. The below image will exemplify just what I mean...

Posted Image


As you can see, there is some extremely inconsistent scaling going on. 55 ton Mechs that are the size of 70 ton Mechs. 85 ton Mechs that are smaller than 60 ton Mechs. Inconsistency is really the only word that can describe what is going on here. Now PGI, I know that your economic model is based around people purchasing MC. So long as people keep buying MC, you can keep making the game. That's okay, that's completely acceptable to me, I've never criticized MC as a way to generate income for your studio. But while I have not personally played MWO in a very long time (aside from yesterday) I have kept my ear to the ground and have watched the past six months roll on by. I know that you haven't had an Hero Mech sell as good as the Heavy Metal in a long time, the Protector came close, but even after all this time the Ilya is your best selling Hero Mech. I've seen you openly state this. So! As for my suggestion...

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Take a month off from creating new Mechs and new Hero Mechs. Stop all major production besides what you need to do in order to make sure that the Wolverine and Griffin come in on time. Devote a month, a quarter of the 4 months you should have freed up, to the rescaling of your current Mech lineup. This does two positive things, it accurately scales Mechs that need to be larger/smaller so that they actually fit their intended tonnage. You're using the Kintaro as a Metric for the other 55 tonners, but the Kintaro itself is woefully out of place. Having all of the Mechs on the same metric is a wonderful thing. Secondly, this change will most certainly drum up sales. People will actually want to buy the YLW, the Golden Boy, the Protector, the Dragon Slayer, and the inevitable future Quickdraw Hero Mech. I've seen month after month of people complaining about hit boxes on the newly released Mechs, but altering the locations of the hitboxes can only do so much when your Quickdraw is larger than some Assaults. Squashing these unusually King Kong sized Mechs makes them more viable by default, meaning customers are willing to spend more MC and CBills on them in order to experiment, which means fewer cases of buyer's remorse (Golden Boy).

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I think everyone here would like to use some of the Mechs that they honestly cannot use outside of the low end of the ELO spectrum. And I think that you want to make as many Mechs enjoyable and fun to use. If you do this, I promise you that more people will buy Mechs, and more people will have fun piloting Mechs previously portrayed as lepers and lemons.

- Norris

Edited by Norris J Packard, 21 October 2013 - 01:59 PM.


#2 CDLord HHGD

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 01:57 PM

I'd like to see some very distinctive height ranges for the different weight classes. There shouldn't be a single Light taller than a Medium (even the Cicada), and no Medium taller than a Heavy (though some close equalities for squat torsos like the Dragon), and same between the Heavies and Assaults. With the exception of Light mechs, only the heaviest of a weight range should be near equal in height to the lightest of the next weight class.....

Edited by cdlord, 21 October 2013 - 01:58 PM.


#3 Vassago Rain

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 02:04 PM

Mech scaling has been a joke forever.

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#4 Wrenchfarm

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 02:16 PM

Absolutely. If they took some time to get their scaling in order it would save them so many future headaches.

#5 Norris J Packard

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 02:45 PM

View PostVassago Rain, on 21 October 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Mech scaling has been a joke forever.

Posted Image


Now, now Vass.

#6 BillTheTurnip

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 04:17 PM

Its never going to happen, they wont do anything that makes sense.

#7 Rather Dashing

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 05:33 PM

IF MEDIUM MECHS, IN PARTICULAR, WERE REASONABLY SCALED I PROBABLY WOULDN'T FEEL SO HELPLESS IN A CENTURION WHEN I GO OUT ON DROPS.

IT'S TOO DAMN BIG, MEDIUM MECHS IN GENERAL ARE TOO DAMN BIG. THE JENNER, HUNCH, CATAPULT, AND ATLAS SCALING WERE FINE, THEN EVERYTHING AFTER THAT JUST WENT CRAZY OUT OF PERSPECTIVE.

A SHADOW HAWK BEING THE SIZE OF A VICTOR IS JUST CRAZY. WHAT WERE THE MODELLERS THINKING?

Edited by Rather Dashing, 21 October 2013 - 05:34 PM.


#8 Kyogiri

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 07:09 PM

Yes I would enjoy this game much better if they scaled the mechs. I mean some of the mechs are way out of scale and would make some mechs more viable.

#9 Zylox

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 11:33 PM

The Shadowhawk looks ridiculous. I can't believe that it made it into production this way.

#10 Norris J Packard

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:19 PM

View PostZylox, on 21 October 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

The Shadowhawk looks ridiculous. I can't believe that it made it into production this way.


And it should be possible to fix.

#11 Felio

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:45 PM

The longer they put this off, the more mechs are added, the more impossible it becomes. It's just something they are going to have to do for the long-term health of the game.

They can tweak torso twist range, they can tweak engine caps, they can even tweak hitboxes, but it's like treating a sucking chest wound with cough syrup.

#12 Ghogiel

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:39 AM

Mediums are fine

Weight limits cured world hunger and give mediums a role

SHD are big because they big stompy robits

#13 Just wanna play

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 07:38 PM

imo they also need to think a bit about weapon models and how big certain parts of a mech became in order to fit then compared to how big they actually are in game EX: hunchback has....a hunch to fit an ac20/ac10 and such to fit it in the side torso BUT if you have basically any mech EX: black jack, shadow hawk, raven, trebuchet and put an ac20 where it originally wasn't, you barely even get a size increase, i mean the black jack has an ac2 barrel on it for gods sake where the ac20 is because an ac20 is bigger then the arm!! and that might not sound that bad, until you think about it and realize that the hunch back has a large hit box for ones side of its body that allows one to easily disarm it while anything else (looks at ac20 raven) doesn't really get any hi box changes except maybe a bigger (if the barrel fits, if not instead of not allowing it why would you just give it a smaller hit box!?!?!) and this brigs me to another mech and weapon. recently you have shrunken the pc to very small proportions but...what about the mechs that had big limbs intended to carry the ppc that was a lot larger? think about the awesome, ppcs are tiny now but its very wide because of the weapons that are twice as big as the same dam thing on basically everything else, and the catapult k2 now has large arms for no reason, same with missiles, how can you fit an lrm 20 on a commando and keep the hit box the size of an srm6 when catapult c4s have giant ears to fire those things? i understand the commando has less tubes but where the heck is the rest of the launcher??




im sorry but if a mechs limb is smaller then the actual barrel of the gun, don't give it a smaller gun and give a mech dedicated for that weapon the middle finer, either increase the size of the limb or dont let it carry that weapon!!! although if they were to make variants for the acs maybe smaller limbs/mechs could use acs that longer bursts of smaller shots while hunch backs and such could use regular one shot ones, do some thing to make this BS balanced PLS

Edited by Just wanna play, 02 December 2013 - 08:18 PM.


#14 MrEdweird

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 06:44 AM

Although I'm all up for a few size changes here and there, it seems to e they're just using size as a balancing measure to augment the mechs' roles. I don't mind my Quickdraw being so huge because it is extremely fast and maneuverable.

Can you imagine how overpowered the Shadowhawks will become if they make them the size of a Hunchback?

#15 Just wanna play

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 06:50 AM

shadow hawk is special, can take more damage then cataphract, that mech just has something wrong with it, but think about the other mechs mentioned like the cent

#16 Diego Angelus

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 09:33 AM

View PostJust wanna play, on 30 November 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

imo they also need to think a bit about weapon models and how big certain parts of a mech became in order to fit then compared to how big they actually are in game EX: hunchback has....a hunch to fit an ac20/ac10 and such to fit it in the side torso BUT if you have basically any mech EX: black jack, shadow hawk, raven, trebuchet and put an ac20 where it originally wasn't, you barely even get a size increase, i mean the black jack has an ac2 barrel on it for gods sake where the ac20 is because an ac20 is bigger then the arm!! and that might sound that bad, until you think about it and realize that the hunch back has a large hit box for ones side of its body that allows one to easily disarm it while anything else (looks at ac20 raven) doesn't really get any hi box changes except maybe a bigger (if the barrel fits, if not instead of not allowing it why would you just give it a smaller hit box!?!?!) and this brigs me to another mech and weapon. recently you have shrunken the pc to very small proportions but...what about the mechs that had big limbs intended to carry the ppc that was a lot larger? think about the awesome, ppcs are tiny now but its very wide because of the weapons that are twice as big as the same dam thing on basically everything else, and the catapult k2 now has large arms for no reason, same with missiles, how can you fit an lrm 20 on a commando and keep the hit box the size of an srm6 when catapult c4s have giant ears to fire those things? i understand the commando has less tubes but where the heck is the rest of the launcher??




im sorry but if a mechs limb is smaller then the actual barrel of the gun, don't give it a smaller gun and give a make dedicated for that weapon the middle finer, either increase the size of the limb or dont let it carry that weapon!!! although if they were to make variants for the acs maybe smaller limbs/mechs could use acs that longer bursts of smaller shots while hunch backs and such could use regular one shot ones, do some thing to make this BS balanced PLS


this post and ops are very reasonable and these things should be fixed first before they add any other mech into the game because as its already said problem will get bigger and bigger.

#17 LoneUnknown

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 09:32 AM

I remember this discussion waaay back in closed beta. The maps have always been out of scale and have been a source of "immersion killing" by giving no consistent, human scale frame of reference. The mechs continue to be added with varying haphazard scales with no regard for previous designs. Heck, stop and look at the cockpits from a light and a heavy/assault then compare them. Either the heavy seats a relative giant or the light seats a relative dwarf.

Anyway +1 because I always wanted this issue to be addressed.

#18 Jin Ma

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 04:00 PM

Thanks for continuing the good fight

http://mwomercs.com/...-and-quickdraw/

#19 Colonel Fubar

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 04:44 PM

What was PGI reason for the off-scaling...We don't want the trees and bushes to look out of proportion. Well, whatever the reason the MWO universe should be as realistic as possible. ;)

#20 Just wanna play

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:39 PM

perhaps they will make things like the daishi twice the size of an atlas for balancing? lol





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